During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Alright, got another candidate from an Obscure RPG game. It's a bit weird but I think he could make it and explain what he has done nonetheless. And yeah, MASSIVE SPOILER AHEAD!!!!!!!!!! As this character appeared in the end of the game.
What's the Work
So the work name here is an RPG game called The Elevator Ritual. In this game, you played as Naysilla who is a maid that works for a rundown hotel called The Rainbow hotel. One day, strange things happened in the hotel and that's when Naysilla found a strange ice sculpture in the elevator that contains a frozen person in here. While she was cleaning the elevator, she found a strange note about the Elevator Ritual and then Naysilla performs said ritual and as a result, she was transported into another world which is essentially looks like the Hotel that Naysilla works for but in a much more damaged version and it was surrounded in darkness and a lot of monsters began to roaming around on this hotel. Turns out the another world is more than meets the eye.....
It was revealed at the end of the game, that Naysilla was transported 2 years later into the future by the Gatekeeper after she performs the elevator ritual. And there is one person that triggered this event in the first place and is responsible for the monsters that roaming around in the hotel and this person is the candidate that I will bring today............Say hello to Professor Kumozoru.
Who Is He/What Has He Done
So here's the thing about Dr. Kumozoru.......He is actually a scientist who researched some strange formula with his research team. To this end, he persuaded the owner of the Rainbow Hotel, Mrs. Rozelyn, with a large sum of money in which she accepts. Naysilla seemingly disagree with this for a good measure as she doesn't trust him. When Naysilla failed to persuade Mrs. Rozelyn, Kumozoru tells Naysilla and Mrs. Rozelyn by claiming that his research could help a lot of people and he's just going to find another place for doing his own research. However, Mrs. Rozelyn, who was clearly blinded by money, let Kumozoru and his team do his own illegal research.......
See here's the thing about the research, it was revealed that Dr. Kumozoru asked his research team to spread the strange formula that he and his team researched through every air conditioner in every room in the hotel and as a result, a lot of people in the hotel turned into a monsters which Kumozoru takes it as a good news to him because he wanted to create a new era of human evolution and tries to unlock a hidden potential within each of them. When Mrs. Rozelyn found out about this, she calls him out and tells him that she was been tricked all along by Kumozoru that claims that his formula won't cause any problem. When Rozelyn asked Kumozoru to turn the monsters back into humans, he simply refuses and as a result, Mrs. Rozelyn then takes the formula and then tries to destroy it from preventing further chaos. However, when Kumozoru tries to stop Rozelyn, she then throws the formula into Kumozoru. And as a result, he then turned like half-human half spider like creature and then tries to attack Naysilla and Mrs. Roze when they tried to escape the hotel and seeks help. However, only Naysilla that ended up escaping thanks to Mrs. Rozelyn's help but she ended up getting cold in the elevator.
Later in the end of the game when the current Naysilla that we played as came back to her own timeline, she was on the hotel clinic where other employees found her asleep in the elevator. Naysilla was advised by Mrs. Rozelyn to take a rest for a little bit......However, in this clinic, he met with a familiar individual who happens to be a doctor of the clinic. He also asked the strange stain that Naysilla had in her own shirt in which she doesn't know about all of it. And as a result, he performs a research on the strange substance with his research team and asked Naysilla to rest well and calls himself Dr. Kumozoru........Much to Naysilla's surprise.........Starting the madness all over again
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
None that all given. He claims that he's doing his own research for the benefit of humanity but this all just a bullshit excuse that he spews and in the end of the day, doesn't care if people were turning into a monster or not as he calls it a step forward for human evolution. So yeah, in the end of the day, the doctor is just a sociopath who only cares about his own experiments. The only thing that could prevent him is the Gainax ending that the game had but it doesn't hold up as it will starts the madness all over again.
Heinous Standard
Sets it! And as far as the lethal consequences goes, we see that the hotel got damaged badly and many monsters roaming around and mostly tries to kills the protagonist when she embarks on her journey. Sure, not all of them all bad and still had their humanity traits left inside them but still, a lot of them just become a full monster who can't control their emotion soooo yeah.....And yeah, when Dr. Kumozoru became a monster, eh....He just tries to kill the main protagonist and kills someone who tries to cure him. And fortunately when the mutated version of Dr. Kumozoru tries to kill the main protagonist, Mrs, Rozelyn who turns into a werewolf stops him and then lets Naysilla to the elevator to perform the ritual again to go back into the present time sooo yeah....
Final Verdict
He's an easy keep in my book. But I understand you guys will be confused given the ending that this game had. But I'll let you guys decide about him qualifying or not.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."The Gainax Ending doesn't bother me so much as the loop means the plot is essentially the doctor doing evil things, the protagonist suffering and then it all repeating. Does the game have a plot beyond bad stuff happening to people?
Alright, just one more thing that gives me pause. In that clinic at the end, he's what? A completely normal doctor prior to discovering the substance?
edited 12th May '18 5:52:14 PM by 43110
@43110 Of course. The game has plot as its about Naysilla trying to get out of the situation and yes, not all the monsters that she encountered are bad people as there is a monster who either tries to help Naysilla or saving her from trouble and believe it or not, there is another monster who took care of little children who lost their parents or there is a side quest when a monster asked you to write the letter for his lover. And it actually started with Naysilla doing some daily things in the hotel itself and also, since Mrs. Roselyn regrets that she didn't listen to Naysilla in the first place about Dr. Kumozoru and then tries to defend her from trouble.... Yeah, that's something. And then there's this mysterious guy called The Gatekeeper who also tries to help Naysilla got back into her timeline...... So yeah, game has enough plot to save it
edited 12th May '18 5:48:34 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Kimura, the arch-enemy handler of X-Men character, X-23. Kimura is a sadistic psychopath with a Slasher Smile, who gleefully beat and tortured Laura from the moment her claws were bonded with adamantium (which was done when she was seven years old). Even when Laura successfully returned after a mission in which Zander Rice left her for dead, Kimura tortured her for no other reason than making him a liar. She has no qualms against torturing others, as well, including Laura's cousin, Megan, threatening to shove her hand through her heart for no other reason than to hurt Laura. She helped subject Mercury to torturous experimentation during the creation of Predator X, and when the Facility managed to recapture Laura during her stint on X-Force, Kimura went to work on her with a chainsaw as punishment — including hacking off her left arm for "being a bad girl." Laura outright calls Kimura the only person she fears, and despite having dealt with some very reprehensible people, Kimura was still to date the sole exception to Laura's choice to no longer kill. Her Freudian Excuse is that she was abused, bullied, and neglected as a child, but rather than make an effort to heal, she merely used it as an excuse to become a bully herself.
edited 12th May '18 6:33:27 PM by Ambaryerno
Leaning
on Kumozuro. Compensating my last EP with what else? A good ol' Kamen Rider baddie, this time from my favorite season, Kamen Rider Ryuki.
What is the setting? Oh man where we begin with Ryuki. Shinji Kido is an ORE Journal Intrepid Reporter investigating a series of disappearances occuring in his city. In one of these cases, Shinji finds a card deck in the home of one of the victims, transforming into the titular Kamen Rider Ryuki, and discovering that creatures from a mirror universe are behind the disappearances. Not only that, but Shinji is also being forced to join the "Rider War", a competition where 12 other Riders are participating to win so they can get a wish granted. Most of the Riders are simply anti heroes, but a select three of them not so much: We have Sudo/Scissors, a Dirty Cop feeding people to his Contract Monster, Asakura/Ouja, a vicious Blood Knight obsessed with pain and the thrill of battle; these two are already listed as complete monsters, but now it's time to talk about the series' last possible candidate, Shibaura
Who is Jun Shibaura? Jun Shibaura, also known by his Rider persona Kamen Rider Gai, is the fifth Rider to be introduced, and a nasty son of a bitch. The son of a CEO and a seemingly quiet college student, Shibaura is actually an arrogant, sadistic manipulator who enjoys toying with people's lives, and joined the Rider War solely to never feel bored again. A member of the Matrix Netgame Club, Shibaura recreated the Rider War in a game that would send subliminal messages to the players, convincing his own colleagues to fight to death in violent, medieval-like confrontations, all while filming the loser getting brutally killed (snuff films in a kid's show, yeah). Revealing himself as the mastermind behind the death game and the Matrix Club murders, Shibaura steals the Dragreder card from Shinji; threatening to burn it if Shinji doesn't respect him (which would result in Shinji getting Eaten Alive by his Contract Monster) and infects ORE Journal's computers with a virus that would send his program to computers all around the city, effectively transforming the place into a battle ground filled with chaos and mass murder; before he could go on with his plan, he was stopped by ORE's computer specialist, Shimada.
