During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Hey would this quote from zoom work:
I know you're here, Harrison Wells. And you did not come alone! You can try to hide. But I'm the fastest man alive! I will scour this city until I hunt you down and when I do all of you will feel... my... WRATH!
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Welp, I know I saw this coming and Lucius is getting downvoted. But hey! I'm cool with that and yeah, I think Polar Phantom said it the best that we'd rather have a boring villain that could qualify but not for the interesting villains who had redeeming quality. But even then, there's Ego,Koba,Lotso,Shogo,Ardyn or Ellen so you don't have to worry about the trope lacking some fascinating C Ms. And yeah, I agree with you mir that Lucius is rather a bit of a fascinating villain. His methods are awful but his goal is interesting. But yeah, even if Lucius didn't get qualified......There's still the sequel which I also reserved. And if Lucius made a comeback in there (which is unlikely since he's kind of killed off), I may or may not EP him again in case we get his motives that isn't played for sympathetic light. Aaaaand speaking of which. Here are other potential C Ms from Brave Frontier that I didn't bother to EP and here's my reason why:
- Shida: I actually thought that this guy could qualify due to unique MO that he has (Experimenting some people that ended up making people to become a monster that we will fight in the Extra Stage just to slake his curiosity). However, I think he almost qualify had it not been the constant continuity snarl that the story had and some of the subject are willing to participate on his experiments that undermines his heinousness......Heck ask Scraggle about this as I P Md him about it and said that Shida was a pretty complicated case to be approved (Along with Lucius)
- The Bariura Emperor: Yea, this is one of the unapproved entries that got cut by Silver Blade 2 and I could give my two cents on this guy.......He's a horrible parent as his turning his kids like Alice to become a Child Soldier and imprisoning her older sister that rebel against him. He also assassinate people who opposes against his rule. However, I don't think he counts due to the messy Alternative Character Interpretation that he had (Given that he went to another world to slay another beast so that he could use said beast to win the war against the gods) and most of his crimes fell into offscreen villainy and he has a pretty little screentime when we see him in person. And when he appeared for the first time, he ask one of his children to work harder despite his callousness with him losing a child. So yea........I don't think he makes it to the heinous standard despite being the most personal of one of the characters.
- Karna Masta: This one, I could see him qualifying given that he participates in betraying some other gods,betrayed and imprison his brother and in the manga........he killed one of his subordinate, Fadahl and he also tried to kickstarted a genocide between humanity thus kickstart the plot of the game. But I don't think he counts due to the same problem that I had with Lucius and given the continuity snarl issues........yea, this would be a huge problem
Anything else to note, Not necessarily and I used to think that Kikuri,Borgeus,Jakra,Isterio,Klaus and Raka had a chance for qualifying on this trope. But given the mass murders in BF are as common as having a breakfast......Yea, It's a pretty hard chance for these characters to qualify. But even then, I'll be reserving the sequel regardless of the high heinous standard. And keep in mind that this is the only JP version that I'm talking about. GL Version however.................I'm not going to sugarcoat it but there is one character in GL Exclusive lore who ripped a baby from a woman's womb (No! I'm not shitting you, this is not a grimdark fanfiction. This is LITERALLY happen in the GL version lore). And yeah, I'm not going to discuss the game yet as it's still ongoing unlike the JP version who stay dormant due to people are working on the sequel that I reserve. So these are my opinions on BF 1 as a whole and if you have a different opinion, feel free to say it.
@Clown-Face And Holy Shit! I hope that you're okay.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."@ACW Stay safe. @Clown face I hope it is a prank Should we keep Cartoon Network or cut?
edited 28th Mar '18 8:25:20 AM by hegelvonaxel
There a reason we're tampering with Tsubarov's entry? Or Desil's? I don't recall anything being especially wrong with the originals (both of which I admittedly played a role in writing).
Anyway, first proposal in a while. Comes from the Lovecraft short story "The Temple".
Who is Karl Heinrich? What has he done?
