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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#110251: Feb 26th 2018 at 7:33:15 AM

[tup] Grodd, Karyakhas, and the Praxis rewrite. Unsure on Ringmaster.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#110252: Feb 26th 2018 at 8:07:28 AM

No to the Ringmaster. Too much weird ambiguity there.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#110253: Feb 26th 2018 at 8:21:47 AM

[tup] N52 Grodd.

I went over Buu and whether 21 messes with Super Buu's agency. I concluded that it didn't since good 21 feared going evil eventually even after splitting from her evil self. In contrast, Good Buu never seems to be in danger of returning to evil. Something went wrong with 21 which didn't go wrong in Good Buu, so I don't think there's a problem with Super Buu.

Well, Scraggle, I am honoured you would ask for my input on Kor! Still, like you, it's been a long time. He is NOT a GDV, I agree on that. But I'm also not entirely sure he does enough? We also never see an example of good Metal Heads as far as I'm aware. But in Daxter's spin off game we do see Kor interact with a Metal Head underling who seems to have his own personality...

I will look into this.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#110254: Feb 26th 2018 at 8:27:59 AM

So what I recall Kor doing... he annihilated the Precursor civilization, yes? That's on top of his periodic attacks on Haven City (which results in a lot of casualties, I should add, like Dead Town), being behind the actions of Kaeden in Daxter, and eventually murdering Praxis himself and trying to tear the entire city apart to get the Precursor Stone — all to feast on the life force of the (ostensibly) last Precursor within.

On his own, it's a nasty rap sheet. What I'm concerned about is how he rounds up to Praxis himself; while Kor is knowingly in part responsible for facilitating the godawful state of Praxis-ruled Haven City and the game ultimately treats him as worse, Praxis also has stuff like the Dark Eco experiments which is a uniquely horrid bit of personal villainy even Kor doesn't get up to.

I think I can at least give the Metal Heads the benefit of agency... Kor and Kaeden at the least are capable of complex planning and selling themselves as convincingly trustworthy people. Contrast, say, the Shroobs which are just "destroy destroy destroy everything" 24/7.

edited 26th Feb '18 9:17:57 AM by Scraggle

rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#110255: Feb 26th 2018 at 9:38:27 AM

God from Preacher seems to have enough votes to qualify. I'd do a writeup myself but I'm not really familiar enough with the comic to do so. The discussion has gotten me to read it, though, so if nobody does it by the time I'm finished reading it, I'll do it myself.

[tup] Grodd btw

edited 26th Feb '18 9:38:59 AM by rosewood47

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#110256: Feb 26th 2018 at 9:55:31 AM

Yea to Grodd and Karyakhas but Elfen, I know we discussed your candidate and I still feel there's enough to indicate he's behind the murders but I've got another question about the Ringmaster: how much more than a bizarre demon Serial Killer do we get on what the hell he is exactly?

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#110257: Feb 26th 2018 at 10:05:49 AM

43110 makes a good point on the Ringmaster: a lot of villains in Junji Ito's comics tend to skew towards mysterious inhuman forces of evil as opposed to fully fleshed out bad guys, with the Ringmaster seeming to skew towards the former kind. Not really sure how I'd vote on him either way, though.

As for New 52 Grodd and the Turok villain, they're both easy yesses. And seeing as how he was met with universal approval, I'll get the Trickster written up soon. I'm close to done with a candidate I've been meaning to settle for a while, and I'd prefer to write Trickster up once I get my final thoughts on Slur out here.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#110258: Feb 26th 2018 at 10:17:48 AM

New proposal for today...I have some comic reevaluations upcoming, as well as some other film examples, and a horror story from one of our own, but first, time to get this one out of the way:

What's The Work?

The Man with the Iron Heart is a film about, guess who, Reinhard Heydrich, and his rise to become one of the leading figures of the Third Reich until his assassination and the fallout in occupied Prague.

