During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
..I guess his Snokiness' shadow is gonna hang for a while, huh? Can we just... stop? We are talking in circles until we get confirmation on more of his life. Or Lucasfilm could just say "we're done with him"... which I would like if only to see the fandom meltdown.
As for Hux, that's not a legitimate Even Evil Has Standards. Remember, he hates Kylo Ren. Any chance he can get to undermine him he will take. Sure that won't be important in IX nudges and winks Also, pragmatism. Even the cruel, egomaniacal and sadistic Hux knows when to get back to business.
Little trivia, the moment when Hux tries to shoot Ren was suggested by his actor, Domhnall Gleeson. He felt, that, with all the crap Hux - rightfully and cathartically - was exposed to, the audience needed a reminder of just what sort of person he really was.
......Huh.
I'm genuinely surprised over the outcome of Serengheti. Kinda expected the votes to be split if anything, but seems like there's at least 15
votes and only one
. .....Well now.
Here's the write-up for the Elephantmen villains.
- Elephantmen:
- Dr. Kazushi Nikken is a MAPPO Corporation scientist responsible for creating the eponymous Elephantmen, as well as being responsible for the pessimistic, dreary state the world is currently in. Driven by his obsession, Dr. Nikken spent trillions of dollars attempting to make a new species in Africa. After numerous failures, he finally succeeded after kidnapping women and fertilizing their eggs with animal DNA. Longing to make more Elephantmen, Dr. Nikken had hundreds of thousands of women around the area kidnapped and subjected to the painful procedure; the men and children, however, were murdered. After each woman gave birth, they were immediately killed and their bodies were discarded. With hundreds of thousands of Elephantmen at his disposal, Dr. Nikken had the creatures tortured and brainwashed throughout their lives, and raised them to become savage soldiers who were bred to kill. When United Nations discovered what MAPPO has been doing, the Elephantmen were deployed across Africa and Europe, resulting in a war that led to the deaths of millions. Even after Dr. Nikken is caught and arrested, he tries to excuse his actions by reminding the U.N. of all the good MAPPO has done, before immediately reverting back to his smug, god-complex behavior.
- Joshua Serengheti is a ruthless Black Market dealer and Sahara's Arch-Enemy. As a teenager, Serengheti discovered how to sell the drug known as "mirror" in order to make a profit, and soon came under the belief that anything anyone wanted could be sold for money. He soon began selling all forms of illegal items around the world, including humans, weapons, and drugs. After Serengheti's lover gave birth to Sahara, he sold her off to Mappo, and forced his daughter to watch as everyone in the village was either kidnapped or murdered. For seven years, Serengheti tortured his daughter by having his men rape her and even had her circumsised while she was still a child. Several years after Sahara escapes and falls in love with Obadiah Horn, he sets out to destroy his daughter's reputation. Serengheti attempts to murder Horn while he's in the hospital—along with many medical workers—and later sends Tusk's severed head to them in a box as a warning. Upon finding out Sahara is pregnant and will soon marry Horn, he and his men roam around the city brutally interrogating anyone who has information on Sahara's whereabouts and murdering those who refuse to comply. Once he obtains enough information, Serengheti attacks Sahara and Horn at their wedding, mercilessly cutting down innocent civilians before he kills Panya, Sahara's close friend, and kidnaps Sahara's baby. Even in a society filled with literal "monsters," Serengheti stands out as a depraved man no different from the beasts he despises so much.
Silverblade 2: I'm happy to give the Anthony Ainley incarnation of the master a rewrite (to be honest, I've been thinking about giving both Classic Masters write ups a rewrite for awhile now) if no one mind me taking it on-board.
I maybe found another reason why Turbo doesn't qualify in discussion for Monster Disney page. This is written by troper Goldenson 5
For all of you who think King Candy/Turbo from Wreak-It Ralph belongs here, your wrong You see Turbo will do any thing for attention, even reprogram another game, but the reason for this is seeing how he loved to win just like in his own game, Long story short he was programmed to want attention.
Forgive me for derailing thread.
Cool. I'm thinking of making it "After his father was killed by Wolverine, the Founder, seeing his father as the ideal of his own Social Darwinism, seeks vengeance..." so people don't think it's a case of Even Evil Has Loved Ones.
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Didnt Ancologica crush the ribbon from that little girl coldly and shows he really doesnt care about them and heck he even says that hes not that personaon anymore. Hes an awfully written villain but hes not going anywhere.
edited 16th Feb '18 8:47:51 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Here is proof that he still cared about his family:
Alright. I want to propose another candidate right now and it's from a work that is dream related again. Special thanks for Lighty,43110 and Miraculous for helping me solving some issues that I have with this candidate.....Yeah, this candidate is a bit of a tricky one. But I'll try at my best to EP her. Without further ado, let's begin
What's the Work
Dream Eater Merry is a 2011 anime that tells us the story about a mysterious girl who wore a strange clothes called Merry Nightmare who falls on Yumeji Fujiwara—a boy with a strange powers that is an ability to see people’s aura and lives a comfortable live with his childhood friend and the literature club that he joined—one day and finds the way to his world and here’s the thing about Merry.....She is actually a dream demon or dream eater that who's searching for a way to get back to her world. Yumeji decides to help her. But meanwhile, an evil demon called Pharos Hercules is leading other dream demons to make humans into their vessels in order to raise an army, killing those that oppose him which causes humans to lose sight of their goals and ambitions. Yumeji eventually becomes Merry's partner, using his ability to scout out dream demons so Merry can hunt them.
