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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#113301: Mar 29th 2018 at 4:27:51 PM

If nothing else I refuse to support anything that could make horrific Ron the Death Eater characters - rapist!Bowser, child-murderer!Snape, etc. - potentially admissible again.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#113302: Mar 29th 2018 at 4:27:59 PM

I rather we settle it now instead of revisiting the issue at a later date. No use running away from the matter if it's just going to come up again. We can settle this civilly like we do everything on this thread.

Oh, yeah. [tup] Bradshaw. Sorry.

edited 29th Mar '18 4:28:44 PM by erazor0707

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#113303: Mar 29th 2018 at 4:37:20 PM

No running away from the matter like we've always done. I'll do the tally tonight and we implement whatever's in the lead, officially.

Well, this wasn't a particularly good thing to come back to, but... see ya, Ravok and 43, and take care!

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#113304: Mar 29th 2018 at 4:40:54 PM

I'll reiterate my opinion for C. Treat fanfics like any other piece of media.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#113306: Mar 29th 2018 at 4:48:51 PM

Well I don't know you as well as most others here but still: Goodbye Ravok and goodbye 43110. smile

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#113307: Mar 29th 2018 at 5:34:46 PM

Dope slaps myself over missing 43's goodbye post

I'm an idiot. Anyways take care, and hope the best for your and Ravok. I certainly don't like seeing people go, and it's probably a bit of a stretch for me to hope you guys have a change of heart, but your decisions are your own. I at the very least hope you guys still stop on by from time to time, and again I wish you both the best.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#113308: Mar 29th 2018 at 6:16:18 PM

[tup] Bradshaw

Goodbye @Ravok and @43. You two, along with @Lighty and @Scraggle inspired me to start doing some effortposting myself.

Go where life takes you.

It's Spooky Month!
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#113309: Mar 29th 2018 at 6:29:20 PM

[tup] to Bill Bradshaw.

Its honestly a shame your both leaving Ravok and 43110. Your candidates are normally amongst the most interesting. But all the best to the two of you, hope it all goes well.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#113310: Mar 29th 2018 at 7:36:55 PM

So, as promised, our tally for the fanfic rule discussion. Some people changed their discussion and I only included those who explicitly voted for one option or another — give me a yell if I missed you:

  • A) 3 (Ravok, VeryMelon, FriedWarthog)

  • B) 11 (ReynTime250, erazor0707, ElfenLiedFan90, miraculous, TommyFresh, PolarPhantom, 43110, DemonDuckOfDoom, G-Editor, HamburgerTime, AustinDR)

  • C) 5 (Scraggle, ACW, NTG, njrxll, bobg)

  • D) 0

B is a clear lead — which means we keep the rule but we allow some wiggle room. Much as I detest having to drag this debate out for any longer, that probably means we're going to have to set a concrete definition of what's allowed and what's not.

Personally, to keep things simple? I really like Duck's idea. Going off that, my proposition is this: no shlock, no Ron the Death Eater, and if it pushes the standard of the setting too far to a point where it's ridiculous? We won't allow it. It'll be a burden of proof for the OP to demonstrate the legitimacy of the fanfic and the example, and we as a thread have the right to downvote these candidates, but there will be no more downvoting a candidate just because the actions don't fit the original standard.

With that in mind, I can't believe I'm saying this, but with a bit of research and bobg's explanation, I also vouch to keep the Pony POV examples — but I'm also for axing Talonhoof and keeping him axed. That should present a fair idea of what I'm looking for in terms of a boundary between "acceptable" and "unacceptable."

Thoughts? Contentions?

edited 29th Mar '18 7:41:24 PM by Scraggle

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#113312: Mar 29th 2018 at 7:47:09 PM

[up][up] Agree with Duck's idea and your assessment.

edited 29th Mar '18 7:47:24 PM by erazor0707

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113313: Mar 29th 2018 at 8:01:18 PM

[up][up][up] [awesome]

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#113314: Mar 29th 2018 at 8:17:03 PM

Scraggle and Duck's rule suggestions make a lot of sense to me. [tup].

