During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
This won't make a difference but I'll comment it anyway. Hyness is not played for laughs in and of himself... I thought the fact that his establishing character moment is abuse, not a Funny Fail or some shit, would show that. throughout his appearances, even unmasked, he's treated ominously and with a real sense of threat to his actions... if he wasn't meant to be played seriously his boss music wouldn't be so creepy. He's literally Zant, who counted, so why can't Hyness.
Also, "zany mannerisms"? I need to ask, what about him comes off as "zany"? The movement of his animations, if anything, was trippy, not "zany". As a note, his rant is displayed as part of his personality as a Psychopathic Manchild who, when he doesn't get his way, flies into a rage. It is not disqualifying.
edit 3: his sacrifice is still incredibly heinous. He didn't know that they would live, did he, he was fully aware of the probability that they and him would die.
Final Final point: just read his character page on this wiki. It shows what most people think of him.
edited 31st Mar '18 12:30:21 AM by MahStache
The fundamental issue with the Zant argument is twofold.
Firstly? We know Zant as a dark, enigmatic figure who's treated completely seriously for most of the game. Zant is introduced at a significantly earlier time period than Hyness, and as a result, we have a much longer amount of time for the consequences of his actions to sink in as well as the menace of his character. Hyness, by comparison, is only properly introduced at the very end of the game with very little time for what he's doing and his actions to properly sink in.
Secondly, and pertinent to the breakdowns of both Hyness and Zant? Tone-wise, Star Allies and Twilight Princess are enormously different beasts.
Kirby is cardinally a very light, fluffy series, and barring the presence of characters like Zero, nothing in this series could be considered legitimately unfriendly for kids, and that includes Star Allies where even the presence of a cult leader trying to summon a dark entity to destroy the universe is still played within kid-friendly boundaries — there's no real focus on the destruction of billions of innocent lives, or the inherent monstrosity of a character using their own allies as sacrifices. Twilight Princess, on the other hand? Is a dark fantasy (darker than most of the other games in the franchise, I should say) with onscreen death and murder and scenes that have no bones about being as disturbing as the game's rating will allow
. The two games are made for two entirely different audiences — and the subject matter and the overall tone between the games is different.
The breakdowns of Zant and Hyness? To compare how seriously the two are played, I think there needs to be an analysis of how the scenes lean to comedy as compared to how they lean to horror.
Zant's breakdown? I won't deny that, yes, there is some comedy within the situation (Zant jumping around clutching his foot when you hurt him in one phase of his battle, for instance?) but... no, overall? Zant's breakdown hinges more to horror than comedy, something intentionally meant to seal Zant as less a zany, comedic character and more an obsessive, disturbing psychopath. The overall mood of the scene where he finally reveals his motivations is tense, dark, and disturbing, and Zant's disjointed movements and mannerisms are still incredibly unnerving as a result. Oh, and adding to this? There's also that delightful little scene post-breakdown where Zant snaps his own fucking neck onscreen and none of that's played for comedy.
Hyness' breakdown (which, as a continuation of the first point, happens halfway throughout the character's overall screentime and thus very much affects how much he's played)? Is, inherently, a lot more goofy than Zant's because of the setting. We go from a character who's relatively sinister to start into a character who's face is spontaneously and humorously revealed to look like this
◊ before said character proceeds to flail around spouting gibberish and breaking into a rant that ends with him shrieking "happy birthday, happy birthday!" This is zany. This is comedic. This is a character being played within the bounds of what naturally is a very light and comedic game. The chances of him becoming a Complete Monster — a character that, ultimately, has to be taken seriously at all times — suffer as a result.
Hyness' mannerisms, dialogue, and behavior don't compliment or accentuate his villainy in a way that boosts his chance for qualification, in my opinion. They distract from it. And when he's in a series that still proves it can have a proper Knight of Cerebus villain with plenty other villains who's actions, motivations, and overall characterization is played much straighter than Hyness? That isn't helping his case whatsoever.
