TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#11001: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:40:03 PM

[up]I don't think "evil group" is tropable. I do get where you're coming from though.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#11002: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:41:31 PM

Honestly, that movie sounds like Sweeney Todd in that everyone's so evil nobody can qualify.

shoboni Since: Oct, 2010
#11003: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:41:47 PM

[up][up]"Evil Group" would probably be a index because there's several kinds of evil groups we trope.

edited 3rd Apr '13 3:41:55 PM by shoboni

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#11004: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:50:28 PM

[up] Sociopathic Army, to go with Sociopathic Soldier? Would have to be no RL examples because you just know someone would try adding the controversial military du jour (US Army, IDF, etc.).

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#11006: Apr 3rd 2013 at 3:54:08 PM

Like the idea. It could be helpful as a subindex of Villains and Evil Tropes.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#11007: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:01:59 PM

[up]I don't think we've even figured out what we're talking about though. Are we talking about an organisation in which every member is straight up evil, no freudian excuse, no nothing? Because if so that's going to cause issues and edit wars as people try to figure out how evil is evil enough to qualify. Even worse it'll become filled with rejected examples from this trope, as people try to sneak things in the backdoor. Going to have to say no to such an idea.

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#11008: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:10:38 PM

There are examples I've seen (such as the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers or a humorous one in the first series of Blackadder0 of a group of the most evil people in the land.

I believe in both cases, they are listed/covered under Carnival of Killers.

edited 3rd Apr '13 4:10:57 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#11009: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:15:44 PM

don't we already have Always Chaotic Evil, is that not the group equivalent?

jjj
Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#11010: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:17:21 PM

[up][up][up]Valid objections. It would need a lot more discussion in any case.

[up]That's only for species that are completely evil.

edited 3rd Apr '13 4:18:16 PM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#11011: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:19:16 PM

@Lighty (10947) I like your Highlander write up. Only two little things.

  • The namespace you used redirects to Highlander, so I'd use that one.
  • Kern of the episode Line Of Fire is described by his watcher as an 'animal, ' who rapes, kills and steals as he will. -> change to: Kern of the episode "Line of Fire" is described by his watcher as an 'animal' who rapes, kills and steals as he will.

Otherwise it has my full approval.

Tell me if I may post a request to cut Star Trek examples and replace them with the re-writes. We can still discuss Armus and have him added later on.

Any more consensus I overlooked?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#11012: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:22:16 PM

Could use some more opinions on Alexia Ashford, here. I've got two or three votes so far, but that ain't enough obviously.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#11014: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:31:02 PM

[up][up] Hmm, she seems pretty nasty. My main problem is probably the continuity - is it for sure that she's not connected to the Alexia avenging her brother? If she really is a different character, she would have my vote.

edited 3rd Apr '13 4:31:18 PM by XFllo

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#11015: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:34:08 PM

[up]The continuity is shaky here. Whether it's a retcon, or Leon/Claire being an unreliable narrator, or the writers just forgetting what the original Alexia was like, I don't know.

What I would say is that seeing as the only way someone playing DC would know she doesn't count would be if they also played Code Veronica I am inclined to count her, while making it very clear that we are talking about the Darkside Chronicles version only.

And if it is an unreliable narrator, then I'd say that if somebody from a Show Within a Show can count (which I think we determined was the case) then I see no reason why the version of Alexia in Leon's story can't.

edited 3rd Apr '13 4:35:16 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#11016: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:34:33 PM

Yep, different game, different interpretations of the character

XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#11017: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:36:21 PM

OK then, she has my vote.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#11018: Apr 3rd 2013 at 4:44:07 PM

Any other comments on Captain Jack while we're at it? I listed his deeds on this page, and why nobody else in the game qualifies on this one.

edited 3rd Apr '13 4:46:09 PM by HamburgerTime

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#11020: Apr 3rd 2013 at 5:11:33 PM

I don't know the game, but I read your posts about Jack and am inclined to say yes as well, but the discussion is a bit "jumpy", so I must ask — were there any votes or arguments against him that I should read as well? If not, he has my vote.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#11021: Apr 3rd 2013 at 5:14:14 PM

[up] Some New Guy voted yes, but for the most part the discussion was eaten by a Supernatural debate. SNG also mentioned a character named Scheffield from another entry in the series I'm not familiar with; what's that guy's deal?

edited 3rd Apr '13 5:16:00 PM by HamburgerTime

XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#11022: Apr 3rd 2013 at 5:19:26 PM

Right. Well, I think you could write the example as you would want to post it and then you would get more comments on it. I think he fits. If you are not familiar with other characters, I guess that doesn't mind. Examples should not be compared to each other anyway.

edited 3rd Apr '13 5:21:24 PM by XFllo

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#11023: Apr 3rd 2013 at 5:21:42 PM

Could I get more input on the Yogscast Minecraft Series examples I brought up on @10757(Page 431)? I'd like to cut Skylord_Vitali, Jock_Fireblast and King_Finbar sometime soon, and potentially add Israphel to Monster.Fan Works.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#11024: Apr 3rd 2013 at 5:37:43 PM

Yep, also gonna throw my lot in behind those picks

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#11025: Apr 3rd 2013 at 6:27:55 PM

Dragonheart

  • Einon, even going so far as to kill his own mother when she tries to fulfill Draco's request to kill him so that Einon can be beaten.
    • His father wasn't much better.
    • The sequel's Big Bad is a piece of work too. A dragon so evil that his peers punished him by turning him human in the hopes that he would develop empathy for humanity after living as a man. It just made him hate humans more. His entire goal is to become a dragon again and finally wipe out humanity.

No context for the father.

Some entries on AdventureQuest Worlds that aren't on the Artix Entertainment page:

  • Dr. De'Sawed is established as another one. He sends out fake invitation letters to crazy and insane people inviting them to his insane asylum... just so he can break their minds for no reason other than For Science!. Oh, and he's also the reason why Xan became the insane Pyromancer that he is today.
  • Kezeroth, the villain of the 2012 Frostval event, is worse than the other Frostval villains put together by dint of being an Omnicidal Maniac, and without the backstory that would make one of these sympathetic. It definitely doesn't help that this guy is absolutely brutal when he's in a killing mood, such as with what he does to Elim. All that definitely earns him his own special place on Santa's permanent naughty list for sure.

Tank Girl

  • Kesslee. First of he controls the water just for himself and uncare if he would lead the rest of the population to dehydration. Then he earns the title when he has his men attack Tank Girl's house, knowing she set up their own water well and killed most of the members. While imprisoning Tank Girl, Kesslee repeatedly tortured and brainwashed her into working for him.

How does this sound?


Total posts: 326,048
Top