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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#110126: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:32:48 PM

[tup] Hakuryu. Those who played the Mega Man X saga will easily recognize my candidate, Double.

Who is Double? Appearing in X4, Double is clumsy Reploid serving as X's operator, who sees him as a friend rather than just another co-worker. However, we find out that he is a Psycho for Hire working for the Mavericks, being resposible for the slaughter and dismemberment of X's unit at the base, mutilating them with a grin on his face. Near the end of the game, Double ambushes X and reveals his true intentions to him, telling X that he was merely using the Maverick Hunters and the Mavericks themselves for his own amusement, implying that he was likely going to betray Sigma in the future, and when X tries to get an answer for him, he replies with "Think it over in heaven, X". After the battle, Double is unable to comprehend how a "weakling" was capable of defeating him, and gleefully confesses to X that he was a mole from the very beginning, mocking him for being "naive" enough to consider him a friend and trust him.

Heinous? Double has little screentime when compared to other villains in this saga, but oh boy did he stood out from the rest. Unlike Sigma and the majority of the Mavericks, who tend to be rebellious due to viruses, Double is just a sadistic Reploid with a taste for violence and destruction, one of his pre-battle lines even being "I'm so anxious to rip you apart!", acting more as a machiavellian Serial Killer than a regular double agent. His massacre of X's unit is also one of the least child-friendly moments in the entire saga, which you can see here.

Excuses? No excuses are given for him, he even allows himself to be bullied by the Maverick Hunters just he can stay out the radar and gain X's trust.

Conclusion? You decide.

edited 24th Feb '18 5:37:51 PM by TheMadCr0w

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#110127: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:37:28 PM

Suggestion for Monster.Fan Works. Can you put the Brigit and Marcus examples under the header The Makings of Team CRME as they are both part of the series.

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#110128: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:42:16 PM

Found this on Get Out (2017). It's radically different from the rewritten entry on Film D To J, and the mention of Rose's actress is completely unnecessary.

  • Complete Monster: Rose Armitage lures victims through false relationships. Once acquiring a victim, they are psychologically tortured, culminating in their minds being overwritten via brain transfer. A sliver of the original inhabitant is condemned to the "Sunken Place", wherein they are fully aware of their surroundings, but are powerless to do anything about it. Initially posing as Chris Washington's girlfriend, Rose assists her family with detaining Chris before casually browsing the internet for more victims. Even as she bled out, she still desired to hurt Chris, playing the victim card so to frame Chris for attempted murder when a police car approached. To further drive this home, Rose's actress, Allison Williams, said that her character was not hypnotized at all, and was evil of her own accord and free will. A cold-hearted sociopath who doesn't bat an eye even at the death of her family, Rose enjoyed manipulating others.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#110129: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:43:15 PM

No on Double. He falls way under the baseline standard. I don't think there's a case to make for any villain in the series, Maverick or otherwise, in the main X series. Not to mention? Double faces staunch competition from Magma Dragoon, who's got triple his body count with the Sky Lagoon incident (which Dragoon brags he'd be eager to repeat).

edited 24th Feb '18 5:46:52 PM by Scraggle

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#110130: Feb 24th 2018 at 5:56:28 PM

[tdown] on Double. Wasted villain who barely gets to do anything.

What's hopefully not a waste is this new (and final) Parasite Eve effortpost.

What Is the Work?

Parasite Eve 2 is the mediocre continuation of the previous game released for the Playstation in 2000. Seeing how popular Resident Evil has become, Squaresoft decided to capitalize on the success by making this game a rip-off that plays like a poor-man’s version of better survival horror games.

Three years after the events in the original game, Aya Brea, now working for M.I.S.T. (Mitochondrion Investigation and Suppression Team, who are totally not S.T.A.R.S.) is thrown into a new battle in the American southwest against the NMC (Neo-Mitochondria Creature) creatures she battled in Manhattan. While fighting these advanced NMCs, Aya discovers a conspiracy that seeks to replace humans as the dominant species on Earth. While these shadowy people turn out to be dead later on, there is one member who is still alive, and unfortunately, it's their most evil associate.

Who Is he?