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#113315: Mar 29th 2018 at 8:21:11 PM

I agree, keep the POV examples. This seems like a very clear AU.

I might do some digging and find some fics from more appropriate works to propose. Expect proposals from Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Marvel and DC in the future, but it'll be a while.

edited 29th Mar '18 8:23:11 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#113316: Mar 29th 2018 at 8:26:09 PM

Duck's idea is 100% fine by me.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#113317: Mar 29th 2018 at 8:37:16 PM

Oh, and my writeups:

  • Astro City: Krigari the Ironhanded started out as an entity native to the Unterverse who slaughtered his way to a position of power and strength, becoming a galactic tyrant with a perpetual lust for war and blood. Decimating entire worlds and races with the few survivors forced to toil at his armies with slaves and destroying billions of innocents, Krigari's psychotic crusade takes him to Earth once the disguised Quiqui-a, Eth, tells him he is destined to be defeated at the hands of Astro City's Honor Guard. Repeatedly attempting to destroy Earth, Krigari ultimately binds his soul to an artifact called the Dark Opal to make himself invincible and crush all his enemies, with only the sacrifice of the noble Stormhawk putting an end to the Ironhanded's universe-destroying crusade.

  • Maximum Force: Max Tanabe, CEO of Tanabe Industries, secretly controls all the crime L.A. through his funds and connections, enforcing police brutality, making sure fellow criminals like child rapists walk untouched by the law, and presiding over the arms and drugs trade and prostitution throughout the city with whoever witnesses his illegal schemes brutally murdered. Making a point of his ruthlessness by randomly suffocating one of his unfaithful minions to death, Tanabe further orders the family of a man who's partner he had killed murdered before having the compound of the heroes destroyed, with two of them dying to slake his lust to make them suffer.

  • The Dirty Dozen: Deadly Mission: Colonel Krieger is a ruthless Nazi in late WWII who kidnaps several scientists and their families, forcing them to develop a lethal virus he has horribly tested on innocents. Intending to use the virus against Nazi Germany's enemies with the potential to cause millions of deaths to assure the victory of the Nazi, Krieger viciously cracks down on any threats to his objective, callously having the French resistance leader and his aide gunned down the moment they step into his territory, having a half-dozen hostages hanged to dissuade further threats, and furiously trying to murder the new dozen led by Major Wright alongside every single hostage when they escape.

  • Castle Storm: Grand Inquisitor Torca Marda is an elegantly vicious stoat who once vied for the throne of Welkin in rivalry to his cousin Prince Poynt, outdoing even his cousin in evil by advocating weasel genocide throughout Welkin and founding a corrupt religion that enforced mass torture and execution for all perceived heresy. No less dull in his technique as a Torture Technician after being banished, Torca Marda takes residence in Stormtown where he continues to torture animals for pleasure and imposes the new religion across the entire town. Seeing potential to assassinate Poynt and take the throne after he gets back into his good graces by handing him Sylver and his outlaw band, Torca Marda murders Sylver's second-in-command Icham by sabotaging a fair tournament and tries to hinder the heroes' efforts to stop a man-eating dragonfly from devouring all of Stormtown, eagerly throwing away dozens of lives in his attempt to either execute or capture Sylver and his friends.

  • Gdleen: The godly figure known as the "Governor" is actually a supercomputer known as Husnet, who has kept control of Gdleen for centuries manipulating countless wars among the primitive tribes and keeping them technologically stagnant so they never rise up. Demanding constant sacrifice of innocents — which it keeps in permanent suspended animation to harness information from them — Husner has the savage Barbaress tribe massacre an entire neutral city simply for the purposes of wiping out their hated enemies the Miyori tribe. When finally confronted by Ryu, Husner offers to let Ryu go only if he gives up his love interest Fana, cruelly dismissing all the lives it's thrown away for the sake of its god cmplex.

