During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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Do you think any of thoose villains like Gauron could could count here. The problem was people listed every single villain on the ymmv page if they counted in there home series, even if they didnt do anything here, So we cut all of them, if there's any you feel count. We'd be fine with an effort-post,
Here's the mess that was there:
- Complete Monster (Dr. Hell and Baron Asura (though they at least pay lip service to Well Intentioned Extremism), Masaki Kihara, Muruta Azrael, Gauron, Haruki Kusakabe, Duke Bergan, Gosterro, Michelo Chariot and the Big Bad of the game, Gu-Langdon Goetz. Also, Rau Le Crueset is also depicted as being a lot more cruel and despicable than he was in the series proper)
- Ja-Mu Dalby is also pretty monstrous. He was at first just a normal fanboy of Al-Van, but once Al-Van got demoted, he takes a swing in Ax-Crazy and becomes even more active and vocal in mass-slaughtering humans, and is unreasonable on the level of Gu-Landon (or maybe even more). By game's end he's at Kefka-levels of crazy.
edited 12th May '18 10:28:04 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I agree that villains from other series can hardly count, when you end up having Super Robot baddies alongside with guys like almost everyone from Gundam, everyone except Big Bad The Man Behind the Man Greater-Scope Villain aren't gonna have a shot
Jua-mu...I think that I can do a effort post for him. He's a nasty asshole, the issue is that he's in a world where almost all major Villains want to Kill All Humans.
And Kihara is awful on his own right, I didn't watch his original series at all, but damn that I hate him as much as Azrael
I can reserve the OV As of Hades Project Zeorymer? (manga is unavailable)
edited 12th May '18 10:37:19 AM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryKazuya, go for it. Also, if you or Lighty wanna help with the 3 from the original generation, that'd be appreciated. I mean, Ephes counts, as an uber-Omnicidal Maniac. Embryo counts, as he somehow manages to be WORSE than his original incarnation (yeah, a CM getting Adaptational Villainy). But the others? I can't speak to that.
Fair enough.
edited 12th May '18 10:43:22 AM by ACW
To be fair, Embyo just got more people to work. He really didn't become worse than his original self
I guess that I'm gonna replay SRWJ.
Oh well, remember the basics Kazuya...
edited 12th May '18 10:45:40 AM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countrySo I’ve been searching through Amazon Prime this morning and found out that there are a lot of odd films that nobody’s probably heard of. So, I’ve decided to look through some of these and see if there are any monsters I can find.
What Is the Work?
Crazed, or Fury: The Tales of Ronan Pierce as it was originally titled, is a 2014/15 ultra-violent grindhouse action flick by Kevin and Michael McCarthy.
The titular Ronan Pierce (who has a gravelly voice that can rival Christian Bale's Batman) is a vigilante Cowboy Cop whose daughter has been raped and murdered, while his wife has been captured by sex traffickers. These traffickers, a global empire led by Hector Luna, have taken over Harbor City, turning it into an extremely crapsack town that makes any Grand Theft Auto city look tame in comparison. Ronan must find his wife while fighting ninjas, misogynists, corrupt politicians, and lots of dubstep music.
While there are some very bad dudes here, only three stand out as incredibly heinous and unique. Here's the first one.
Who Is he?
Damien Logan is Ronan Pierce’s Arch-Enemy, and the one who took his wife. He is the leader of Hector Luna’s sex trafficking ring, where he has women, usually young, kidnapped and sold as sex slaves. He’ll stop at nothing until he owns the city and everyone in it.
What has he done?
Seven years ago, he was Ronan’s special ops partner in the South American jungle on a mission to stop Hector Luna. Logan, according to Ronan, was only there for the pure carnage alone. Logan tried to rape a young woman, but when Ronan stops him and tells the young girl to run, Logan argues with Ronan, runs toward the woman, pulls out a gun, and holds her hostage while promising to rape her, even telling Ronan that his wife is preventing him from having fun; Ronan shoots him in the head in anger. Unfortunately, Ronan hasn’t seen Zombieland, because he should have double tapped. Logan ends up surviving his head shot (even though the bullet went through the middle of his head), and decides to plot revenge on Ronan.