No. 9 (or No. 9 GOLEM) is a sadistic, sentient Golem— strong AMNCs (Artificial Neo-Mitochondrial Creatures) created by Neo-Ark laboratories —and one of the first ones. Originally a human, he requested Neo Ark to make him an ANMC, paying the scientists to retain his human intelligence and memories, unlike the other Golems, who are mindless and follow orders. He’s also the closest thing the game has to a main villain, being sent by his unseen, possibly long dead boss to complete his goals.

What has he done?

The game starts with him leading an attack on the Arkopolis Tower in downtown Los Angeles, killing everyone inside (including the SWAT team), and turning some into monsters. He then tries to kill Aya’s partner, Rupert Broderick, in a church, escaping when she sees him. While Rupert doesn’t die, he and his arm end up being greatly damaged. He later fights Aya on top of the Arkopolis Tower, blowing it up after he’s defeated, not caring about the lives he took in the explosion. He often tries to pull a Not So Different with Aya, calling her a “Hunter” just like him.

His ultimate plan is to manipulate Aya to get to Eve, a young girl located inside the hidden underground Neo Ark laboratories under Mojave Desert.

When Aya arrives at Dryfield, No. 9 sends Kyle Madigan to spy on Aya and her team, leading her to Neo Ark (which is totally not a rip-off of the underground Umbrella labs). When he encounters Aya again, he laughs at the number of lives lost in the Arkopolis tower attack before trying to kill her. He tricks Aya into going to Neo Ark and unlocking the barriers surrounding Eve (this time a young clone of Aya, even coming with her powers). Once Aya frees her, No. 9 swoops in and takes Eve away, threatening to snap her in two if Aya tries to stop him. He escapes, sending out creatures to try and kill Aya.

He plans on having Eve combine with a giant monster called Pupa in order to “shed its cocoon” and give it ultimate power, where it’ll unleash a virus turning every human on earth into AMNCs, with No. 9 thinking that humans should evolve by being given mitochondria DNA. With Kyle by his side, he makes him shoot Aya. While he shoots her in the arm, Kyle ends up being a double agent, shooting No. 9, with 9 himself getting eaten alive by Pupa.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. He became slightly mad after he was converted to a Golem, but again, only slightly. We don’t know much about No. 9 before he became a Golem, but judging by the way he behaves, it’s safe to say he was never an innocent individual, and only became worse after acquiring a lot of power and strength.

Heinousness?

He has the highest kill count out of anyone in this game. While he doesn’t have the resources as Eve-2, he still manages to kill a lot of people, with his plan having the chance of killing every human on Earth. While that’s the same plan as Eve-2, the way he plans to accomplish it is different. And despite the plan not being his idea in the first place, the fact that he caused so much needless destruction and death makes him stand out as a huge bastard.

Eve herself in this game is not like the previously named Eves’. She’s a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who was treated as nothing more than a powerful experiment grown from Aya’s DNA. Aya even adopts her at the end of the game as a little sister. This Eve is also not the same one from the previous game.

Golems themselves are creatures meant to guard the Neo-Ark laboratories by capturing escaped test subjects and kill intruders. No. 9 refuses to do this, instead preferring to get his hands dirty.

Conclusion

I think he counts. A sadistic manchild (when Aya tells him to let go of Eve, he responds with “Ok… NOT!”), No. 9 proved to be a bastard who enjoyed reveling in his inhumanity.

edited 24th Feb '18 6:30:10 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#110131: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:15:23 PM

Yeeeah, that Rose bit needs fixing, and seconding Scraggle on Double.

That said, proposal time from a film: Odd Thomas based on the book by Dean Koontz...starring the late, great Anton Yelchin. Anton Yelchin plays 'Odd' Thomas, a young short ordercook living in California. Odd? Is a psychic. In fact? He sees dead people. Odd has a normal life, a loving girlfriend named Stormy, a good job...and he's something of a local celebrity. When he sees dead people? He does something about it. He also sees supernatural beings called Bodachs. Bodachs are spirits drawn to where suffering and death will occur, alerting Odd of potential issues., The local police chief is aware of Odd's gifts and spins stories to keep public attention off him.

Then...Odd notices a startling amount of Bodachs gathering in town, indicating something big is a-brewing, Odd having dreams of being shot dead with a number of other people by a faceless gunman. Odd then serves a meal to a man named Hensley, or 'Fungus Bob' who's surrounded by the Bodachs. Odd begin investigating Bob....and learns of something dark brewing: a plot to kill a ton of innocent people, led by, in a twist, Officer Simon Varner and his partner Ben Eckles of the local PD.