Who is Reinhard Heydrich

Gee, I wonder. At any rate, Heydrich opens the film as a young German officer drummed out of the Navy due to a sex scandal. Left in disgrace, Heydrich eventually gets back into politics as he is approached by Heinrich Himmler who informs him of the rising Nazi party. Heydrich signs on, along with his wife Lina, who convinced him to read Mein Kampf and helps to convert him to National Socialism, before starting a family. Hitler ends up appointed Chancellor, and Heydrich? Well, plans are put into motion to completely dominate the German political arena. In the infamous Night of the Long Knives, Heydrich helps lead a gruesome purge of Hitler's political rivals.

Heydrich is so effective he even garners the nickname "Man with the Iron Heart" for his effectiveness and ruthlessness. As things go east, Heydrich is named Reichsprotektor of Bohemia-Moravia. Heydrich decides he will make it the very first area to be cleansed of Jews completely. Putting together the SS with Himmler, choosing men for their ideological devotion to the Nazis and their effectiveness, Heydrich leads a horrific campaign of war crimes, massacring entire villages, killing innocents left and right and having it filmed to enjoy the footage in his spare time. Heydrich proves brutally effective as stamping out resistance and ethnic cleansing.

Then comes the Wannsee conference, when Heydrich proposes and helps to architect the Holocaust itself, turning murder into an industry. He has the campaigns...ramped up something fierce throughout. Throughout it, heydrich attempts to track down the leaders of the Czech resistance, killing more people along the way. At one point, having people gunned down to fill a mass grave. He also has resistance fighters abducted and tortured to get the information he wants.

Finally, the Czech Resistance gets the better of him and Heydrich's car is bombed. Mortally wounded, he ends up dying in the hospital later, but the Germans take their ire out hard on the Czechs, burning the village of Lidice to the ground, as the film ends with the cornered resistance fighters killing themselves as the war goes on.

Heinousness?

Okay, Heydrich is bad by Nazi standards. Like in real life, he was a brutal war criminal, a torturer and a mass murderer, as well as one of the chief architects of the Holocaust. Easy pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

He seems like he may have them early on. He's devastated when he's thrown out of the Navy for the sex scandal, to the point Lina has to remind him that real men don't cry openly. He seems to have a good relationship with Lina and their son....except it's shown as a mask for the sociopath he truly is. When Lina is giving birth, we cut to Heydrich watching one of his films, and he answers the phone and asks in a detached way that shows he's completely uninterested about his wife or new baby. When in his position, Heydrich pursues his role with utter zealous fervor to the point Lina feels completely isolated from him, and Heydrich treats her with complete disinterest and informs her that if she presses the issue, her role as his wife can end in a heartbeat. The only time he ever seems to gain enjoyment from anything is winning more status and in the pain of others. He's a fanatic Nazi, but this seems due to his virulent Aryan supremacist beliefs. He has no feeling to any other member of the regime and when he learns one officer is being too 'lenient' on Jews before his arrival, Heydrich blackmails him into stepping down so he can take over and start the purge in earnest.

Conclusion?

Reinhard Heydrich is an easy easy easy keeper in a film not too different from the man himself.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#110259: Feb 26th 2018 at 10:20:14 AM

[tup] Heydrich

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#110261: Feb 26th 2018 at 10:30:42 AM

[tup] Heydrich

Alright anybody up for coming to this thread and help vote on the picture: 24 monster image pickin

edited 26th Feb '18 10:34:19 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#110262: Feb 26th 2018 at 10:33:22 AM

[tup] Heydrich. Doesn't seem like his being tossed from the Navy is played for sympathy.

This is the third iteration of heydrich to be a CM.

edited 26th Feb '18 10:35:22 AM by ACW

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#110265: Feb 26th 2018 at 10:54:28 AM

Re:Ringmaster

Yeah, I knew this was going to be up and I actually thought that he was more of a human rather than the demon itself dus to the occassional quips that he make or in one instance, make a joke abouf one of his victims dying. But considered Fried has a decent point regarding Ringmaster's nature..... It's understandable why peeps have a hard time voting him :/ Sorry for the confusion I caused in the EP.