I remain a no.
edited 31st Mar '18 1:09:23 AM by Scraggle
Before we start voting here, look at this
. That's the theme song of Hyness, does that sound funny? No. That sounds like some theme song from Far Cry
(Ok, that's a stretch, but you get the idea).
I rewatched the Hyness rant, and the only funny thing I could see was at the end when he did some funny pose, and the "RUDE!" thing. Saddam Hussein, from some-cartoon-sitcom-that-aired-a-couple-years -ago-that-I-forgot-the-name-of, is considered Played for Laughs. Hyness, a disturbing psychopath who is compared to Zant, and wants to destroy the entire universe and constantly abuses his underlings, who happens to have zany mannerisms and has weird sounds (keep in mind that Redd White, who is over-the-top as hell, counted). Hyness is a serious threat in the game and most people saw him as one. The only reason Kirby doesn't scream "muderfaking monster" is because he's mute and is barely a creature.
I knew that argument would come. The thing is that Redd White wasn't cut due to being Played for Laughs, but offscreen villainy.
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Yes.
Now, I'll leave it here, I think I've played the defense attorney here for way to long.
edited 31st Mar '18 1:35:15 AM by MenInGreyToBlak
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are u refering to Saddam Hussein from South Park? that was more than a couple of years
edited 31st Mar '18 1:36:42 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffJust popping back up for a catch up.
I'm actually cool with doing the IDW TMNT comics though with how many they are now. I can't do it alone. Would somone please PM so we could set up a collaboration.
Hyness. I think Xie sums up what was on the tip of my tongue but couldn't quite get. Hyness has way too little screen time of 5 minutes compared to the other comedic CM's like Bill. Those other characters have time when they can actually be kinda scary but hyness has so little screen time that any comedic elements would ruin his chances. Also his wiki page makes him sound intimidating is concurring with Xavius not a good argument.
That being said yes to everybody else.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Al Hazari, SQUIP, and the Man. The arguments in favor of Hyness counting remain unconvincing to me, what his theme song sounds like is irrelevant and just comparing him to previously approved C Ms is not a compelling argument. Especially when the similarities appear pretty superficial.
How is what his theme song sounds like irrelevant when debating whether he's played seriously or not? Hyness' theme is ominous and then goes crazy which is an exact representation of his character and what he's supposed to be like, and what he is like.
I really don't know what you want me to say in defense, I even linked his cutscenes but I don't know how many people actually viewed those instead of just going with the general opinion.
edited 31st Mar '18 5:31:33 AM by MahStache
I actually did watch the cutscenes and I'm still unconvinced. I think he legitimately comes across as goofy and his actions aren't really as bad in execution, due to the game's tone, as they are on paper.
And his theme song is irrelevant because it's aesthetic. A villain can have a creepy theme song without being played seriously, just like a character can have a creepy design and not be taken seriously. It has little bearing on his overall presentation and overall I think he falls short of counting.
edited 31st Mar '18 5:53:59 AM by TommyFresh
By the way if no one minds Elfen and I will reserve the TMNT Idw comics. Expect discussion eventually after we go through the entire thing.Eventually though as it's 80 issues so it'll take a bit.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."COLLABORATION! THAT'S IT!
Er, sorry
. When I had the folder of Team-Ups, I knew there was another word. It was on the tip of my tongue, and I felt it began with a C, but I was drawing a blank.
Basem Al-Harazi (his full name according to IMDB). You say one more from you and 3 from Ravok, but only 4 from the series; I take it you guys found another film villain?
Important question: Not that it matters in this case (Al-Harazi's a different type of CM than Wall Street), but are the film series and the show series in the same continuity? It looks like they may be, as Tarconi's played by the same guy.
SQUIP. And take your time. Shoot, I've been sitting on a writeup myself for like a month and a half.

I'm......rather unsure about the wheezing man actually.....though in my opinion. While Keyface seemed to be a demonic entity..... He's a little bit of an interesting contender. But I just lean towards yea just a bit
edited 30th Mar '18 10:32:20 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."