Who are Simon Varner and Ben Eckles?

Varner is an unassuming cop, who's first brought to attention when Odd notices a tattoo on his arm: "POD"...he dismisses it as an abbreviated embarrassment from his youth. Now, it turns out...with Fungus Bob, and two other officers named Eckles and Goss, Varner is a Satanist who wants to offer as many victims to Satan as humanly possible.A woan named Lysette, who was being set up by Eckles by Chief Porter, ends up knowing too much and gets kidnapped by the group. Using Goss to try to 'rescue' her, Varner has Lysette killed by having her mauled by dogs.

Now, obviously knowing that Odd is a problem at this point, Eckles and Varner, knowing Bob can't be trusted not to get caught, shoot him to death and plant his corpse in Odd's apartment with evidence linking him to the murder. Odd manages to get rid of the body., as Varner and Eckles also try to murder Chief Porter, with Eckles shooting him in the chest. Thanks to a metal trinket Odd gave him, Porter survives, but Eckle tries to murder him at the hospital. Odd, unknowingly, interrupts, forcing Eckles to retreat. Odd's research in Bob's apartment reveals that the group have also been carrying out Satanic murders in their own time and Odd can see hundreds of Bodachs gathering in the town. Odd realizes they mean to attack the mall....Varner and Eckles murder the security staff there. Odd gets lucky and knocks out Eckles with a baseball bat where the plan is revealed: Eckles and Goss will conduct a shooting into the mall while Varner drives Fungus Bob's van in, with a bomb to kill more people....they'll slip out and 'respond' to the shooting as cops with nobody the wiser. Varner has Goss begin firing to gun down people, only for Odd to shoot him dead. Odd steals the van to drive it from the mall, Varner in pursuit. Odd manages to drive the van toward a manmade canal in the fight and is thrown out, but Varner remains in it as the van hurtles off and explodes with Varner inside, finishing him off.

Heinousness?

Well pas the baseline with numerous murders on their own time and an attempted mass murder as well. Eckles and Varner are the ringleaders and the worst of the lot. Goss is pretty faceless and not characterized while bob is just something of a lackey. Varner is the head of the group who devises the plan, while Eckles is the nastiest besides. I'd qualify the pair.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nothing. They have absolutely no good qualities to speak of, and no camaraderie given how they easily murder Bob with absolutely no remorse or hesitation when he's a liability. They're just mass-murdering Satan worshipers and any good qualities they show as cops is obviously faked.

Conclusion?

I can see some controversy on Eckles, but Varner is a clear, clear keep. I'd keep them both, but you decide.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#110132: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:23:29 PM

Yea on another Parasite Eve candidate and Varner.....Unsure on Eckles.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#110133: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:26:43 PM

Eckles... just sort of strikes me as a nastier than usual goon, but Varner seems a clear keep. Yea to Varner, nay to Eckles.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#110134: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:32:47 PM

[tup] Golem, Varner, and Eckles. What happens to Eckles?

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#110135: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:34:13 PM

Yes to Varner but no Eckles.

edited 24th Feb '18 6:34:25 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#110136: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:38:21 PM

Eckles is knocked out and arrested. The movie has a ....very bittersweet ending, as Stormy is killed getting people to safety in the shooting but Odd doesn't realize it at first, spending time with her spirit until he's informed she passed away by Porter, and has to let her go.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#110137: Feb 24th 2018 at 6:45:49 PM

Okay, I requested cutting the note from Aerys's, and I replaced the Get Out entry with the original one.

BTW, I looked it up: POD=Prince of Darkness.

rt89: Requested.

I'll [tup] GOLEM, and I think I'll echo Scraggle on the Odd Thomas duo. Eckles doesn't seem like he stands out from the rest of the gang, except maybe being a bit more sadistic. Yes to Varner though,

edited 24th Feb '18 6:46:07 PM by ACW

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#110138: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:02:33 PM

[tup] To Golem And the Odd Thomas Duo

edited 24th Feb '18 7:02:45 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#110139: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:05:24 PM

[tup] Varner but usnure on Eckles. [tup] Golem.