Now the candidate in question is actually anime exclusive and the anime is vastly different from the manga altogether. And the candidate in question is a vicious dream demon that is called Mystletainn
Who Is She/What Has She Done
Mystletainn is a malevolent dream demon who may appeared as a sweet girl on the outside however, she’s a vicious monster on an inside. Her first appearance, while we don’t see her, actually is on Episode 2 when she traps and tries to eat one of the Dream Demons named Serio who have been helpful to his own partner, Yumi and she ask if she would need to torture him and after he got eaten by Mysteltainn.......Yumi then abandons her great ambition as a nurse. That’s one incident in the series, but it got mentioned again by one of Yumeji’s friend, Saki, in Episode 6 regarding people who are losing their dreams,goals and motivations.
She makes an actual appearance in Episode 7, A Beach Episode of the anime, in which she battles a Dream Demon and let herself lost however, she then proceeds to torture said Dream Demon by tangling him into her vines and kills him with a sadistic glee on her face. This happens again in Episode 9 in which there is a horrible truth behind it......It was revealed that Yumeji’s benevolent teacher, Ijima was actually the vessel of Mystletainn and takes a delight ruining people’s dream. When he met with Mystletainn herself, he conjured about a plan about forcing dream demons into his studends and then sent her to destory their hopes and dreams which Mystletainn takes delight to.
In Episode 11, It was revealed that Mystletainn had forced a dream demon named Parade to make Isana as his vessel, in which it was against Parade’s own will. After this, she then imprisons a confused Isana into a globe of water, hoping that by nearly drowning her, Parade would come out to save her however he still did not come out. After growing bored, she released Isana who fell into consciousness and then look for Parade so that she could eat him. Fortunately, she was stopped by Merry and Yumeji. When confronted, Mystletainn taunted Merry by wearing her hat and asking cruelly if her head really was as big as her hat and then proceeds to deliver a beatdown towards her. She then proceeds to chain Parade and puts it near Isana’s heart so that she could pierce both them. When Chizururu stepped in and said she would protect Isana and her dreams no matter what, Mistleteinn then grew bored and said she'd let them go until next time with the promise to kill eveyrone of them. Before the final battle, we saw in the flashbacks that Mystletainn slaughtered a lot of Dream Demons including Chizuru Kawanami’s dream demon, Lestion’s comrades. This resulted Lestion forming a grudge towards her and seeks for venegance for his fallen comrades.
In the next and final battle, Everyone entered Engi’s daydream as their battleground and during the battle, Mystletainn then changes the landscape of Engi’s daydream and then took Isana as a hostage. When Merry and Engi tries at their best to attack her, Mystletainn dodges both of their attacks but fortunately they still can hold off her and then Engi proceeds to deliver the final blow to her. However, this fails and then Mystletainn stabs Engi in her hip-area with a large thorn. Because of this, Yumeji then started to try and fight her.
However, he was mortally injured by Mystletainn attacks. But Lestion then tries to attack her and then sacrficed himself to make the final bullet for his gun to kill Mystletainn where Chizuru fired it. Unfortunately, this erases Chizuru’s dreams and memories. Even though it was direct hit, this was proven to be futile as she still did not die, and mocked the emotionless and empty Chizuru about the bullet that did not bear the promised fruit. Because of this, Merry tried to fight Mystletainn but her attempt was stopped when Mystletainn trapped Merry in an white rose-bud called The bud of Despair hoping Merry would be deystroyed by her own sorrow the bud would force her to remeber.
Yumeji then started to try and fight her with John Doe's Guiltion-like saw, where he mortally injured, but still kept going, planting a bit of fear into her, wondering what made him so strong. Fortunately, thanks to Yui and Yumeji’s help, Merry destroyed The bud of Despair that imprisoned her and was now ready to fight Mystletainn.
In the last ditch effort to beat the two dream-demons, she swallowed Parade and taughted the two of what they were going to do now that her freinds dreams were in her belly. Merry however, with newly found confidence from Yumeji, slammed her hand onto Mystletainn's chest, where half of her body distegrated right were Leon's bullet had hit, proving his and Chizuru's sacrifce was not in vain. Parade then jumped out from her torn stomach, resulting in an immense amount of pain for Mystletainn. He jumped into Merry's arms and thanked her for saving him before she sent him back to the dream word.