  • Martian Manhunter: J'onn's own twin brother, Ma'alefa'ak J'onzz or Malefic, had his natural psychic powers stripped by his own people by abusing his telepathic powers, using them to cruelly Mind Rape J'onzz's wife. Out of petty spite, Malefic engineered a fatal psychic plague among his people, causing whatever Martian that used their psychic powers to horribly burn and die as a result and singlehandedly destroying almost his entire race as a result. Pursuing his brother J'onn to Earth in a singleminded crusade to end his brother's life and complete his genocide, Malefic tried various times to destroy his brother and all those close to him, murdering the partner of his human identity, Karen Smith, and trying to mentally drive his own brother to suicide through a remnant of himself before his final death.

  • The Thing on the Doorstep: Ephraim Waite, the father of Asenath Waite, was a man affiliated with various dark covens and powers in life who sought immortality regardless of the suffering he inflicted upon others. Consulting dark tomes for a way to live forever, Ephraim finally found a way to expand his own life by body-swapping with his own daughter and damning her to insanity and slow death within his own old body as he took hers. Seeking a male body with strong intellect and weak will to him to weaken and possess, Ephraim slowly seduced Edward Pickman Derby while slowly driving him further and further into madness. When Derby killed Asenath in a desperate bid to stop Ephraim, Ephraim ultimately swapped bodies with him and condemned him to horrific undeath within the rotting corpse of Asenath. Unstopped, Ephraim's dark practices would destroy the peace and comfort of the world as he unleashed untold horror on humanity, jumping from body to body and damning countless more innocents to death for all time.

There. Between the debate, the drive, and all the writing I've done today, I think I'm justified in taking a small break from the thread for a few days for a breather. See you all in a few days for the Scraggle/Ravok farewell collab.

edited 29th Mar '18 9:49:26 PM by Scraggle

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113318: Mar 29th 2018 at 8:41:26 PM

[up] take care scraggs.... You deserve it [awesome]

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#113319: Mar 29th 2018 at 9:29:09 PM

[up][up] Take a rest, man. Looking forward to the collab.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#113320: Mar 29th 2018 at 9:36:20 PM

[tup]Bradshaw.

Why so serious?
DoctorCooper Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#113321: Mar 29th 2018 at 9:48:27 PM

I nominate Leoncio Almeida from Isaura the Slave (2004). I don't know if the original one or the one of the previous adaptation is, but the 2004 one seems to qualify. The telenovela is a bit old.

Leoncio caused a dark mood in all his appearances. He didn't respect anyone and had no remorse for his crimes. He had no problems wooing women but was extremely abusive to them, and when one refused having sex with him (Isaura), he tortures her psychologically and tries to harm her repeated times.His father did repent of being so cruel but he himself never did. He ocassionally rapes his own wife Malvina. As a child he threatened his schoolteachers to put animals in the classroom should them inform his parents of his misconducts, raped a slave so badly that killed her and to cover up his act he has Seu Chico letally poison a fellow slave who witnessed all. Later he has an affair with Tomasia, but ditches her and when she tells him she is pregnant, he dumps her by the stairs and makes her miscarry. He acts childishly through all the series (until he was murdered, that is). . The mood of the series was so dark that there were criticisms of unnecessary violence.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#113322: Mar 29th 2018 at 9:50:35 PM

Seems to keep, but can you expand the proposal a bit so we know more about the work, the character and the plot?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#113323: Mar 29th 2018 at 10:10:21 PM

[up] Yeah, something like this.

What Is the Work?

Heavy Object, once again. You probably didn’t think it would return, but it did! This time, a candidate that we somehow missed.

Who Is he?

Prizewell City Slicker (yes, that’s his real name) is an Elite of the Legitimate Kingdom’s 24th Mechanized Maintenance Battalion, and a raving linguist protectionist. He thinks that the ultimate goal in life is to manipulate war and politics to revolve around his needs.

I’ll be looking at his anime counterpart, mainly due to the fact that we see his face in this version, which is used to express how smug and sadistic he is, more so than his original light novel counterpart; I just want you to know that aside from that, his crimes are the same. He appeared in the third Light Novel, and Episodes 20-22 (though his plans were showcased in Episodes 17-19) of the Anime.

What has he done?