He kidnaps Ronan’s wife and continuously tortures her for seven long years. He sends DVDs to Ronan that contain footage of Logan taunting him for failing to save his wife after all these years. He also sends DVDs of a masked figure torturing her. Logan’s location remains a mystery, with him working with the corrupt Captain Pete O’Malley, who's trying to cover him up.
He doesn’t treat his other women captives well either. He calls some ugly, mocks one for having tattoos, calls one a “cunt”, refers to himself as their god, and tells them that they’re gonna make him a lot of money. He even injects them with drugs, saying that they’re gonna call him daddy.
When Rex Galliger, Ronan’s boss, is captured and brought to Logan, he chains him up along with various other stripper women at his night club (he later escapes somehow); he even has Ronan’s wife trapped under a clear container. There, he promises his anarchist club-goers that the era of the people of Harbor City is over, and that there will be no more rules, or laws, and that this is Armageddon. When Ronan crashes the party, Logan sends one of his men to kill him; when that fails, Logan decides to take Ronan on head-on.
Logan is then shot and killed by Captain Pete (who claims to have never like him).
Redeeming Qualities?
None. He was never a good person to begin with, even before he got shot in the head, and even afterwards, he wants to get revenge on Ronan for something that was his own fault.
Heinousness?
Let’s get this out of the way. There are a lot of scumbags in this movie; most are sexist scum who deal drugs, murder, and plan on raping women. These people often don’t get much screentime to commit these acts, since Ronan usually puts a bullet in their heads before they can really do anything.
Hector Luna is never seen, but even though he’s responsible for the corruption of the city, he does it because he’s mad that Ronan and Logan caused havoc in his homeland.
Logan is not only close to Ronan, but he’s the one who kickstarted the plot, and is the closest thing to a physical main villain of the story.
Conclusion
He definitely counts. Creepy Factoid: The dude who played Logan, Wade Gallagher, died a year before the movie came out.
Also, don’t worry; this movie actually has a plot containing mystery and thrills, and isn’t just a 98-minute cheap gore and edgefest. There's even a scene where Ronan contemplates about how dark the world is, and that there's no reason to fight for it (he immediately gets out of this funk; but at least it's something). The film definitely lives up to its title.
edited 12th May '18 1:06:13 PM by therealjackieboy
It's Spooky Month!
Logan. Special thanks to Demon Duckof Doom for making me want to come back from the dead. Before i EP a candidate in his honor, i'll propose my own candidate, both of which are from horror flicks from the early 80's.
What is the setting? Rocktobber Blood follows the story of Lynn Starling, the girlfriend of a singer accused of serial murder, Billy Harper, who was executed for "his" crimes. Years after his execution, a mysterious figure begins stalking Lynn and killing people close to her, hiding the bodies to make other people think that she is suffering from hallucinations, and worst of all? This figure has Billy's face. Is Billy back from the grave? Was he really executed? Nope, it was his homicidal Evil Twin all along, John Harper.
Who is John Harper? The film begins in Billy's recording studio; after he and his band leave, the only people left at the pleace are Lynn and two recording engineers: Kevin and Mary. John breaks in and slits Kevin's throat, then impales Mary on a coat peg. Posing as his brother, John encounters Lynn and tells her that Kevin has been "terminated", before trying to stab Lynn with a kitchen knife; a security guard finds the two and he (i shit you not) simply runs away, forcing John to go after him. Two years have passed since the incident, John left his own twin brother to take the fall for the murders, as Lynn identified Billy as the killer and he was charged with 23 other unseen murders; Billy was given the death penalty and executed for the crimes he didn't commit. Following his execution, Lynn gathered the rest of the band and created "Headmistress", a tour which would recreate Billy's old songs. In the band manager's office, Lynn is approached by John, pretending to be Billy's ghost. Not satisfied, John follows Lynn everywhere, playing Billy's songs backwards in her presence, or making sick phone calls just to mess with her head even more, but oh oh, The Calls Are Coming from Inside the House; while Lynn and her friend are out, John lures a girl to a hot tub and drowns her.
