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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#114701: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:06:42 PM

I'll give a "no" to this one but this is the kind of post I'd almost rather not even bother to cast a vote on.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#114702: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:26:30 PM

Kind of counterproductive to cast a vote anyway. But other than that, I will give a "no" as well.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#114703: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:27:26 PM

[tup] Dollmaker. [tdown] to the Doctor though. That creepypasta barely has anything resembling a plot, it's just pure shock value.

Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#114704: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:31:01 PM

Btw I will reserve Cyberpunk 2077 if that is alright.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#114705: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:31:49 PM

I was thinking of doing so, but I'd be happy to split it if you don't mind.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#114706: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:32:12 PM

It's also poor form to ignore EPs, Austin, I'm between a rock and a hard place.

[down][down] Don't overreact at Elfen, he just said if you thought it was worth a shot then go for it. Also, don't worry about your candidate not going up. This is a website that collects devices used to tell stories, if you propose a character fits a particular device and the majority of us disagree, how much have you really lost?

edited 10th Apr '18 10:39:03 PM by 43110

Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#114707: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:32:28 PM

[up] @Lightysnake Sure thing. grin

edited 10th Apr '18 9:33:26 PM by Knack

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#114708: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:43:06 PM

I was unsure of posting that EP, other troper encourages me to do that only to get shoot down.

Just another day in Kazuya's daily life.

I don't mind at all, I'm just a bit annoyed at my wasted fast effort.

Watch me destroying my country
Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#114709: Apr 10th 2018 at 9:49:22 PM

[up] Don't worry about it, the reason why it was shot down wasn't because of anything you did, it's just that meaningless grimdark schlock is a problem that the topic of pure evil characters has had before and it's just that nobody wants to deal with that. Even if it's bad if it has any merits at all it is very possible that it might count. So just try again but with something that at least has a purpose.

edited 10th Apr '18 9:50:15 PM by Knack

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#114710: Apr 10th 2018 at 10:00:52 PM

[up][up] No Biggie. I've got a lot of EPs shot down myself because of the content of the work rather that posting anything dumb(The Interview and Balls of Fury to name a few), but Scraggle helped me better understand what works are conductive for a CM and what works are not so I don't make the same mistakes.

edited 10th Apr '18 10:02:17 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#114711: Apr 10th 2018 at 10:13:57 PM

Yea....... I was the guy who encourage it. But eh, everyone was mistakes so you dont have to worry Kazuya. Hopefully you could get some good candidates in the future.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#114712: Apr 10th 2018 at 10:14:19 PM

Nevermind, I will ask later.

edited 10th Apr '18 11:03:40 PM by Knack

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#114713: Apr 10th 2018 at 10:40:42 PM

[tup]Dollmaker and [tdown]to Doctor.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#114714: Apr 10th 2018 at 10:54:13 PM

While I'm looking at the FMA Monster page, I'm noticing the last sentences on Dante and Envy's writeups are not only unnecessary but also awkward sounding as all hell.

Dante's:

  • She's never shown in a sympathetic light, comes off as an overconfident Jerkass in person, and doesn't even have the excuse of not being human to protect her.
Adds nothing and given that she's not even the only human CM in that version, I don't see it leaves any kind of impression.

Envy's:

  • His Parental Abandonment as a Freudian Excuse doesn't even come close to justifying his homicidal mania and Envy completely undermines it in Conqueror of Shamballa when he decides to murder his father rather than trying to reconnect with him.
Delves into explaining a mitigating factor, which is really more of an EP thing than to be done in a writeup and nothing in Envy's previous characterization would lead us to think he would try to reconnect with Hoenheim, so it's kinda out of the blue.

Any qualms to purging these?

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#114717: Apr 10th 2018 at 11:20:51 PM

Yes to the Dollmaker, but no to the Doctor. Heads-up that we are exceedingly wary of creepypasta, Kazuya, especially shlock like that, and we'd prefer if you propose from more... erm, tasteful media.

Anyways, I've been a bit slow with proposals, but... I've got a few more on the block. Before Deathwatch and an Ernest Borgnine candidate, though, I've got another one from this thread's writer's circle.

What's the setting?

Smirvlak's Stone is the first installment of a fantasy series by Tyk, which has just recently cleared the two-week mark... premise is, in The Dung Ages of a fantasy kingdom called Glordale, two goblin brothers — Nickloas and Gnekvizz Corvell, or "Nick" and "Gnek" — suddenly happen upon a powerful stone capable of conducting immensely powerful magical energy capable of potentially unleashing great catastrophe on the world. Desperate to deliver the stone to the rulers of the kingdom before it falls into the wrong hands, Gnek and the ever-enthusiastic Nick set on an adventure through the countryside, tagged by the stilio who nabbed it in the first place, Stilyk. Trouble is, though... the person Stilyk nabbed it from isn't exactly the friendliest of fellows. And he has designs that might endanger all of Glordale.

Meet Lorko Maeliss.

Who is Lorko? What has he done?

A powerful, sorcerous, highly sadistic gnoll, Lorko is the leader of the barbaric Yellow Fang tribe, a tribe of hundreds of gnolls that spend their time savaging the country, pillaging, raping, and massacring everyone and everything in their path without a care. An utter brute who slaughtered most of his own family and possessed of a propensity to murder his own minions for any reason he can think of — be it challenging him, failure, or speaking out of turn — Lorko keeps everyone else in line by fear of what he could do to them with his dark magic. His adviser in particular, Nessla? Lorko won her "loyalty" by murdering her family, gleefully recounting to her face how he raped her brother, and kept her in line by having the other females of the Yellow Fang ravage and abuse her while keeping her in line by threatening to let them continue the abuse with the help of his magic. At some point, Lorko happened upon the powerful stone. Eager at the potential this would give him, Lorko's dreams were quickly dashed when Stilyk managed to nab the stone. Lorko? Furiously vows to find it no matter who he has to kill.