Anyways, yea on Heydrich btw

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#110267: Feb 26th 2018 at 11:02:41 AM

[up][up]Yeah I think ringmaster is one of thoose examples like creeper where there's too much ambiguity to make a decision.

Though Elfen could I ask what yor profile photo is ?

edited 26th Feb '18 11:03:02 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#110268: Feb 26th 2018 at 11:05:14 AM

Having seen the film? [tup] Heydrich. Great movie, by the by.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#110269: Feb 26th 2018 at 11:11:06 AM

@miraculous That would be Souichi Tsujii from Junji Ito series and yes, it got it's anime adaptation so that's something to consider....This is probably one of the reasons why I propose Ringmaster as I actually found some of his short story being read bu someone om Youtube and after hearing how he reads it.... i've become a fan of Junji Itu himself......Dont get me started on the anime adaptation.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#110270: Feb 26th 2018 at 11:16:26 AM

Little off-topic, but may I suggest Hellstar Remina by Ito if you haven't read it yet, Elf? That one's an excellent take on the Cosmic Horror Story with Ito's trademark creepiness — I think I recall a character there who missed the trope by only a few hairs too.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#110271: Feb 26th 2018 at 11:27:14 AM

Yes to Heydrich, and seconding that Hellstar Remina recommendation. It's confusing, crazy, and one hell of a thrill ride from start to finish. And I actually did contemplate proposing a character from it, but without spoiling too much for those wanting to read it, said character had way too many confusing aspects to his character for me to propose with confidence.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#110272: Feb 26th 2018 at 11:30:34 AM

Effortpost time!

This is the Transformers one I've promised. I've been given the go ahead by Ravok when I asked him my concerns about whether this example could qualify or not. Having seen all the episodes where this character appeared in, I am still confused and actually leaning [tdown], but I decided it could be worth a discussion at least with regards to how much does he sutand out in his setting.

What is the work?

Transformers: Robots in Disguise, or rather, the original 2001 anime with the same name called Car Robots in Japan. This effortpost will be focusing on a character in the dub, not the original Japanese version. What is it about?

When Earth is targeted by Megatron and his Predacons, Optimus Prime and his Autobots prepare for their coming by installing themselves in secret among human society, masquerading as everyday vehicles used by humankind with no knowledge of their true nature. The first episode sees Megatron appear and kidnap famous scientist Kenneth Onishi, this leads with the Autobots allying with his son Koji to rescue him before Megatron can pry from his mind the truth of the ancient secret hidden somewhere on Earth. That secret? The Cybertronian Weapon: Fortress Maximus, which Megatron seeks to find through probing Dr. Onishi's mind.

Megatron finds an ancient cave system through the mind probing, but the Autobots and Koji were able to get there as well and discover a coded microchip belonging to the Doctor. After scuffles involving the new Autobot troops Skid-Z and Tow-Line, the microchip leads the Autobots to the Cave of the Dragon, where they discover a mysterious artifact of Cybertronian origin.

The microchip also leads the autobots to a crashed Cybertronian spaceship containing six protoform Autobots. But Megatron has also learned of the ship through his mind-probes and captures the autobots, converting them into Decepticons by corrupting their spark energy. The final corrupted Autobot scanned Optimus Prime in addition to the tanker truck that will be his alternate mode, creating Scourge, a twisted "evil twin" of Optimus.