Was gonna bring up a new True Blood candidate (Lilith, who literally personifies the heinous standard), but going though a bit of a sickness and a depression lately, plus I got to finish writing to plot of my horror game once I get through writers block so I'll put a pin in it for now.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#110140: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:19:10 PM

Yes to Varner, Eckles, and Golem. Dark Matter and Double however are a no. Honestly, I can see Kirby getting a Complete Monster candidate in the future given how bad his most recent foes have been. But to the level of this version of Dark Matter or that kitsune from the darkfic posted recently? Absolutely not.

Anyway ladies and gents, after mulling it over I suppose it's time for my first effortpost of the year!

What's the work?

His name is Barry Allen, and he's the fastest man alive! Formerly an average Joe CSI who made his debut on Arrow, a particle accelerator explosion in Barry's hometown of Central City bestowed him with the gift of superspeed while others in the city developed fantastic powers too. With the help of his friends at S.T.A.R. Labs, Barry puts his gift to use by fighting crime as the super-powered vigilante known as The Flash, and spends his days throwing down with criminals of the metahuman and non-metahuman varieties.

Now the show already has a qualifier in the form of Zoom, a ridiculously powerful metahuman who nearly wiped out countless universes. And while Zoom is a pretty high bar to clear, this guy is still pretty vile all the same, and thanks to a recent episode calling a certain redeeming quality of his into question, I'm about to discuss a villain I never actually imagined discussing: let's give it up for one of the show's most memorable (two-time monsters of the week: the Trickster!

Who is the Trickster?

A complete lunatic portrayed by Mark freaking Hamill (who is hamming it up like mad and having a hell of a good time doing so), James Jesse terrorized Barry's hometown of Central City in the past under the alias of The Trickster: a terrorist with a penchant for deadly pranks, malicious tricks, and gaudy unitards. After a killing spree that ended in the deaths of at least ten civilians and two cops, Trickster was thrown in prison where aside from a few incidents where he drove his shrink to suicide and killed guards out of boredom, he laid dormant and was content to munch on the occasional Twizzlers and binge watch Breaking Bad (in his own words, "they let me watch TV if I stopped killing the guards") while serving his sentence. At least, until the present...

What Has He Done?

Making his debut in the Season 1 episode Tricksters, Barry and his foster father/friend on the force Joe West enlist the Trickster's help in stopping a crazed fan of his named Axel Walker, who is donning the Trickster mantle and recently made his debut by trying to bomb a playground full of children and their families with explosive gift boxes being dropped by balloons. Seemingly outraged by having his likeness stolen by a "rank amateur/pretender to the throne", Trickster vows to help the pair find Axel and points them in the direction of an old hideout of his...

Which has been robbed completely, save for a bomb that nearly kills the pair. They confront Trickster, who seems annoyed that his hideout was looted and reveals to them that he left a bomb that was powerful enough to level the entirety of Central City should it go off.

After Axel announces that he has the bomb and challenges the police to defuse it, Barry runs off to find it, after which we learn the truth: Axel and Trickster? They're in cahoots. They've been in contact via letters for years, Trickster got Axel to follow in his footsteps and molded him into a terroristic madman, and the bomb was a fake and a diversion so Axel could spring Trickster out of prison. And after escaping and taking Trickster's fellow inmate Henry Allen hostage as leverage against the cops, he ropes Axel in on his "biggest trick yet, his Mona Lisa, his Breaking Bad Season 5!"

Said big trick has them infiltrate a party being held in honor of Central City's mayor, where they disguise themselves as waiters and spike all the partygoers' champagne with a slow acting poison that kills a guy who came early. Trickster says that they'll get the antidote and avoid his fate... as long as they all transfer their fortunes to his offshore bank account, and threatens to gun then all down if they contact the authorities. Luckily, Flash arrives on the scene, administers the antidote, and after almost being killed by a kinetic bomb, he gets the Trickster to reveal Henry's location. Trickster and Axel are arrested, Henry is saved from almost being impaled by tons of knives, and all in all Central City is safe... for now.

Fast forward over to Season Two's ''Running to Stand Still", where Trickster makes his second appearance alongside fellow Flash baddies Mark Mardon/Weather Wizard and Captain Cold/Leonard Snart. Trickster and Snart are sprung out of prison by Mardon, who wants their help in terrorizing Central City and getting revenge on The Flash for being a thorn in their side. Now hell-bent on killing the guy for defeating him, Trickster gladly throws in his lot with Mardon while the more honorable Snart peaces out and warns Barry that the baddies are planning something big.