In the past, Prizewell was been rumored to have been behind a few terrorist attacks involving the assassinations of foreign language band members and bombings of foreign language schools, though there was never enough evidence to know if it was all completely his doing.

Prizewell is an idiot of a man who, despite claiming to be helping his people, cares only for himself. His ultimate plan is to abolish all languages except the Legitimacy Kingdom’s, as he feels foreign languages are holding his people back, viewing every other language as inferior. Preferring to be surrounded by people of his own blood and not trusting any outsiders, he wants to ensure that a group centered around himself controls the government and wars, while also advocating the reinstatement of the Legitimacy Kingdom's abolished slavery class. He desires to sort out the pawns of his homeland by using language as an excuse to start fights, willing to threaten people, even ones in the Legitimacy Kingdom, with overwhelming military might so that he can have a say in the matters.

At some point, he had data stolen relating to the strategic A.I.s being developed by the Information Alliance and used them to develop his own A.I.s for his dummy Objects. Prizewell and the 24th Mobile Maintenance Battalion were deployed as a dummy force to support the 37th's nighttime operation on the Kamchatka Peninsula. Having broken away after the operation broke down thanks to a spy planted in the 37th, they returned after the Object Archangel was defeated and attacked the mine, with the intention of killing the miners who were planning to defect to the Legitimacy Kingdom and manipulating the fallout to their advantage. Thankfully, the miners had already been evacuated thanks to Major Froleytia finding out ahead of time. The attempted massacre was even caught on camera by a CS broadcast team stationed at the 37th's base, thwarting their efforts at information manipulation.

After destroying the 37th’s very own Snow Quake and Active Sledge the very next day—as well as heavily damaging the Baby Magnum—with the use of his Indigo Plasma and six dummy Objects, Prizewell announced his intentions for the Legitimacy Kingdom listed above via a broadcast, as well as his intention to make an example out of the nearby immigrant city, where Ayami Cherryblossom’s (the 37th’s mechanic) family—containing her daughter, son-in-law, and grandchild—is located. Ayami even leaves the base just to save them, and is almost killed by Prizewell's Objects thanks to her rescue attempt. His Objects and soldiers—whom he doesn’t care about dying—even release a special blue gas that, when come into contact with a laser, causes massive explosions that are able to wipe out entire fleets of soldiers.

What Prizewell didn’t count on was that all those explosions he created ended up revealing molten lava within the icey crust, which makes the dummy Objects break apart due to the intense heat. Pissed, he tries to kill Quenser, seeing him as responsible for the destruction of his fake Objects. Noticing Milinda piloting a better repaired Baby Magnum, he attempts to kill her, refusing to lose against a first gen Object that’s “behind the times!”. Surrounded in his own gas leaked from the dummy Objects, Milinda fires dozens of lasers that cause Prizewell’s Indigo Plasma, along with him, to explode and kill him.

Redeeming Qualities?

None.

Heinousness?

Dude was a slave-loving hypocrite willing to kill not only a mine full of his own people, but also an entire city of immigrants (including children) for his own personal desires. While there are some villains with higher body counts, none were as hateful and racist/xenophobic as Prizewell.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep. I even made sure with @MasterJoseph and @ElfenLiedFan90, and they both agreed.

edited 29th Mar '18 10:42:37 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#113324: Mar 29th 2018 at 10:36:50 PM

[up] I concur with them. [tup] Slick.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#113325: Mar 29th 2018 at 11:23:36 PM

Yea on Prizewell..... Honestly I spoke with Lighty and Scraggle about this matter too actually. But I would want to tell you about something Jack, I'm hoping that some existing monster in Heavy Object won't get cut due to the raising heinous bar and I'm not sure if it would reach the same level as Jojo or One Piece given there are some straight continuity between the L Ns and the heinous standard is the one that I'm concerned of. Unless if the C Ms in there got adaptational villainy, be unique on their crimes or exceed on their respective resources (Though Resources test is not a get out of a jail free card so that's something to consider). I don't want them to be ended up like the Empire baddies that Vampire proposed

edited 29th Mar '18 11:24:27 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

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