The artifacts in the Cave of the Dragon was an "O-Part", which could help the Autobots reactivate Fortress Maximus through uncovering the ancient transformer Cerebos. Fortress Maximus itself was excavated in the episode "Fortress Maximus". Eventually the Autobots were able to find the remaining O-Parts with the help of Dr.Onishi as an unwitting result of Megatron's Second In Command, Sky-Byte. With the O-Parts, they were able to find the Orb of Sigma in a pyramid within the Sahara Desert, the orb itself holding the location of Cerebros. Megatron himself shows up at the Pyramid and engages Omega Prime, the fusion of Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus, in combat. Megatron was defeated and seemingly destroyed. However, in the end of the episode where he is seemingly defeated(episode 32), it is revealed that Megatron seemingly survived, and drained the energy of the Pyramid, as well as that of the Predacon brothers Slapper, Gas Skunk and Dark Scream to be reborn as......Galvatron.

Who is Galvatron? What has he done?

Galvatron himself admittedly dosen't do much until the final arc. He first shows up in episode 33 when Scourge tries to control Fortress Maximus, but fails due to Koji's intervention. This is because Maximus responds to human bio-signatures, but dosen't do much but boast about his rebirth as Galvatron and seizing Cerebos as the Predacons and Deceptions were retreating. In the next episode he does the same. Episode 33, 34 and 36(35 is an out of order clip show about Ultra Magnus) all focus on Scourge's plots to overthrow Galvatron and take control of Fortress Maximus, failing every single time(the second time Scourge uses his own human bio-signature, and the third time he manipulates one of Kojis' friends to take control of Fortress Maximus for him). Eventually Galvatron has had enough and turns Scourge and the rest of the Decepticons into a mindless drone. He abandons Cerebos in this episode instead of retreating with Cerebos, and the autobots finally recover Cerebos.

The final arc, episodes 37, 38 and 39 is where Galvatron comes into his own however and racks up his unpleasantness Up To Eleven. In Episode 37 the Predacons and now mindless Decepticons finds out the Autobots secret base and attacks it, but they were lured to a lake by the Autobots, whom anticipated what was going to happen. Galvatron then shows up with the Preadacon ship and announces his intent to control Fortress Maximus for himself. When Optimus says that they will not be able to control Fortress Maximus,Galvatron has his ship fire a missile barrage at the Autobots. However, Galvatron's rampage is stopped by Build Team Autobot Wedge, whose courage at standing up to Galvatron's missile barrage and laser fire was enough to inspire Cerebros to activate Fortress Maximus, whom subsequently destroys Galvatron's ship, and seemingly Galvatron himself, given that Galvatron merged with his ship to attack Fortress Maximus.

Or so it seems....episode 37 ends with Galvatron's seemingly lifeless body twitching. Episode 38 reveals him to have survived. Galvatron then transforms into a bat and flies onto Fortress Maximus's head, draining the latter's energy! Having absorbed Fortress Maximus' energy, Galvatron leaves the battlefied to unleash his powers on the world, only to be stopped by Omega Prime. Galvatron responds by disorienting Omega Prime with black smoke and reveals his ultimate plan: to release his "Cyber Bats" into the world, and these bats? They are released to enslave children, starting with Koji! Koji is hit with a Cyber Bat and turned into a mindless drone, with Galvatron promising to repeat this process in every single planet he conquers until he conquers the universe. We then cut to a brief montage of other children being attacked by Galvatron's cyber bats, with Galvatron mocking that there is nothing Omega Prime could do to stop him, even inferring he would harm the children if Omega Prime does anything against him.

This threat forces Optimus and the autobots to retreat back to base via space bridge, and Galvatron sends his Decepticons in pursuit, the villains are joined by Sky-Byte, whom seeks to prove his loyalty to Galvatron by destroying the autobots himself. However this was a plan for Galvatron to destroy the Space Bridge by himself by collapsing it on both the Autobots and Decepticons, not caring that Sky-Btye would also be destroyed if he succeeds. This is so he could be the sole ruler of earth. The success of his plan allows the space bridge to collapse onto itself with lava pouring in, but the energy used to fill the space bridge with lava expended Galvatron's own energy, which forces him to relinquish control of the cyber bats. This allows Koji to break out of mind control and he yells at Optimus and the other Autobots to not give up.