This plan? Trickster's (and Mardon's honestly) most heinous scheme yet: disguising himself as a shopping mall Santa, Trickster distributes tons of bombs disguised as presents to hundreds of children from all around Central City, and is planning on having them go off and kill not just the children, but their families as well if Flash doesn't surrender himself to them. When Flash stands down, Mardon and Trickster force him to let them slowly brutalize him to death on threat of all those people's lives. But after the queen mother of all hilarious deus ex machinas/ass pulls, Flash's friends at S.T.A.R Labs are able to suck all the bombs Ito a singularity through the power of science and comic book logic, leading Flash to trounce the duo and save Christmas!

And so far? Trickster has been a no-show ever since. Mark Hamill played a Jokeresque alternate universe version of him as a bit part in season 3, and Axel finally returns in Season 4 alongside his mom Prank, but for more than two years James Jessie has been one of many passengers on the Arrowverse's Long Bus Trip, likely thanks to Star Wars' film revival and Mark Hamill playing an important role in it. A shame, because he's easily one of the franchise's best villains.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

Oh most definitely. Yeah sure, he doesn't rack up anywhere near the massive final or attempted bodycounts of Zoom, but the resources argument is very much in effect here. Zoom? He's a speedster which gives him access to ridiculously powerful abilities such as being able to kill scores of people in seconds as well as power a universe-destroying doomsday device, and that's not even going into the army of metahuman thugs he has at his beck and call. Trickster? A normal, powerless guy who relies on his wits and gizmos for his crimes.

And even then? Trickster is awful for a street level villain. Attempted mass murders isn't uncommon in the Arrowverse, but attempted mass-murders of children? Not so much, least of all The Flash. This combined with the attempted murders, his role in shaping Axel into a crazed maniac, and him setting up Flash to be tortured by Mardon do more than enough to let him stand out. I think he passes this part.

Any Redeeming Qualities or a valid Freudian Excuse?

A solid no on the excuse bit: he's a rabid childish psychopath who is unashamedly bloodthirsty and malicious while actively reveling in his villainy. As for redeeming qualities? Now that is interesting. See, until now I never even thought about proposing him because in his debut episode, Trickster was a damn good dad. He seemed to genuinely love Axel and was thrilled to not only have his son in his life, but have him help dear old dad with his tricks and heists. It was actually pretty touching and heartwarming despite them both being vicious terrorists.

...until Season 4's The Elongated Knight Rises came around and introduced us to Trickster's former lover and partner in crime Prank, who reconnects with Axel by breaking him out of prison and acting alongside him as the Monster of the Week. And in this episode, she points out that Jesse is a deadbeat scumbag of a dad who doesn't really care about her or Axel. Axel doesn't want to hear it, but she sites the fact that Jesse has been sprung out of prison twice now and never bothered to break Axel out either as proof. And this isn't just conjecture: when Mardon sprung him and Snart out of prison, Trickster never once mentioned his son and was solely fixated on killing the Flash for beating him. As of this episode? Trickster's affection for his son is less of a genuine desire for a father to spend time with his son, and more of an uncaring deadbeat grooming and using his kid as a tool to further his schemes.

I... can't say I really like this plot development because I loved the "bad guy, but good dad" aspect of the character and think retconning it killed some depth to him. But hey, that's the way things go. I'm just curious as to what you guys think: the episode never calls Prank's statement about Trickster not really caring about Axel into question and definitively frames Axel's character arc in the episode as a desperate overgrown kid making a futile attempt to impress a dad who doesn't care. So can we call this an example of a redeeming quality being nullified or never genuine to begin with?

Other than that, I'd say it's a slam dunk. Aside from the whole bit with his son, the only other thing that could be somewhat mitigating is that in the final scene of his second appearance, Trickster's reaction to the Flash convincing his old flame Patty Spivot not to execute a helpless, defeated Mark Mardon with over-the-top gushing of it being touching complete with exaggerated tears. However, it's a brief throwaway gag that feels like like it's framed to show The Trickster being a ham for humor's sake, so I personally wouldn't consider it disqualifying.

Final Thoughts?

