During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I just found a Complete Monster entry on YMMV.Vice, which is an orphaned subpage. The content should be in Monster.Film S To Z to allow cutlisting it.
The movie was quite boring and unoriginal, but the description given on the YMMV page is accurate.
So I found this quote from Dolmeck of Cutey Honey. Thoughts on using it ?
- Cutey Honey: My God! You, what are you?! What kind of monstrous demon are you?!Dolmeck: I AM DOLMECK, THE DEVIL'S CONSORT! GUARDIAN OF ALL EVIL!
D who is a D.
Thanks for doing that, I've often wondered if any movie Sentai villains count. Yeah, he comes back in the show proper, but still. And I can confirm that the Deboss Army has full agency. Deboss himself is a GDV with questionable agency, but his offspring are much different.
Torin, the mentor, was a Deboss monster who fell in love with Earth and became a Guardian, two of the Generals have tragic endings with sympathetic stories, two generals pull a Redemption Equals Life and Chaos, The Heavy, has a few Pet the Dog moments and is genuinely loyal to Deboss.
EDIT: I guess Brajira was the antagonist of the Goseiger x Shinkenger crossover, but he was the Big Bad of Goseiger anyway, so I don't consider him a "movie" villain. And Long returned in the Go Onger x Gekiranger crossover, but again, he was Gekiranger's villain. One of Sentai's most hateable bastards, in fact. So I wonder if there's any more... Hm? I have an idea?
edited 15th Mar '18 8:21:10 AM by PolarPhantom
Harada and
D.
So before I do a vote tally on Yostverse!Ross/Red Hulk (maybe get a few more deciding votes), I'm getting the last of my Marvel candidates, this time from a live action film and a rendition of one of comic's most famous Satanic Archetypes right next to Trigon, I present to you, Mephisto as portrayed in Ghost Rider and its sequel Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance. He is payed by both Peter Fonda and Ciaran Hinds (although I prefer the former).
Who is he ? What Does He Do ?
Mephisto is refereed here as being the devil and the ultimate ruler of Hell, who seeks to spread his influence on Earth as well. However, in order to walk on Earth he needs a human body which makes him significantly weaker and with limited powers. Despite these limitations, he has a number of host bodies in the form of various murderers, tyrants and dictators throughout history (and in a throwaway joke, Jerry Springer). In the second film, we learn the origins of the Ghost Rider spirit; once upon a time there was an angel named Zarathos, the Spirit of Justice who sought to protect the innocent, until Mephisto tricked him into Hell where he tortured, twisted and corrupted the angel into insanity for years, turning him into the Spirit of Vengeance we all know him as today. At another point in the past we see Mephisto has sought the contract of San Vengaza, a town about a thousand people who all sold their souls to him and sent the previous Ghost Rider, Carter Slade, to find. Realizing the wicked power the contract holds, Slade flees with the contract to keep it out of Mephisto's hands.
Centuries later, Mephisto comes across a young daredevil named Johnny Blaze who does stunt shows with his father. Johnny finds out that his father has cancer, and Mephisto approaches him offering to cure his cancer at the cost of his soul. Johnny tries to read the contact but gets a paper cut getting his blood dripped onto it, which is all fine for Mephisto (essentially he tricked Johnny into this deal). Johnny's father is cured of his cancer, but the very next day, Mephisto has him killed during a stunt. Johnny confronts Mephisto, who tells him that he couldn't have his father get in his way, and now Johnny is his property.
Years later, Mephisto re-emerges when his rebellious son Blackheart plans on pulling The Starscream and bringing about Hell on Earth on his own, seeking the San Vengaza contract. Mephisto approaches Johnny and has him turned in the Ghost Rider in order to bring Blackheart back to Hell. With Blackheart as the main villain for the rest of the movie, when Johnny succeeds, Mephisto returns to offer his soul back now that Johnny has fulfilled his end of the bargain, but Johnny refuses to relinquish the curse, declaring he will use the Rider to combat Mephisto and his work. Angered, Mephisto swears revenge and returns to Hell.