Optimus and the autobots break free from the Space Bridge, in response Galvatron, after regenerating his powers, transforms into Iron Mammoth form and uses his powers to pull the autobots into the air via a stasis field and then drop them helplessly onto the ground.

In the next episode, it is revealed that Scourge and the other Decepticons have survived, Galvatron commands them to attack the Autobots and, after Scourge's subsequent defeat fires an energy field on the Autobots subjecting them to immense pain. They are saved by T-Ai, who opens another Space Bridge for Optimus to enter while the other Autobots hold him off. Though Optimus stubbornly refuses to go, he's grabbed by Ultra Magnus and carried off. In the space bridge, Optimus persuades Magnus to help him return to the battle, and they combine into Omega Prime once more and lure Galvatron into a space bridge heading into Earth's core so he can trap them both. However, Optimus is weakened by the Earth's core while Galvatron is, in fact, strengthened by it. Optimus is saved at the last minute by Koji, whom contacts other children through the internet(yes literally), so they can empower Fortress Maximus with energy once more. Fortress Maximus then transfers his energy to Omega Prime. This not only reenergizes Prime, but also creates the mighty Matrix Blade. Optimus then defeats Galvatron and seemingly causes an explosion that destroys them both..............

Except that Optimus manages to survive and because the sheer force of the blast that deactivated Galvatron reactivated the space bridge and freed him. As for Galvatron? Fortress Maximus and Ultra Magnus have captured the Predacons and the Decepticons(well except for Sky-Byte), and they'll be taken back to Cybertron and imprisoned in the Asteroid Space Colony.....for a long, long time.

Redeeming Qualities and Mitigating Factors:

As Megatron? He has a few redeeming qualities. He does praise his minions when they've done a good job. However, as Galvatron, he has no qualms about reducing his minions to mindless drones or killing his own minions if they try to turn against him. This in itself is arguably not particuarly heinous considering that the Decepticons did try to overthrow him, but he dosen't care about the Predacons either when they are caught in the crossfire, such as when he tells Sky-Byte that he is on his own when Sky-Byte enters the space bridge in the penultimate episode.

He does stop the use of the Cyber Bats to brainwash children due to running out of energy in episode 38, but that's because he has exhausted way too much energy and needed to recharge. Even through he claims he does not need to control Earth's children anymore, in his final battle with Omega Prime in the Earth's core, he states outright that he will resume his efforts to control "Koji's generation" after he has killed Prime.

He dosen't kill the Decepticons after they also break free of the space bridge but uses them to destroy the autobots, but that's probably because they're expedient tools to be used as

Now Devil Gigatron, Galvatron's counterpart in the original anime has a genuine Heel–Face Turn in a sequel manga, but that isn't canon to the dub version so it can't be seen as a mitagating factor.

Heinousness Standard:

Here's the issue, Galvatron would most likely not qualify on his own in the other transformers universes. In this universe however, he does not have to compete with say, the Fallen, Unicron, Airachnid,or Beast Wars/Machines era Megatron. Considering that in the original RID continuity, most of the villains motivations are generic take over the universe and find weapon capable of doing so, Galvatron seems to be the worst overall with his willingness to kill his own followers and enslave human children.

And we actually see a montage of him not just brainwashing Koji, but the rest of the human children around the world as well, so it isn't Offscreen Villainy.

However here is the issue, does his actions fit baseline heinousness. This may be a situation where while the character's actions are horrible on paper and the character does cast aside his redeeming qualities in the incarnation we are discussing, but does he really stand out as a villain as a whole. He's the worst person in the setting but does any of his actions fit the baseline?

Enslaving children with cyber bats and moving from planet to planet to repeat the same process sounds horrible, but he never does anything with it. It's played seriously no doubt but I'm wondering if simply trying to enslave children horribly and kill one's own henchmen horribly is a qualifier in a setting as light hearted as the original Ri D anime. He was called a monster by Optimus Supreme, but You Monster! isn't a qualifier on it's own.