As much as I'm annoyed by Trickster's love for his son bring retconned? I think at this point he counts, but am interested in what others have to think. I will however say that dumb retcons aside Trickster is a joy to watch. Not only is it likely the closest thing we'll ever get to Mark Hamill playing a live-action Joker, but it's a great call back to the 90's Flash show starring John Wesley Shipp where he played that show's Trickster as well. Anyway, let the voting commence!

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#110141: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:25:30 PM

[tup] Odd Thomas duo and Trickster.

Here are my Parasite Eve write-ups:

  • Mitochondria Eve-2 is a sadistic collection of sentient mitochondria who formed into a singular, powerful figure. Having materialized in Maya Brea’s kidney after being transplanted into actress Melissa Pearce, she later takes over her body by killing competing mitochondria and attaching to her cells. She plans to us Melissa to give birth to the Ultimate Being, a lifeform far more powerful than her with the power to instantly destroy humankind. Taking complete control over Melissa’s body during an opera performance, she causes everyone’s cells to burn up and combust. Knowing that Aya Brea is after her, she uses her powers to turn animals, both alive and undead, into vicious monsters to kill her. Working with Hans Klamp, she has him create special sperm to help her give birth, later having him gather up a group of people— including Daniel’s ex-wife and son (though he ends up escaping) —to Central Park, where she melts them into slime and has it hide in the sewers to later serve as her uterus. Having made Manhattan a complete ghost town due to her actions causing a widespread evacuation, she later raids the police station, having her mutated animals murder and injure surviving cops. Obtaining a sample of Klamp’s mitochondria-free sperm, she later gives birth to the Ultimate Being, tempting Aya to join her in her cause before trying to kill her after she refuses.

  • The aforementioned Hans Klamp is an anti-social misanthrope working with Eve-2 on her plan to eradicate humanity and allow mitochondria to take over, seeing them as superior to humans. As a teenage intern at St. Francis Hospital, he transplanted Maya Brea’s kidney and cornea into Melissa and Aya before getting fired over selling patient records. Partnering with Eve-2, he removes mitochondria from his own sperm to allow Eve-2 to easily give birth to the Ultimate Being, prideful to be involved in its creation. He later invites people on an HLA list to a play in Central Park, where they are turned into slime by Eve-2 to be used as her uterus, causing the deaths of many, including Daniel’s ex-wife Lorraine, with his son, Benjamin, escaping just in time. When Aya discovers his plans, he tries to kill her with a scalpel. Refusing to face arrest, Hans orders Eve-2 to burn him, chastising Aya for wanting to save him. Before his death, Hans engineered Maya’s body to unleash another Eve once Eve-2 gives birth to the Ultimate Being, starting the plan all over again if Eve-2 doesn’t succeed in her plans.

  • No. 9 is a psychotic, sentient Golem designed by Neo Ark to keep AMNC subjects under control. Originally a human who personally requested to become a Golem, he paid the scientists to retain his human intelligence and memories after the transformation. Becoming a “Hunter” for Neo Ark, he leads an attack at the Arkopolis Tower which kills many people, while sending in AMNC mimics to kill the SWAT team. He later attacks Aya Brea’s partner, Rupert Broderick, in a church, escaping when Aya sees him. Attacking Aya on top of the tower, he sets off a series of explosions that destroy the tower and the people inside. Ordered to use the Pupa’s powers to unleash a virus that would cause every human on earth to turn into AMNCs, he sends agent Kyle Madigan to lure Aya to the underground Neo Ark labs, where she frees the young Eve. Afterwards, No. 9 kidnaps Eve, threatening to kill her if Aya tries to stop him. Planning to use Eve’s mitochondria powers to awaken the Pupa and make it stronger, he orders Kyle to shoot Aya.

Also, before anybody asks, no one counts in The 3rd Birthday.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:30:21 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#110142: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:27:10 PM

I'm going to say yes to the Trickster. The motif and targets seem especially unique for a two-time villain in the Arrowverse (especially given that The Flash seems quite a bit lighter than, say, Arrow) and I think the new developments on that redeeming quality seem... well, deliberately meant to undermine it.

edited 24th Feb '18 7:52:01 PM by Scraggle

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#110143: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:27:15 PM

[tup]Double, Simon Varner and Ben Eckles

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#110144: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:30:12 PM

[tup] Golem, Varner, and Trickster, but [tdown] to Eckles.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#110145: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:34:29 PM