Using his influence to put himself in the position of ORE chief editor, Shibaura treats everyone around him like trash and forces his employees to work like his slaves. In a battle with Ren/Kamen Rider Knight, Ren thinks twice if he should kill him or not, and what is Shibaura's answer? He repays him by almost killing the guy with a fatal blow to the chest, and then mocks him for not having the courage to end his life, stating that if a person is a Rider, then killing is a must. Reality Ensues and Shibaura is arrested for mistreating his employees, but gets out with the help of his father's lawyer, Kitaoka/Zolda, another Rider. When Kitaoka gives him a chance of battle, Shibaura acts like the coward he is and says that he doesn't have time to play with him. Meeting with escaped Serial Killer Asakura/Ouja, Shibaura reveals to him that his former lawyer and Arch-Enemy Kitaoka is a Rider, making him Asakura's next target, despite the fact that Kitaoka had just saved him from prison. Silently watching Asakura holding a group of people hostage (children included), Shibaura's only reaction is to mention how he is impressed by him, viewing the situation as another one of his games. Kidnapping Yui, Ren's close friend, Shibaura forcefully reunites the Riders to make a "Rider Party", so he could have a chance to play the ultimate Rider game. Unfortunately for him, Asakura didn't like being his pawn at all, and gave him a well-deserved Final Vent, ending his reign of terror once and for all.
Mitigating Factors? Though much more prominent than the Starter Villain Sudo, Shibaura is overshadowed by Asakura in terms of sheer brutality. However, in contrast to Asakura, Shibaura was the one and only KR baddie to have been involved in the making of snuff films, and was the only Rider in the series to pose a threat to the entire city.
Conclusion?
, unlike Asakura, Shibaura has no Evil Is Cool in him, making him the series' ultimate Hate Sink.
edited 12th May '18 7:43:43 PM by TheMadCr0w
@Lightysnake We never saw that relationship, however. And as Emma Frost pointed out it certainly didn't last long enough for it to make a difference in her development. Her grandmother also died before her ultimate Start of Darkness. So it's not really an Even Evil Has Loved Ones.
Every time we actually see Kimura in the books, she's nothing but a sadistic thug who revels in inflicting pain and misery.
edited 12th May '18 6:40:03 PM by Ambaryerno
Using these criteria:
The character is truly heinous by the standards of the story, which makes no attempt to present the character in any positive way.
No question. She's needlessly cruel, with no qualms against hurting innocents (IE, using a boatload of trafficked children as human shields in All-New Wolverine to force Laura to surrender) if it gets her what she wants.
The character's terribleness is played seriously at all times, evoking fear, revulsion and hatred from the other characters in the story.
Again, no doubt. Laura establishes quite clearly she considers her The Dreaded, and the threat she presents is always presented seriously.
They are completely devoid of altruistic qualities. They show no regret for their crimes.
She ticks this box, too. While she can be convinced to cut her losses, (IE, the Predator X deal in her sole appearance not related to X-23) she's not the least bit altruistic. Especially when it comes to Laura (IE, Harkins tried to get her to back down when Laura broke loose in X-Force, and Kimura put a bullet in his head). She's positively gleeful when she gets to torture someone.
@Demonduck Sabretooth genuinely loved and took very good care of his mother, yet he qualifies as a Complete Monster. So I would argue that what Kimura did or didn't feel for her grandmother is irrelevant.
edited 12th May '18 6:48:34 PM by Ambaryerno
Dr. Kumozoru
Oh sweet Horror RPG Maker Baddies.
We ask if she have a single loved one. She can be as awful as someone can be, but she had a loved one, she is a
Jun Shibaur
edited 12th May '18 7:21:32 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryYou ninja'ed my edit:
That would disqualify Sabretooth, too, who did love and take good care of his mother, and has also had other women he genuinely did have affection for, even before his Inversion.
None of the criteria on the page main page says Even Evil Has Loved Ones is is a disqualifier.
edited 12th May '18 6:52:24 PM by Ambaryerno
That's a major edit to his character. In his original conception lasting decades, Sabertooth killed and ate his mother. His affection for others never, ever lasted and was frequently revealed as hollow as writers kept returning to Sabertooth being a savage, bloodthirsty murderer incapable of true feeling until Inversion
Now, for Kimura? To punish her, Emma mindwipes her of her grandmother specifically because she is the only thing Kimura loved, specifically to create "a deep void that will cause you pain for a lifetime."
It's a clear cut example of a loved one, as losing her memory fills Kimura with an emptiness and pain she cannot explain. Having a redeeming/altruistic quality is a case for a cut. In a lot of comic characters, we give some Depending on the Writer leeway, but it's part of Kimura's core character.
edited 12th May '18 6:56:57 PM by Lightysnake
Why making someone forget its only loved one is a punishment? I mean, is bad but if you dont remember said person, why you would care?
Hey guys I just arrived in LA so
To all the candidates mentioned during the 5 hours I was in the air.
First up, no to Kumozoru, the ending throws way too much into question with him just acting like a normal doctor until he finds the substance and then just *blam, evil!*
Sabertooth is going nowhere and Kimura is not going up, this comparison does not work.