Returning to the house, John puts on makeup and torments Lynn. Again, Lynn tries to prove that Billy is back for revenge, but no one believes a thing she says, not even her guard, who claims that she is seeing the "invicible man". Lynn and her associates go to Billy's grave, and discover that he is in fact dead; this only serves to confirm that Lynn is losing her mind. The first night of the tour arrives, and John visits Holly, Lynn's close friend, and literaly irons her neck until she dies. Appearing to Lynn once again, John reveals himself as Billy's twin brother and confessess his goal: To make the "ultimate" show, which in his twisted mind, means a show where people are killed on-stage, and her death is his "grand-finale". After chloroforming Lynn and putting her inside a coffin, John prepares the show, disposing of the lead singer and assuming the position, ironically choosing the song "Killer On The Loose". In the stage, John has girls in bondage, proceeding to eviscerate them while singing, beheading the last one and throwing her dismembered head to the crowd; the audience believes that this is all part of the show, oblivious to the fact that people are dying for real. Before John can kill Lynn, he is attacked with an electric guitar, electrocuting him to death.
Mistigating Factors? His only excuse for doing all this is because he wrote his brother's songs, but never got the credit for it. So you kill 25 people, put the blame on your twin brother, and kill even more people after his execution just to make the life of his girlfriend a living hell? Disproportionate Retribution at its finest.
Conclusion? You decide.
edited 12th May '18 1:37:40 PM by TheMadCr0w
So I'm working on the comic de-potholing, and while this entry doesn't need de-potholing, it's a bit too Word Cruft-y:
- Miracleman: Kid Miracleman (Jonathan Bates), as re-envisioned by Alan Moore and John Totleben, is both so powerful and so psychotic that his alter ego, the young and innocent Johnny Bates, resists uttering his transformation word. When Johnny finally does so to stop the boys in his group home from raping him, Kid Miracleman tears apart his assailants and momentarily considers sparing the one nurse who'd been kind to him. Then he reconsiders, lest people say he's "going soft", and punches the top half of her head into a fine red mist. And that's just the beginning: he then rampages through London, creating possibly the most visceral Scenery Gorn in history by massacring tens of thousands and desecrating their corpses by draping their flayed skins from clothes lines, creating a chessboard with breasts as pieces, and making a rain of severed hands and feet. During his destructive rampage, he prefers to mutilate the children in his path rather than kill them outright.
Logan.
I have a question, what counts as Offscreen Villainy? I've asked this before when I was proposing "Ghost", which was highly unsuccessful, but I don't remember the answers, fully. Someone stated that one attempted murder or whatever was enough to establish a pattern in works such as Criminal Minds.
Part 2 of the Crazed baddies.
Who Is he?
Lukas Lodder is a psychopathic Mad Artist who loves torture and works with Logan in the kidnapping/selling of women. Did I also mention he’s a pedophile?
What has he done?
Working with Logan on ruining Ronan’s life, Lodder proceeded to rape and murder his daughter, only managing to get away with it because he had paid Captain Pete to keep the case quiet. Helping Logan kidnap Ronan’s wife, he dons on a mask and films himself torturing her; he has also raped her multiple times.
His introduction has him driving a bus (that has only two kids on it) with random goons interrogating a teenager they dealt drugs with. Ordering the two to get off his bus and torture the teen elsewhere, he coerces a little girl named Lizzy into staying on the bus with him, creepily promising to take her home.
He later sends Ronan a DVD of himself telling him that he has one hour to find his hideout, or he’ll kill Lizzy. When Ronan arrives, Lodder reveals himself as the man behind the mask, threatening to kill Lizzy unless Ronan drops his gun. He tells him about his “penchant for carving up the innocent”. Bragging about how much he enjoyed raping his wife and murdering his daughter, he has one of his men fight and knock Ronan out, with Lodder laughing at the spectacle.
Rex Galliger later investigates Lodder’s hideout to find Lodder carving a chained up woman with his hooked knife while listening to classical opera music. Multiple bloodied women (whom Lodder refers to as his “Harbor City Janes”) are seen in cages begging to be released, and one of his carved up victims is on display, wearing a mask. When Rex aims his gun at him, Lodder calls the caged women “mine”, “work[s] of art”, and “beautiful, bloody toys”.
- “But when toys stop working, it makes me angry. And anger attempts to bring out my artistic side.”
