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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#113451: Mar 31st 2018 at 7:11:19 AM

Not gonna go on about Hyness for much longer, but in the Japanese version of the game he tells Kirby to go kill himself for Void Termina.

Is the Japanese version of Hyness less comedic than the American version?

edited 31st Mar '18 7:11:31 AM by ReynTime250

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113452: Mar 31st 2018 at 7:14:41 AM

Speaking of collabs.....im just gonna put my name for a RPG video game called Witch's Heart. And while I have so many animes in my belt... I won't put my name on it but I will however, try to look on these Spring Animes and just gave my opinion if it has C Ms in there or not.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#113453: Mar 31st 2018 at 7:41:43 AM

[up] [up]I did hear from some Japanese speakers that Hyness is more serious in Japanese, yes. The long rant doesn't have phrases like 'the age of awesome' and instead just mentions rebirthing Void Termina. They obviously lightened it for western audiences slightly. whether that matters, i don't know.

edited 31st Mar '18 7:44:44 AM by MahStache

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#113454: Mar 31st 2018 at 7:51:16 AM

[up] I was wondering if the Japanese version of Hyness can count, if the English version doesn't.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#113455: Mar 31st 2018 at 7:52:55 AM

[up]Well we have a few dub only villains. So I see no issue with just approving a bad guy only in japanese rather than with the dub added in.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113456: Mar 31st 2018 at 7:57:15 AM

[up] I'm actually pretty cool with that too given the villains who only counts in either dub/sub but not the original/subtitute is only Alexei Dionia.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#113457: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:13:07 AM

We could have the sub version of Hyness be effortposted since I once E Ped the dub version of a villain(Galvatron from the RID anime)

MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#113458: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:18:42 AM

As far as I can tell there aren't that many differences, it's just the happy birthday line makes sense as he talks about rebirthing Void instead of talking about an age of awesome, or any of the silly lines like 'rude', and he tells Kirby to kill hmself for it's god instead of saying "please dissapear forever". That's all I know from what I've discussed online but it's pretty notable. It's most likely changed because if the game kept the darker stuff in, played the insanity straight instead of making it more silly, the game would be rated T. Don't think he requires a seperate EP. though.

edited 31st Mar '18 8:20:23 AM by MahStache

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#113459: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:33:08 AM

Well, I'd assume this is how to do it from the examples I've seen.

  • Be More Chill: The SQUIP is a sociopathic, brainwashing supercomputer designed to make the user popular. The second he uploads himself into High School Student Jeremy Heere, he is excessively cruel, making cracks at Jeremy's self-esteem and forcing him to repeat suicidal remarks the SQUIP makes about him. However, he advances beyond simple bullying when he attempts to have another student rape Jeremy via puppeting his body. From then on, he reveals that he desires to Take Over the World, and as he is rejected by Jeremy, in his last-ditch effort to achieve his goal, he offers up Jeremy's Love Interest as a mind-controlled slave. Behind his dark charisma and dry wit, the SQUIP is a villain far beyond the simple High School setting, with Jeremy stating quite clearly that he could have destroyed humanity itself.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#113460: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:33:29 AM

Hmm, the Japanese version does seem darker. I'm inclined to think that one at least may count.

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#113461: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:34:22 AM

We might as well start voting.

I suppose I'll give a [tup] to the Dub!Hyness then.

[down] Not sure.

edited 31st Mar '18 8:44:18 AM by MenInGreyToBlak

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#113462: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:42:07 AM

By the way does anyone think this collage of Viktor Adler killing Cole's father with vines could work as a page image of Power Rangers:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/38_the_masters_last_stand_2.png
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/prwf_soulsearching_1225_4.jpg
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/download_286.jpg
some caption text

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113463: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:43:41 AM

[up] this one can almost work but hey, you can ask ACW to make a collage of it

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#113464: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:44:30 AM

Even if Japanese Hyness is played more seriously than the localized Hyness, I'd still say [tdown]. My issue with Hyness isn't that he's too goofy, my issue is that he really doesn't do all that much that would qualify him as a Complete Monster.

Heck, Haltmann does much more than Hyness, what with his forced roboticisation of living beings. I just didn't see Hyness having such an effect on the world, so he really doesn't come across as quite as heinous despite his end goal being much worse than Haltmann's.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#113465: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:49:09 AM

Yeah, even if the Japanese version is taken a bit more seriously I still have doubts that his actions are truly given the necessary weight. He's bad on paper but it sounds like neither version really goes into the full implications of his actions.

The image looks like it could work.

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#113466: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:54:10 AM

How is ending the universe not heinous?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#113467: Mar 31st 2018 at 8:54:33 AM

I agree; his mannerisms are still there even if he doesn't say things like "Happy birthday, Dark Lord."

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#113468: Mar 31st 2018 at 9:45:46 AM

I'm gonna abstain on Hyness, but as for a point Scraggle made

The chances of him becoming a Complete Monster — a character that, ultimately, has to be taken seriously at all times — suffer as a result.