Also, the Kamen Rider looks like a yea.
edited 12th May '18 7:35:06 PM by 43110
Even Evil Has Loved Ones is a very, very, very obvious disqualifier, and it's a part of the criteria, too. See "No Remorse, No Loved Ones" here, please.
By the way, here's a truncation/edit to Neil Cassidy... specifically altering a line that was needlessly bloated by you, ACW:
- Neuropath: Neil Cassidy, an obsessive, charismatic neuroscientist playing God with the minds of others, willingly destroyed his own personhood to better demonstrate the fundamentals of the Argument, a complex, nihilistic philosophy ruling everything as a mental construct. After graduating from college by the side of his best friends Thomas Bible, Neil was covertly enrolled in the NSA, where he performed immoral mental experiments on prisoners before going rogue to utilize that knowledge on civilians. Neil demonstrates a sick obsession for Thomas and conducts a horrific mind game with him at the center to realign his thinking back to the Argument. Along the way, Neil uses his power over people's brains to have a porn star cut herself to death with broken glass after rewiring her brain to masochistic tendencies; has a business magnate cannibalize a young girl and forces him to enjoy the experience; steals billionaire Theodoros Gyges's ability to recognize faces and drives him insane, resulting in Gyges becoming a serial killer; and torments a televangelist with alternating sensations of divine relief and hellish damnation. This culminates in Neil murdering Thomas's—and possibly his own—four-year-old son Frankie and subjecting both Thomas and his ex-wife Nora to horrific mental and emotional torture that ultimately leaves Thomas broken as a person, all to demonstrate his twisted obsession with both Thomas and his long-abandoned philosophies. Suave, cool-headed, and utterly remorseless, Neil Cassidy took Mind Rape to an art form and left a trail of destroyed lives in his wake.
No alterations to this one, ACW. No added potholes, no bloated sentences or word-swaps, nothing.
edited 12th May '18 8:24:22 PM by Scraggle
In a weird turn of events, Ryuki has another candidate, but... not the season Ryuki, only the World of Ryuki itself. In Kamen Rider Decade, the titular Decade travels to the worlds of the previous Kamen Riders to fight some baddies, buuuuut, these are not the worlds with the same characters from previous seasons oh no, these are new copies of the worlds with different characters, it's confusing i know, no wonder this season is despised by fans. The World of Ryuki offers us a new evil Rider, Kamen Rider Abyss (hmm, at least he has a cool name)
Who is Kamata? Kamata, or Kamen Rider Abyss, is the Paradoxa Undead from the World of Blade. Having been brought to the World of Ryuki, Kamata's first action there was to murder Reiko Momoi, an Atashi Journal worker, with an energy blast, and then assume the position of sub editor and a participant in the Kamen Rider Trial, planning on framing a former journalist, Ren Haguro, for the murder. Though initially appearing to be a benevolent man just trying to find out who was responsible for the crime, Kamata revealed his true colors after Decade and his partners used the Time Vent card to go back on time; absorbing his past-self (which effectively killed him), Kamata proceeded to fight with Decade, giving him and Ryuki the "death penalty" but lost and returned to his home-world, where his behavior got even worse.
In the World of Blade, Kamata associates himself with Hajime, the president of the BOARD Corporation, and assists him in getting two Driver Systems to create the Joker Undead, a terrifying monster that would rule over the World of Blade. Obtaining the drivers from Rider Garren and Rider Langle, Kamata locks them in chains and slowly drains their life energy to make the Joker Card, killing them, and successfully bringing the Joker Undead to life, smiling and laughing while they were screaming in agony. Before he and the Joker Undead could kill even more people, they were both stopped by Decade and Blade himself, who was unable to save his friends due to Kamata's actions.
Mitigating Factors? No excuses, much more villainous than the series' most recurring antagonist and Well-Intentioned Extremist Narutaki, and a Hero Killer.
Conclusion? Decade might be kinda short and meh when compared to other seasons, but this guy was evil enough to kill not one, but two Riders in an extremely painful way,
.
edited 12th May '18 10:45:35 PM by TheMadCr0w
How is he competition? Killing two Riders even if it's in a painful way don't seem too heinous given the franchise
Like miraculous and i have mentioned before, each season has its own HS as it takes place in a different world everytime, and even Decade itself is this, considering he only travels to alternate versions of alternate realities, in which the previous C Ms simply don't exist.
edited 12th May '18 10:59:27 PM by TheMadCr0w

Alright then, don't worry about this post.
edited 12th May '18 5:06:59 PM by Knack