Tentative [tup] to the Trickster. Anyways Fried, I actually agree with you if Kirby could have a CM in the future. However, the franchise have a pretty jacked-up heinous standard.....Unless if they score on personal level a la Zykan or in both personal and quantity level and has no redeeming qualities, then I could see the work could have a CM in the future. But hey! Not all works need Complete Monsters so that's something

@Beast Also, Good luck with your horror game plot that you will write and hope you will get better soon from your depression.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#110146: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:40:50 PM

'Yes' to the Parasite Eve villains, and I think I can say 'Yes' to both Varner and Eckles. Handy 'Yes' to the Trickster there, as well. Hamill seemed to have a BLAST in that role, unlike in another of his more popular roles as of late...

Anywho, got my write-ups ready as well, so here they are. As an aside, The Tick (2016) has officially concluded its first season, so anyone who wishes to PM me about it is free to do so before the two week period passes.

  • Killgrave: The Purple Man: The titular "Purple Man," real name Zebediah Killgrave, is a lunatic with mind-controlling and a love for tormenting others. Having been terrorizing New York City through such means as forcing people to kill themselves and their loves ones, Killgrave is introduced ordering a young woman to jump to her death from a skyscraper. Later, Killgrave corners the two detectives tracking him, and, after having one shoot himself in the head, reveals he has already forced the other to murder his wife and child and enjoy the act, and ultimately orders the man to go kill himself after taunting Killgrave's Arch-Enemy Jessica Jones. Killgrave makes the most of his limited screentime to be a truly deplorable madman committing his crimes solely for his own amusement.

  • Spider-Man Unlimited: In the tie-in comic book to the animated series, the Chameleon is a monstrous Beastial capable of changing his appearance to those he has murdered. To use this to his advantage, Chameleon systematically stalks and murders over a dozen innocent people, then uses their identities to commit crimes. After being stopped by Spider-Man during a bank robbery that nearly leaves several people dead, Chameleon boasts his plans to ruin Spider-Man's name and crush the hope of his people by framing Spider-Man for the killings. Even in a world of dictators and monstrous symbiotes, the Chameleon stood out as a vile Serial Killer who disgusted Spider-Man more than any other villain he encountered.

  • Harry Pizer, also known as "the Skinless Man," was once a barrister who used his ability to stretch and contort his body to cheat and win cases. When contracted by the Weapon Plus program to fight the Russians during the Cold War, Pizer giddily used the opportunity to slaughter countless enemy troops, deeming it a righteous cause all the while before murdering his way into Otherworld to steal the powerful Orb. After being skinned alive due to Anti-Hero Fantomex's interference in his plans, Pizer only got worse as he assisted in orchestrating a bloody war against all of Otherworld, and later attempted to torture Fantomex and Psylocke to death in front of each other, starting by slicing Fantomex's face off. Eventually joining Daken's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants after murdering his ex-wife and her new husband, Pizer gleefully takes part in their plans to psychologically torture the young boy Evan into becoming the next Apocalypse, even tricking the boy into thinking his father figure Fantomex is alive only to reveal Pizer murdered him. When confronted by a vengeful Evan, Pizer offers him one final chance to revive Fantomex, only to swipe the offer away, simply laughing at the boy's gullibility. Pizer stands out even among the Brotherhood due to the fact that, while all the other members have alternative motives for trying to create a new Apocalypse, Pizer just wants the boy to kill millions of people as a final spiteful move towards Fantomex.

  • The Closer and Major Crimes: Phillip Stroh is the most personal, depraved, and recurring foe the Major Crimes division ever faced. When first encountering the team, Stroh is using his position as a defense attorney to draw attention away from the fact that he is a Serial Rapist who has raped over half-a-dozen women, having killed his latest target. After ditching his client to take the fall, Stroh returns after being ousted as a Serial Killer who has raped and murdered five women by strangling them to death with a chain, and though trying to stab the teenaged Rusty and his Arch-Enemy Brenda to death, Stroh is captured. Though locked in prison, Stroh's evil continues as he uses two men he assisted in becoming serial killers to kill specific targets for him, including his own minions, and attempt to broker a deal for a better life in prison for himself. Escaping confinement by murdering several innocent people, Stroh goes on a bloody rampage while tracking down his mother to acquire her fortune, butchering numerous people from his childhood including his step-parents and first girlfriend. Stroh is revealed to have been truly wicked since birth, as he tortured his step-sister, tried to burn his family alive, and aped and murdered three young girls while only a teenager. In the end, Stroh leaves a teenaged girl to slowly be strangled to death so he may escape, and uses his final moments to plead for mercy, only to try to strike down his enemies in return for their mercy.