Introduced in the story torturing and murdering the minion who let the stone slipped before hypnotizing a young girl who stumbled onto their business to butcher her parents (and then herself, it's implied), Lorko storms the goblin village Gnek and Nick lived in, killing their best warrior, worming out the brothers' location by torturing, raping, and slaughtering the merchant who gave them shelter, and nonchalantly letting his gnolls massacre the rest of the villagers. Leaving the desolated village marked to demonstrate to those what happens when the Yellow Fang is defied — something entirely routine, I should note — Lorko immediately starts pursuing the brothers across Glorsdale, attacking and slaughtering anyone they can. In one case? Lorko gets the bright idea to attack a gigantic cyclops who gave the brothers a ride, resulting in over a third of the tribe lost — which Lorko casually writes off, snarling at his advisor when she brings it up that it's "my tribe!"

Winning the loyalty of a group of starved fiscians by killing their corrupt leader, Lorko immediately sets upon the next town he finds the brothers in, sending his forces in a wave of mass slaughter to violently butcher everyone and everything in sight — with the added brutality that the starved fiscians? Eat their enemies, which Lorko happily takes advantage of. Continuing to dismiss more and more of his dying soldiers as "fodder" and killing anyone else who speaks up, Lorko finally seems to corner the brothers in a forest... who promptly trick a group of orcs into converging on the Yellow Fang and slaughtering them. Absolutely furious, Lorko regroups with the few members that remain of his tribe, brutally killing the first gnoll who begs Lorko to revive his fallen partner and casting all the blame on them, refusing to acknowledge his own utter incompetence as leader. In disgust, Nessla takes all but twenty or so gnolls, leaving the one gnoll brave enough to speak up to Lorko openly sneering at Lorko's incompetence as leader and making sure Lorko knows he can't kill the few that remain because at this point, he needs them.

Making their way into the seaport town of Tovvol, Lorko finally has enough of the defiant gnoll's impudence and uses his making to force the impudent minion into mutilating himself to death, and, in the grip of a complete breakdown, Lorko further uses his magic to dispose of most the rest of his band by having them taking sticks of dynamite and become suicide bombers all throughout Tovvel, resulting in dozens more people killed in a series of explosions as Lorko and the handful of minions he has left to board the ship Gnek and Nick intend to board. Slaughtering whoever else gets in his way, Lorko corners Nick in his room and furiously tries to wrestle the location of the stone out of Nick, deciding to rape him to blow off some steam whilst gloating that with the stone's power, Lorko will be able to take over the entire world and annihilate millions as he initiates vast purges of everyone who challenges him while keeping Nick as his personal slave. Unfortunately for him? Nick snaps a bit earlier than intended... and goes for a Groin Attack right as Lorko is pleasuring himself, castrating the gnoll and stabbing him to death with his own knife.

Any mitigating factors?

Uh, no. No excuse, no redeeming moments, not one inkling of honor or decency — Lorko tries one half-hearted attempt to bullshit an excuse but that's shot down instantaneously by own of his own minions, so nothing there.

Heinous standard? It's... probably worth nothing that Gnekvizz himself is set up as the Big Bad for the rest of the trilogy as he's actually a nihilistic cult leader who wants to summon the demon Smirvlak through the combined power of all of the five stones and destroy the world. I'll keep an eye on him, but for now? Lorko blows Gnek out of the water in onscreen atrocities. Loads of mass murder, torture, slaughters his own minions one after another while sending them to die by droves, fond of rape as a torture tactic, and an endgame that Lorko brags with give him the capability to destroy millions of people. Lorko easily clears.

Pass on all counts.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Thoughts?

edited 10th Apr '18 11:35:29 PM by Scraggle

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#114718: Apr 10th 2018 at 11:26:10 PM

[tup]Lorko.

@Tyk: What are the chances of your book trilogy being adapted to movie or a TV show?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#114719: Apr 10th 2018 at 11:28:11 PM

I... highly doubt execs are going to be prowling around looking for random web fiction to adapt.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#114720: Apr 10th 2018 at 11:38:27 PM

Aye on Lorko. Now its time for me to continue my own..... Also offtopic question for writers but has any of you consider using Wattpad for posting your own story? Despite having a fictionpress account.... I might consider myself to post my own story on Wattpad in the future

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#114721: Apr 10th 2018 at 11:38:30 PM

[tup]Lorko

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#114722: Apr 10th 2018 at 11:44:05 PM

Yes to Lorko.

@Scraggle Maybe not, it was still fun to read though. If you can locate a publisher and write it as an official novel trilogy than maybe it would lead to an adaptation, who knows, the future has many possibilities.

edited 10th Apr '18 11:46:37 PM by Knack

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#114723: Apr 11th 2018 at 12:08:17 AM

Judging from Monster.Fan Works, many MLP examples have been axed. Any objections to removing any examples not on that list from work YMMV pages?

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#114724: Apr 11th 2018 at 12:08:51 AM

Welcome to the Game II was only released a week ago. We are supposed to wait two weeks.

jjj
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#114725: Apr 11th 2018 at 12:19:05 AM

[up] Huh....that's right actually, damn. Just realized that.

[up][up] Go for it. You can also search and see if any of them may have already been EPed before.

@ G-Editor: None. Nothing that I write is going to be turned into a movie. That's just not happening. [lol]

edited 11th Apr '18 12:22:41 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

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