Yeah...no. I'm not gonna deny that a Complete Monster should be taken seriously, but taken seriously at all times is flat out untrue. Plenty of CMs have had zany moments that weren't remotely played for horror. Hades had moments like when he was embarassed when Viridi and Palutena mocked him for weakening his army when using them to take out Aurum forces or sneezing before his final battle with Pit, Joker from the Animated Series had Harley beat him up with a Nightstick when she found out he planned on replacing her, the original Ivo Robotnik from the Archie Comics has been abused for slapstick for the majority of the issues he appeared in, including having an entire story about him trying to track down Bunnie but suffering comedically without her knowledge, the Robotnik from the SatAM cartoon was transformed into several creatures by Naugus while Snively laughed at his humiliation, and Bill Cypher has been barraged by kitten heads and paralyzed in pain by the music of a boy band.

I'm not gonna argue against a CM needing to have their more heinous actions taken seriously, but saying they should be treated seriously all, or hell even most of the time since we have Hades and Archie Comics Robotnik, isn't really true.

edited 31st Mar '18 9:54:28 AM by Awesomekid42

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#113469: Mar 31st 2018 at 9:50:57 AM

'No' to Hyness. I watched the cutscenes and have done research on him anyway, and am not seeing how he's played seriously enough at all. When we get to a point where we're arguing about his theme song as evidence of seriousness? That is blatantly obvious that the character likely isn't serious enough.

@ACW: Two from me from the series, then one from the rebooted film Reloaded. The series has a....very loose continuity with the first three films, but nothing crosses over in heinousness that affects any baddies from counting.

'Yes' to Al-Hazari, natch.

Alrighty, now to kickoff my final big batch for the foreseeable future....our second Transporter: The Series candidate.

Who is he?

Gary Landsman is a "filmmaker" and the main antagonist of the episode Sex, Lies and Videotape.

A director who sets up shop in Prague, Landsman realized during his filming days that a certain other business is far more profitable and reliable than simple film-making: Prostitution

Luckily for him, prostitution is legal in Prague! Unfortunately, underage human trafficking? Noooooot really....

What has he done?

Landsman set up a human trafficking network where he bought or kidnapped women—having a predilection for teenage girls—then forced them into sex slavery under threat of torture and murder.

To assist in his enterprises (And further explaining why he has numerous teenage slaves), Landsman secretly films his clients' exploits so as to then blackmail the rich and powerful into further paying for his operations.

In the present, our Transporter Frank Martin is contacted by the politician Jeremy Donne, who is fighting against human trafficking. Unfortunately for Donne, in a moment of weakness he slept with a girl who later turned out to be one of Landsman's teenage prostitutes, much to Donne's horror.

Now? Landsman is blackmailing Donne into blocking all the new laws that could end the legality of prostitution and put Landsman's business at risk.

Though Frank is at first simply contacted to get Landsman off Donne's back, Martin soon runs upon a young girl named Klara, who has attempted to sneak into Landsman's operations to find her kidnapped sister Mariana.

As Frank earches for Mariana—confronting Landsman himself in the process, the scumbag proclaiming "These girls want to work! I can't help if they lie about their age...." as a thinly veiled cover for his exploits—he soon learns that the girl Donne slept with, Zeta, was brutally gunned down recently by Landsman himself when she tried to escape.

Ultimately making his way into one of Landsman's sex parties where all kinds of deviancy and torment go on, Frank takes down Landsman's brutal Dragon Jetmir and rescues a traumatized Mariana, who manages to inform Frank that she saw Landsman murder Zeta and is willing to testify as such, which will get Landsman locked away, and his trafficking business shut down, for good.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Ah, no. Landsman is just portrayed as a misogynistic hedonist driven by lust and greed. He touches his female butler in inappropriate ways, regularly watches the blackmail tapes he has made, and laughs at the idea that he's doing anything illegal, brushing it off as girls just "wanting to work," which is obviously complete BS.

Heinousness?

Of the four candidates from the series, Landsman is PROBABLY the hardest sell, but I think he makes it. No other villain in the show gets up to this level of sexual slavery and trafficking, let alone of teenagers, and coupled with his explicitly murderous personality and employment of Jetmir to brutalize any girls who step out of line, and I think he passes for a villain at his level.

Final Verdict?

On a bittersweet note, the first candidate of the last Scravok collab for a long while is indeed a Keeper.

edited 31st Mar '18 9:57:45 AM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113470: Mar 31st 2018 at 9:54:37 AM

Yea on Landsman

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#113473: Mar 31st 2018 at 10:01:17 AM

[tup] Landsman.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#113475: Mar 31st 2018 at 10:08:42 AM

[tup] Landsman

Ravok before you leave completely, what's your thoughts discussion on the original (Japanese) version of Hyness that is taken more seriously?

edited 31st Mar '18 10:08:58 AM by ReynTime250


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