Karl Heinrich is, in his own words, " Graf von Altberg-Ehrenstein, Lieutenant-Commander in the Imperial German Navy and in charge of the submarine U-29," as well as the Villain Protagonist of the story. Attacking the British freighter Victory, Heinrich sinks her, then orders her crew into lifeboats. He then sinks all of the lifeboats, once at a time, with his U-boat's cannon, filming the entire event so that he may show it to his superiors in Berlin. One of the sailors, a Greek, eludes the cannonfire and clings to the front of U-29 where he dies of exposure. He is wearing an ancient ivory talisman, which Heinrich's XO, Kienze, claims for himself.
When the deadman is seen swimming away by several members of the crew, Heinrich accuses them of being "pig-ignorant commoners" and has them brutally disciplined. When Boatswain Mueller begins hallucinating the faces of U-29's victims, Heinrich has him clapped in irons and whipped. Shortly after Seamen Bohin and Schmidt lose their minds, and Heinrich has them executed in order to "restore morale" among the crew. Muller and another Seaman named Zimmer, commit suicide, and the crew becomes restive.
The crew begins to demand that U-29 surface and surrender to an American warship. Heinrich has Kienze shoot a seaman named Traube, then threatens the rest back to work at gunpoint. When the six remaining seamen mutiny, Heinrich shoots them all, leaving only himself and Kienze aboard the ship. Kienze eventually goes mad himself and begins demanding that the two of them leave the submarine (stranded at the bottom of the ocean due to damage from the mutiny) and walk out into the depths, which are calling to him. Tiring of Kienze's company, Heinrich opens the airlock and allows him to commit suicide.
Heinrich finally loses his own mind over the next several days, and, upon discovering what he thinks is lost Atlantis, dons a scuba suit so that he can walk out into the drowned city and find the source of the light from its temple, which is calling to him. He leaves his account in a bottle, and goes off to die.
Are his actions heinous by the standards of the story?
He's the only villain in the story and aside from the two suicides, is responsible for all the deaths that take place in the story (and one might even give him some of the blame for the suicides, given his whipping of the crewmen in question). Within the wider Cthulhu Mythos, he's still a standout, having killed the entire crew of Victory at the start, and admitting to having sunken countless more ships in the same fashion as the story goes on. Heinrich's got a body count of at least several hundred if not several thousand and he does it all while being a normal human being with no connection to the greater entities of the mythos.
Any redeeming qualities?
Heinrich claims to love his fellow Germans and to hate to see them suffer. Yet in practice he's totally contemptuous of his crew, abuses and murders them at the drop of a pin, and makes it clear that as an aristocrat and a Prussian he is superior to all of them, sneering in particular at commoners, Alsatians, and Rhinelanders. In the end he murders all of his men rather than listen to them or help them.
Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?
Lovecraft's using Heinrich to attack Prussian militarism and Imperial Germany as a whole, and you could argue he's a caricature more than a character, or that he's simply a cog in the Imperial German warmachine. That being said, the presence of the rest of his crew, who are capable of feeling remorse for their actions and eventually mutiny on account of it, positions Heinrich as uniquely bad even for an Imperial German.
Final verdict?
Probably the single worst human being (or at least the worst normal human being) in Lovecraft's universe, I'd say he qualifies. Thoughts?
Marakov
Julius
Alright, Channel Zero: Butcher's Block: no one count even if the villains are awful. In this very loose adaptation of the Search and Rescue Woods creepypasta, the Peach familly are a immortal cannibals who live in an alternate dimension and frequently abduct people from a Wretched Hive with the help of monstruous baby faced dwarves to eat them. They do have some standards, they don't eat children... They have them sacrificed to their god instead.
However they genuinely love each other. They apparently went crazy after the murder of the two young daughters. The patriarch Joseph Peach in particular has genuine bonding with one of the protagonist and want to adopt her and her sister as his daughters and even cure them both from their hereditary schizophrenia. More blatantly in the last episode, he breaks down upon seeing the bodies of his sons and then furiously chases the heroes. I'd give a honorary medal to Robert Peach who, in one of the most disturbing scene, eviscerates a man alive and eats his lung. Unfortunately he doesn't do anything more afteward aside from offing another guy before getting himself killed. The aforementioned evil god only shows up once, never talks nor displays characterizaton.