And while I'm at it? I think MCU!Kilgrave could do with a bit of a rewrite, so let's knock that out. Here's the current:

  • Kilgrave, real name Kevin Thompson, is an amoral, mind-controlling sociopath responsible for the ruination and death of countless innocents throughout the series. As a child, Kilgrave turned his parents into his slaves after their painful experiments to cure him of a deadly disease resulted in him gaining mind-control abilities. Left by his parents when his torture of them became too severe, Kilgrave used his powers for everything from raping women, to ordering people who annoy him to kill themselves, and quickly developed a self-centered and petty personality, doing things like crushing a boy's toy car and then , or forcing a man to scald his own face with hot coffee for no reasons other than his own amusement. Turning the titular Jessica Jones into his slave, Kilgrave became obsessed with her when she broke free of his control after he ordered her to murder Reva Connors, who had videos of the experiments his parents performed on him. Kidnapping college athlete Hope Schlottman, Kilgrave raped her, then forced her to kill her own parents to send a message to Jessica. Revealed to have forcibly addicted Malcolm Ducasse to drugs so as to use him as a pawn, Kilgrave later commands Ruben, Jessica's kind neighbor, to slit his own throat while laying in her bed. When Kilgrave reunites with his parents, he has his mother stab herself to death, captures his father by using numerous innocents, including Hope, as hostages, then has him killed as well when he outlives his usefulness. Cornered by Jessica, Kilgrave orders dozens of people to start killing each other to distract her, and, in an attempt to hurt Jessica one last time, takes control of Trish Walker, Jessica's surrogate sister, in front of her while promising to rape Trish every day for the rest of her life. Refusing to take responsibility for his numerous crimes up until the end, Kilgrave, despite his Freudian Excuse, stands out as one of the most depraved villains in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

And rewrite, considerably shorter while still getting the point of his character across:

  • Kilgrave, real name Kevin Thompson, is an amoral, mind-controlling sociopath responsible for the ruination and deaths of countless lives throughout the series. After gaining his powers due to his parents' painful, though well-intentioned, experiments on him, Kilgrave turned them into his slaves and grew up getting everything he wanted, notably raping women, ordering those who annoyed him to maim or kill themselves, and tormenting children, simply because he felt like it. Kilgrave becomes obsessed with heroine Jessica Jones when she breaks free of his control after he forced her to kill an innocent, and begins ruining her life by addicting her neighbors to drugs and having them kill themselves in her house, ordering one of her clients to murder her own parents in front of Jessica, and tries to manipulate her into becoming his slave again by holding people hostage by the dozen. Though seemingly caring for his parents, Kilgrave reveals his true colors as he forces his mother to stab herself to death and has his father taken apart limb by limb until he is dead. When seemingly beaten, Kilgrave orders dozens of innocents to kill each other just to distract Jessica, and uses his final act to proclaim his intent to make Jessica's sister Trish his new slave to be raped and tortured at his leisure. A petty, childish bully who wanted everyone to be his playthings while never admitting true guilt to anything he did, Kilgrave is one of the most despicable villains the MCU has to offer.

Thoughts?

edited 24th Feb '18 7:48:44 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#110147: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:43:49 PM

[tup] To The Trickster. If the two-time monster of the week was the apatizer then Thwane will be the main course

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#110148: Feb 24th 2018 at 7:56:41 PM

Yes to Golem, Varner and the Trickster

No to Double and Eckles

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#110149: Feb 24th 2018 at 8:04:35 PM

[tup]Golem, Varner, and Trickster. [tdown] Double and Eckles.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#110150: Feb 24th 2018 at 10:27:46 PM

[tup]Golem, Varner, and Trickster (OH handy yes to one of my favourite Arrowverse villains). [tdown] Double and Eckles.

I have watched Odd Thomas as well. Very underrated and I recommend it but Eckles isn't much compared to his boss Varner. Suprising ending as well.

edited 24th Feb '18 10:29:34 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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