During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
No.
He had an Alas, Poor Villain moment played so straight it could be shot into orbit. That automatically disqualifies him from being a CM. It has to be noted that the Brotherhood version of the character doesn't count.
ACW just split the page up please.
edited 23rd Feb '18 2:32:34 PM by DocJamore
I disagree but that's obviously neither here nor there.
ACW, split the pages up please so we don't have to start including this kinda stuff in the writeups.
Agreed, scratch the splitting, let's just ax the modifier and leave the Manga and Brotherhood header alone.
edited 23rd Feb '18 2:37:54 PM by 43110
'Yes' to Father there.
And honestly? I say strike any mention of the anime from FMA!Father's entry, and I see no reason to split up a page because one Troper disagrees with something. Not only is it unnecessary and just confusing, but I'm of the belief that Father counts in both the manga AND Brotherhood, so....
Gonna have to postpone my write-ups for now, guys. Going to be on the road for the rest of the day and most of tomorrow, so they'll take a bit longer to get posted. As if that's any different than normal.
edited 23rd Feb '18 2:36:58 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Or just do a simple "Father in the manga is a being from beyond the Gate..."? That might be the best splitting the difference here.
Damn, that's true.
edited 23rd Feb '18 2:43:06 PM by ACW
I'm fine with making it more clear it's the manga version, but it needs to be written quite carefully either way. Or leave it as is. If there's a lot of talk about confusion, then I'd find making it clear for more needed. At this point, there doesn't seem to be an issue. IMO, doesn't need to go that far till an issue definitely exists.
Shadow?x7
@Lightysnake
Because the CM rules say that if a character counts in one adaptation and doesn't count in another adaptation than it has to be noted in the example. If you feel the the Brotherhood version counts you should write an effort-post explaining why the Alas Poor Villain moment for that version of the character would not disqualify him. I thought only the manga version of the character effort-posted.
The Alas poor villain trope is a trope that the Writer tells to the Audience NOT the characters in the story. It is the writers or the narrative saying to the audience directly at the end "this bad guy was not so bad". Whoever added the scene to the end of the anime version meant to make the character a lot more sympathetic the in the manga. It is a valid example that can not just be wiggled around, ignored, or discounted.
edited 23rd Feb '18 3:01:34 PM by DocJamore
I am not entirely sure how having the Father on there is an issue. Isn't Brotherhood and the manga the same continuity basically? (I just got here, so I'm not keen on all the details.)
Also, I have a recommendation.
What’s the work?
The Kirby fanfiction Fox Tails
.
Who is she?
The Big Bad, Kara.
What did she do?
She's a kitsune who gets her kicks out of tormenting innocent Cappies. Her Establishing Character Moment is showing up to the Cappy village and slaughtering one of them in front of everybody in cold blood and killing about twenty more who were running to safety. After that, she left a message scratched into the ground declaring that she'd come back to do it again. She did exactly that and caught a woman’s young son and ripped him to pieces. After that, she mocked them for not trying to keep her out by scratching a message into the walls. And the woman, Mrs. Harper, was deeply traumatized by it.
The Cappies' first attempt at defending against Kara was to set up more guards and build a wall. While they were able to keep her out for a few days, she found a way through and ripped up Mrs. Harper while she was still alive after a failed attempt to fight her off. An enraged Mr. Harper tossed a spear at her, but she dodged and the spear hit his wife. In his grief, Kara escaped and left another message saying that their guards wouldn't protect them for long.
A group of guards, trained by Mr. Harper, went to Kara's territory to kill her once and for all, but they were quickly taken out by magical traps and ripped to shreds before they knew what happened. After trying to escape, Kara was able to take out the survivors and only let one return with a message scratched into his back:
''You are starting to bore me. Keep this up, I may just break into your worthless little village and slaughter the lot of you. Children will perish in front of their parents, wives will be ripped to pieces in front of their husbands, who will be left to live with their failures as men! So please, try to keep my interest.''
This is what prompted them to call for Kirby's help in taking her out. When Kirby came into her territory, she attempted to rip him to pieces, but when she couldn’t and Kirby was able to scratch her cheek, she started running. Only out of fear did she reveal that she trapped their souls in "the orb of agony." She killed them because she was having trouble sleeping. Kirby was enraged. He destroyed the orb to release the souls, and Kara was only concerned with how she would possibly sleep. In retaliation, Kirby killed her.
Mitigating factors?
She only gave up the secret of where the souls were kept out of fear and not because of remorse. She was still concerned with getting sleep. There aren't any mitigating factors that would count for anything.
Heinous Standard?
She kills them both for sport and to trap their souls so she can sleep. I'd say she exceeds the standard.
Final verdict?
Definitely counts.
Hegel, we've been openly talking about that note on Frey's writeup and we've shot it down. I can't recall too many other opinions about the quote but I know one other person agrees with me that there's no need for a quote switch.
By the way, Clown, this... isn't your fic, is it? We have very strict rules on creators proposing from their own works; from the fact the fic itself seems written purely to characterize the villain as a CM (seriously, nobody else is given any characterization whatsoever) and the fact it was written exactly two weeks ago, I'm incredibly suspicious. I'm seeing a very similar pattern with the other work on the blog, All We Need is Peace, which doesn't characterize anyone but the main villain and bases the story entirely around pointlessly evil deeds.
edited 23rd Feb '18 3:38:18 PM by Scraggle
Yeah I think the fates of both Fathers are pretty much the same as I didn't really see any Alas, Poor Villain in both versions. So I second Lighty's opinion on just including the manga version in the entry as unnecessary.
to Kara
edited 23rd Feb '18 3:37:16 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffOk i added just in case that someone is lazy to use search function. In your opinion, who is biggest Asshole Victim of Complete Monster? I would choose Vargo Hoat and Show!Craster.
Tomorrow morning, barring any objections, I'll replace Father with this
. and combine the 2 Cross films under a tree.
![]()
Have an explanation for the incredibly coincidental date, then, or who wrote them? I'm going to blanket vote "no" all of the stories on the blog unless there's any focus on characterization other than the villain and the deeds — and if there should be evidence these are your fics, a moderator will be called in.
As for the biggest Asshole Victim of a CM? Tough to say given that any CM who bites the dust is an asshole, but one of the biggest and the most satisfying was Prime Minister Honest from Akame Ga Kill.
edited 23rd Feb '18 4:01:37 PM by Scraggle

I don't really think it's necessary. The manga is the original. I don't think there need be much separation for something that's an almost identical adaptation of it.