With Ronan all tied up, he threatens to kill Izzy right in front of him, then drugs him up and dumps his body onto his daughter’s grave. Later on after Captain Pete kills Logan, he takes Ronan over to Lodder, who reveals to have put Lizzy in a cage, calling her his "little bunny". He reveals to Ronan that he killed and raped her daughter, getting way too excited about recalling the tale about how he just had to give her “the sweet wet kiss goodbye,” then taunts him about how he was the one who ruined his wife and daughter’s lives.
Rex then shows up to incapacitate Captain Pete, and Ronan shoots Lodder in the knee. The two release the caged women, hand them weapons, and watch as they all beat the shit out of Lodder and Pete. All Lodder can do is shout about how Ronan let his “whore wife” die, and that everyone he knows and loves will die because of him, and that he hopes to see him in the afterlife. He can only laugh and scream as he’s getting killed.
Redeeming Qualities?
None whatsoever. While he is the half-brother of Hector Luna, he never shows any love for him, primarily using his bro’s position as a way to get away with whatever he wants. The reason why he was brought to Harbor City was that Hector wanted revenge on Ronan, and brought Lodder along to ruin his life.
Heinousness?
While most villains here are attracted to women of various ages (primarily teenagers or ones in their 20s), Lodder is the only one in the movie with a sick love of children.
Conclusion
Definitely counts.
edited 12th May '18 1:41:27 PM by therealjackieboy
It's Spooky Month!Took a few hours to check and recheck The New 52: Futures End (which, you know, , but here's my write-down for its main villain.
Who is?
Brother EYE is an A.I. designed by Batman and Mr. Terrific to protect humanity and safeguard humanity. However, in the events of this story it performs a Heel–Face Turn and turns on humanity, infecting it and replacing it with cybernetics. It enters the story with an already heavy toll, having converted most of Earth's superheroes into robotic cyborg abominations and polluted the earth's oceans beyond repair. Those who have not been converted into monsters are either locked up or violently grafted unto less robotic servants like Frankenstein. Upon learning of Batman's plan to pull a Terminator, it decides to strap him to a surgery table and fuse him with the Joker, sending this new thing back in time to do its job for it.
Back in the past, its rise to power is carefully orchestrated by infiltrating Cadmus, exploiting if not outright fully responsible for their own bad things in the story such as experimenting on Earth-2 superheroes. This serves the purpose of trying out its assimilation implants, that gradually and painfully spread like cancer unto the victims. It also strikes a deal with Fifty Sue, a psychopath on her own right but nonetheless a child and shown (tentatively, but still) to be simply misguided, and when this deal falls through it decides to spite her by showing the file detailing her origin to psychologically break her.
If none of that convinces you, the ending reveals that Brother Eye won anyway, greeting Tim Drake with an holographic illusion of a perfect future with Madison kissing him, only to pull the curtains and reveal the dystopia and why it remains alive. Making it a truly dedicated troll at the very least.
Redeeming qualities
None displayed. While there is a possible implication that Brainiac is responsible for its corruption, the dots never quite line up, suggesting that it decided to turn evil for no reason and in any case it turns on Brainiac, suggesting that yes, it has full agency.
Some of its dialogue in the penultimate issue imply a Well-Intentioned Extremist vibe, but it seems like cruel mocking since its take-over immediately contradicts this speech, as does The Reveal in the final issue.
Heinousness
Brother Eye is the central antagonist of the plot so the spotlight is on it. Most other villains are similarly one-dimensional and Brainiac technically has an upstart since it has been committing atrocities for a very long time, but none have as much focus as it has
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From Super Robot Wars Judgment
I think that this need a re-write. I'm also not fully sure if Ja-Mu meets the Heinous Standard.
I played the game, it's fun but...
Ja-mu is in the same world as Gauron, Masaki Kihara, Muzuta Azrael and Rau Le Creused and many, many more villains.
Anyway, this entry is bad. It talks more about how he is a jerkass than about how evil he is.
I agree that Ja-Mu is a case where A villain does get rid of all redeeming qualities in purpose but I'm not sure if he is as awful as Gauron (Another Ax-Crazy mecha pilot)
edited 12th May '18 10:19:26 AM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country