Furthermore, he had literally only one episode(episode 38) to establish his plans and how nasty he is, which was to kill the Autobots and Decepticons and anyone who gets in his way, as well as. Episode 39 he just gets defeated and he does generic bad guy vs. good guy stuff in episode 37. He literally dosent do much from the time of his rebirth as Galvatron to Episode 38. So I am not sure if one character literally reveals how bad he is in one episode(and in this case towards the end) but dosen't follow up with equally reprehensible actions in the next episode(sure he does make his threat to continue to enslave human children, but that's about it).

The Setting as a whole is very light hearted so he stands out more with his actions in the final arc, but I'm not sure if planning to enslave children(and actually carrying out these plans) and then trying to kill his own henchmen makes him stand out as significantly vile on itself even in a lighthearted setting as this one.

Verdict:

Admittedly could go either way and I'm abstain if I have to pick. My issue is in the final arc, Galvatron is portrayed as a purely serious threat and his plan to enslave the children with his bats is seen as extremely heinous. However, he is presented as your bog standard villain out to conquer the universe up to episode 38, ad that's admittedly with only one episode left where he dosen't follow up with anything particularly heinous. The issue is that he dosen't have to compete with anyone else, and his cyber bats plan is at least seen as heinous by Optimus. The issue is if simply enslaving children and planning to kill one's own allies with one's enemies is uniquely vile with regards to the baseline.

But if I have to make a decision between [tup] or [tdown], I'd say [tdown]. While the character appears horrible on paper, he could have really done more with his plans to enslave the children since all we get is he wants to enslave children and take over the universe. Furthermore, I am not sure if willingness to kill one's allies combined with this is enough for him to fit the baseline, even through he dosen't have to compete with anyone else in this setting.

Still others may disagree and I do see it to be at least worth a discussion.

PS: Oh and [tup] Heydrich. Since we haven't covered his incarnation in Anthropoid yet, does he do anything in that film to qualify for anyone who has watched Anthropoid?

Expect two Romance of the Three Kingdoms spin-off material related discussions tomorrow.

edited 26th Feb '18 12:19:05 PM by xie323

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#110273: Feb 26th 2018 at 12:05:40 PM

[tup]Heydrich.

Why so serious?
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#110274: Feb 26th 2018 at 12:06:53 PM

[tup] Dub!Galvatron. I think he only just does enough.

[tup] Heydrich

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#110275: Feb 26th 2018 at 12:11:47 PM

[tup] Grodd, Karyakhas and Heydrich. Writeup for Kaixa.

Seiden: Grotesque Flowers: In this novel adaptation, Masato Kusaka/Kamen Rider Kaixa manages to be much more repugnant and heinous than he already was in the show. In the past, Kusaka was one of the "Ryusei Children", orphans raised to be able to succesfully wear the drivers. Bullied by his peers, Kusaka had Mari to keep him company, but unbeknownst to her, Kusaka only saw her as a possession, rather than a real friend. When his classmates are attacked by an Orphnoch, Kusaka generalized the entire race as being monstrous abominations who deserve to be destroyed by him, even if there are good-hearted Orphnochs. Upon getting hold of the Kaixa Gear, Kusaka took the chance to try and kill all Orphnochs and keep Mari only to himself. Kusaka was responsible for the murder of Yuka, another bullying victim and a close friend to Kiba, driving him to hate the human race. After killing several innocent people, Kusaka rapes Mari, not caring if the assault had left her hopeless and depressed. Kiba is so disgusted by this that he personally rips off Kusaka's limbs as punishment for his crime. Later, Kusaka resurfaced once again to make Mari's life a living hell, but was ultimately stopped and killed by Takumi. A calculating, antisocial bigot who saw others as mere objects for him to use in his genocidal quest, Kusaka served as a brutal example of how even the worst kinds of people can become Riders.


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