Mystletainn now damaged and afraid asked Merry who was she and how she did what she did. Merry responded to her that she was the dream-demon that swallowed up nasty nightmares like her before punching her harshly in her right cheek and finishing that she was Dream Eater Merry. Mystletainn only had seconds to see Engi coming to her, before she was sliced in half by Engi's sword disappearing in red vines leaves.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Alright, I think this is the breaking point where Mystletainn qualifies or not. And she got two weird mitigating traits that immediately subverted in the end and here's the arguments that I will bring:
1.The first problem is Mystletainn's Moral agency. Lestion said that Mystletainn was being formed by negative emotions, such as hate and spite, in the deepest pits of hell and you can argue that she was made of evil. However, any doubts of her moral agency issues is obliterated once you saw her species, Dream Demons, are capable to fully understand human emotion such as love,contempt,happiness,sadness,revenge etc. This happens with Merry, who is also a Dream Demon herself. This happens with Engi, who despite being a benevolent Dream Demon, wanted to seek a vengeance after her sister death etc. And Mystletainn herself is a sadist who takes pleasure on what she does and she is a bit of easily bored person. as she loves to seeking new thrills by slaughtering all the dream demons actually (Evidenced in Lestion's flashback) so yeah, I think she passes the moral agency test.
2.Another issue is the dialogue that she has with her vessel, Ijima and basically it sounds like this:
- Mystletainn: It looks like you’re enjoying yourself. What can you see from those depths?
- Ijima: (Seeing the candidate in question’s reflection in the water) I can see the face of your cruelty. And the soul in which it grows.
- Mystletainn: That goes for you, too. This is the first time I’ve had a vessel so similar to myself. You taught me a thrilling pastime. Sow seeds without water, and flowers won’t blossom.
- Ijima: Harvest them.
- Mystletainn: If I hadn’t meet you, I would’ve just killed them.
- Ijima: Your victims’ wishes should ripen to their fullest. Whether you let them came true or not is another matter. (Proceeds to tore down the sleeve of the Candidate in Question shirt)....Kawanami, Tachibana....all the pieces are in place. All that’s left...
I P Md Lighty,43110 and Miraculous about this dialogue and they ruled this dialogue as not mitigating and as for their relationship.....Only Ijima that shows concern towards her and they rarely interact that much other than that dialogue.....So yea.....easy pass for her.
Heinous Standard
Alright, Like I said earlier, Mystletainn is an anime exclusive character and the anime is a different version of the manga altogether so here are the guys who contributes to the heinous standard in the anime:
Yes, I'm going to be honest, It was Ryota Ijima who actually come up with the plan to shatter people's hopes and dreams and he does have some extra crime on his belt such as delivering a No-Holds Barred Beatdown to an innocent girl who already lost her dreams until she bleeds and dies. However, Mystletainn was happily executing Ijima's plan and her extra crimes before she met Ijima had more bloodshed compared to him. And keep in mind that he may or may not count given that there is one scene where he shouts Mystletainn's name after she got shot by Chizuru sooooo yea..........
There's also the real big bad, Pharos Hercules......Who, despite murdering one girl and her dream demon, doesn't count at all due to lack of screentime compared to Mystletainn and we don't know much about him other than he wants to merge reality world and dream world so that Dream Demons could live in a human world without a vessel.
And while Lestion was forced to sacrifice his own allies in the past......He doesn't count at all given that he was the hero after all and has a pretty huge Freudian Excuse and the reason why he sacrifice them so that he could kill Mystletainn and end her reign of terror for good soooo yea........I think she easily passes here.
Final Verdict
Thoughts? I was unsure about her myself. But with the help of Miraculous,Lighty and 43110. I'm confident to EP her so yeah.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."That's not proof. That's him mentioning it. I mentioned it in my effortpost and we ruled it as non-disqualifying when he's shown finding the dragon victim's ribbon in the movie, destroying it and laughing how 'worthless' his past is. That and his goals are "destruction and kill everything that lives" after "become dragon"
Oh, and as we discussed, Elfen? Yes to that.
edited 16th Feb '18 8:40:08 AM by Lightysnake
As you discussed with me as well.
to Mystleteen
BTW anyone famialr with the manga of that as it looks like a few people could count there as well from the character pages.
The dream eater merry manga
edited 16th Feb '18 8:54:12 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Which manga
Ah alright....Makes sense. I may or may not going to read it but eh, it depends on my capability of reading though. I could try to cover Twin Star Exorcist manga as well but well see
edited 16th Feb '18 8:55:28 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."43110: Fair enough.
I'll
Mystletainn. That dialogue seems more In Love with Your Carnage than anything mitigating.
@ACW. Why aren't Asoaif rewrites put in drafts?
Speaking about Fairy Tail, why Manga!Faust doesn't qualify?
Found this:
Tragic Villain: The Final Battle paints him as one. Over the course of his 400-year life pursuing dragons out of Revenge for taking away everything he cared about, destruction and mayhem became the only things he ever knew. By the time Natsu finally ends his life with the help of all the friends and allies he gathered over the years, Acnologia realizes just how empty his own existence was in comparison. Can i cut it?

So how's this?