My point is: considering that this season is considerably Darker and Edgier than the previous ones: should I reevaluate the heinious standard to see if the Candle Cove duo still count? So far there's no explicit connection between the seasons of the anthology unlike American Horror Story or Black Mirror so I don't know if they can be grandfathered or something.
I'd say Heinrich isn't as evil as Curwen (a serial torturer + murderer of slaves and attempted Omnicidal Maniac) but Curwen is a powerful necromancer while Heinrich...isn't. Enthusiastic yes
Keep Cartoon Network.
As for the Candle Cove duo, if there's no explicit connection, I THINK we're probably okay, but that's just me.
Heinrich. That Alas, Poor Villain and maybe Designated Hero seems to be inaccurate then.
BTW, I'll feel REALLY stupid if I've been pronouncing it wrong this whole time. It's S'-THOO-loo, right?
edited 28th Mar '18 8:49:47 AM by ACW
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Are you gonna try and trim David King's entry?
And huh, looking at this
, neither of us were correct originally, but now your way is more common.
If you'll allow it, I have a recommendation for you.
What is the work?
Who is he?
SCP-106 AKA The Old Man.
What did he do?
Along with the crimes he committed in canon, The Old Man takes advantage of the titular Containment Breach to gleefully slaughter as many Foundation members as possible. Including a janitor, a random scientist (whose mangled body he tosses at the Player Character), possibly Dr. Maynard (A security code note that belongs to him in found in his Pocket Dimension) and Dr. L (His office is covered in stone and moss from his pocket dimension, and his notes mentioned being tortured and driven mad by The Old Man)
When coming across the D-class prisoner he relentlessly persues him throughout the compound. At one point dragging him to his Pocket Dimension where he can kill him or watch him painfully bleed to death. He also leaves creepy messages on floor, saying things like his hair smells nice, or that he will chew on his ankle.
His Pocket Dimension is also filled coffins that contain his still living victims, who beg to be released from the Hell he trapped them in.
In order to contain 106, the player needs to break a D-Class prisoner's femur. Attracted to it, 106 will arrive and take the man to his Pocket Dimension, allowing him to be contained.
Mitigating Factors?
None. He is every bit as violent and sadistic as he is in canon.
Heinous Standard?
Sure, the other SCP's kill people too, but not with the same sadistic pleasure as him. Also he clearly does enough to stand out.
Conclusion?
Considering he's the same sadist as he is in canon, I'd say so.
...huh. You know, I remember Lovecraft wrote the German in that story as an unsympathetic caricature — like Lovecraft wrote pretty much all foreign people — but I didn't actually recall him being quite that bad. I'll say yea to him.
Otherwise? No to Lucius. I think there's enough wiggle room for him being interpreted as a genuine WIE that he fails qualification as a result.
Trimmed down David's entry a bit. It's still kinda long, but it's below 300 words now.
- I Dared My Best Friend series: David King is the Overarching Villain of this series and was a manipulative, murderous sociopath even as a child. In the first installment
, he obsessively tries to destroy the life of Zander Jones. His malicious actions escalate to threatening to kill Zander's girlfriend if Zander doesn't meet the "minimum required effort" for retaliating against him. He murders one of Zander's roommates and kills his own mother in a house fire in an effort to frame Zander and ruin his life by sending him to prison. After realizing that he'd get bored without his favorite target, David frees Zander from police custody by murdering two cops. During David and Zander's final confrontation, David shoots and kills his own accomplice and tries to do the same to Zander's girlfriend seemingly out of pure spite. Despite being dead in the sequel series
, David's evil still drives the main conflict. Here, it is revealed that Zander wasn't the only person whose life David tried to ruin. Having formed a group of similarly-sociopathic individuals, David would systemically destroy the lives of complete strangers either to benefit members of his group and gain their trust, or simply for his own amusement. They would even kidnap people they deemed especially weak and sell them into sex slavery merely because it'd ruin their lives. David had no genuine loyalty to any of them, as he would physically abuse his girlfriend, and the aforementioned accomplice that he killed was a member of the group whom he'd previously helped. Additionally, he'd been feeding information about them to the FBI, likely to gain leverage over them and to have an easy way to dispose of them once they bored him.
edited 28th Mar '18 10:15:31 AM by rosewood47

@ACW When will Fomortiis be put at Fire Emblem