In the second movie, Mephisto's physical body is growing weaker and dying (he's also going by Roark in this movie but I'm still referring him to Mephisto to avoid confusion). A thief and a gypsy named Nadya Ketch was once involved romantically with Ray Carrigan, a professional criminal. When one of Carrigan's business deals went sour, Nadya ended up on the brink of death, choking on her own blood. It was at this point she was offered a deal by Mephisto. In exchange for her life, she would bear the demon's child, giving birth to her son, Danny. Mephisto plans on transferring his spirit into Danny's half demon body, destroying the boys soul in the process and essentially become The Antichrist. Nadya manages to flee with Danny and they've been on the run for years with the help of an order of monks.
In pursuit, Mephisto hires Carriagan and his gang to hunt them down, killing the monks at the beginning of the film. Naturally the Ketch's find themselves in the crosshairs of both Johnny and a warrior for a Christian order named Moreau. Danny is abducted by Carrigan, and Mephisto puts a "firewall" on Danny to prevent the Ghost Rider from finding him, but warns that they won't be able to stop the Rider from tracking Carrigan. Sure enough the Rider finds him, kills Carrigan's men, leaves Carrigan himself to die, and saves Danny. Mephisto approaches Carrigan and turns him into the shadowdemon called Blackout with the ability to decay everything he touches.
Carrigan manages to adbuct Danny, and Johnny was previously exorcised of the Rider, but that doesn't stop him, Nadya and Moreau from trying to stop Mephisto's plans with mundane weapons. Mephisto prepares a ritual to possess Danny, gathering his mortal followers from murderers to politicians. Johnny and co disrupt this ritual (and Johnny takes this opportunity to punch the weakend devil in the face). In the ensuing fight, Blackout manages to kill Moreau and take Johnny hostage. Luckily Danny happens to have his father's powers and re-bestows the Ghost Rider into Johnny. The Ghost Rider manages to kill Mephisto's mooks and Blackout, while Mephisto attempts to flee with Danny in a car. The Ghost Rider chases them down and crashes their car, and with Mephisto too weak to do anything at this point simply tells him "You where the worst fucking deal I ever made!" before the Rider slams him down through the earth, incinerating Mephisto's body and presumably entrapping his spirit in Hell forever.
After this the Rider manages to overcome his demonic influence, and healing a seemingly dead Danny from his injuries. With Zarathos restored, Johnny continues to use this power as the Spirit of Justice...until the rights for the character where moved to Marvel Studios and the Rider was bestowed to Rex Reyes.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?
Approximately none. These films give Mephisto (and all demons in fact) the typical Fallen Angel backstory.
His relationship with Blackheart is anything but loving obviously, with them being played off as more as rivals than father and son. Supposedly there's a deleted scene where he yells as Johnny for killing his son since he wanted Blackheart back alive, but it was cut due to the pointlessness since alive or dead Blackheart was going back to Hell. The reason why he wants Blackheart stopped is not to save to the world or anything like that but because he claims the souls he seeks belong to him and what he wants to use for his own power. To everyone else, everyone is a victim or a pawn; including his other son who he wants to use as The Antichrist, destroy his soul, taking his body for his own.
He is also willing to trick or arrange circumstances in order to get his way, with him tricking Johnny into his Deal with the Devil to save his father, but kills said father the next day to demonstrate that Johnny is his property. He does give Johnny his soul back since their deal has been fulfilled which could be seen as a Pet the Dog moment, but they quickly go back to mutual animosity when Johnny declares he will use the Rider against him.
The second movie is a little more comedic than the original, but Mephisto is still played strait except for a passing gag of one of his host bodies being Jerry Springer.
Heinous Standard
Considering his only competition in this movies is his son Blackheart, looking over the two I'd say they are both just as heinous; Blackheart is just more direct in his approach and Mephisto being more insidious.
In the first film, Mephisto has one onscreen personal murder, seeks a contract of a thousand souls that are his property and tricking Johnny into selling his soul.
Second film, I'd say he steps up his game; Mephisto is revealed to have tricked and tortured an angel in hell to create the Ghost Rider; conceives a child in order to create a new host body; masterminds a demonic conspiracy with additional murders in an effort to claim the boy, destroy his soul and become The Antichrist; we also learn he had a number of host bodies over the centuries such as Joseph Stalin, John Wayne Gacy, Idi Almin and...'JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! among other people. He also seems to have his own idea of Hell on Earth in that he's trying to spread his influence to the world.
edited 15th Mar '18 11:48:45 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Pure Pragmatic Villainy since he knows how strong Johnny's gotten and wants to take away the Ghost Rider from him so he can't cause any more issues for him.

on D
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff