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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#109201: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:34:26 PM

[tup] Soth.

[up][up] I don't think that qualifies as Even Evil Has Standards, he's just annoyed that Kylo is focusing all their power and attention on one man. Its a matter of practicality not ethics.

[up] Well its possible. There are no current characters I think will qualify in the near future but new qualifiers could always be introduced. I don't think the heinous bar has risen so high that no one else can qualify.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#109202: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:42:32 PM

Well I'm quite surprised Snoke didn't make the cut at the end, though given the high heinous the Star Wars has, I guess I understand why. Hopefully we get to see more of Snoke's backstory later on, or perhaps Snoke will appear in the 9th movie either coming back from the dead or having faked his previous death.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#109203: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:50:37 PM

[up] The main problem Snoke has is that he does not utilize his resources to the extent say, Palpatine does and despite his abuse of Ben, he never even contemplates betraying him, he just expresses disappointment at him. It is bizarre that Phasma, possibly the most disliked villain in the movies is the only sequel villain that counts.

EDIT: So, is anyone here aware of the warcraft setting and would like to PM about the next expac? Just wondering, not trying to bother about it, also the star wars topic probably does not have much purpose at this time though it is safe to be sure of what the odds of future villains counting are.

edited 15th Feb '18 8:15:32 PM by Knack2baby

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#109204: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:18:27 PM

Yeah, I'd give Snoke time for extra characterization for the EU — hence why he's been put on the "wait-and-see." No way this is "the end" for him.

Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#109205: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:24:14 PM

@Scraggle Btw, what villain from valiant is that? Your last profile picture was a picture of wraith I think.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#109206: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:31:44 PM

[tup] Soth

Batch time, starting with the baddies I've EP'd:

Grimm Fairy Tales:

  • The Vapor Lord, from the I Love NY arc, is a vicious vampire who took over a children's hospital, feeding on the young patients for over a decade and killing many of them. Seemingly stopped by Robyn and her ally, the Vapor Lord arises in the body of one of his victims, slaughtering a mortician and attacking the sister of the possessed. Targeting a populated area, the Vapor Lord goes on to gouge himself on the blood of countless more innocents.
  • Dark Web: The unnamed man known as, "The Boss" is the head of a depraved group that captures young women and allows wealthy clients to hunt them for sport. Uploading the videos of the hunts onto the dark web to get more money, the Boss has his hunters follow a specific ritual to ensure a large audience. Capturing Ilona after murdering her father, her brother is kept captive and threatened with death unless she provides the depraved entertainment the Boss demands.
  • The Dead Girl: Carl is a Serial Killer who violently kills prostitutes, taking their undergarments and shoes for his fetish. Having claimed at least eight victims, Carl constantly abandons his lonely wife to go on his murder sprees. Picking up young mother Krista, Carl stabs her to death, leaving her body in a farm field after he has had his sick fun.
  • Kite: "The Emir", head of a human trafficking organization, kidnaps kids to sell to wealthy clients. Having his thugs abduct the children, he has one young girl's parents murdered in front of her before taking her. After capturing Sawa, the Emir tries to torture information out of her by deep frying her hand. When she breaks free and prepares to kill him, The Emir argues the cops he has had killed—which she believes includes her father—were "unreasonable" for not accepting his bribes.
  • Scary or Die: Keith, from The Crossing, is a friend of Buck, along with whom he hunts down and kills anyone they believe to be an illegal immigrant at the Mexican border. Having amassed countless victims, as indicated by the graves at their hunting ground, Keith is proud of his racist killings. When one victim explains he is a US citizen, Keith and Buck ignore him because of his appearance, Buck happily slitting his throat while Keith guns down another victim who tries to flee in terror.

... and my rewrites:

X-Men:

  • The Founder is the son of a robber-baron and proud of his wicked father's abuse of his workers. After his father was killed by Wolverine, the Founder seeks vengeance, forming a cult, the Red Right Hand, with Wolverine's other enemies, to hunt him down. Selling his soul to a demon lord to damn Wolverine to hell, the Founder then has anyone who was ever kind to Wolverine hunted down and killed. After Wolverine escapes from hell, kills his minions, the Mongrels and hunts the Red Right Hand down, he finds the cult has committed suicide. Leaving a tape recording, the Founder reveals the Mongrels were really Wolverine's lost children, as a final mockery.
  • The Condor: Corrupt company partner Nigel Harrington and his mercenary, Taipan, are a despicable, greedy duo who kidnap the homeless and use Nigel's company chips to mentally enslave them. Giving them enhanced abilities, Nigel and Taipan have them commit crimes to test the chip, not caring that the chips burn their hearts out and kill them. Wishing for stronger test subjects, Nigel has Taipan kidnap skateboard enthusiasts, repeating the enslavement process on them. Upon his scheme being discovered by his business partners, Nigel has his mind controlled pawns kill them to cover his secret. Luring his partners' son, Tony, to the scene of the crime, Nigel has him beaten and crippled; Taipan going on to manipulate Tony's cousin into setting Tony's house on fire. Attempting to sell their technology to terrorists, they do not care how it is used, as long as they profit. Having no loyalty to one-another, Taipan kills Nigel to keep all the money herself.
  • Doubutsu Sentai Zyuohger: Lord Ginis is an alien with an inferiority-superiority complex, who despises being made of Moebas, beings he looks down upon. Creating the Deathgaliens, Ginis uses them to serve as his warriors in the "Blood Games"—wherein he challenges and destroys other worlds—currently having done so to 99 planets and now targeting Earth. Creating an ever collapsing barrier around planet Earth, Ginis plans to allow it to destroy the world unless the heroes managed to deactivate it. Although his barrier is stopped, Ginis sets up a destructive robot to continue his genocidal plans. Cunning and manipulative, Ginis tricks the friendless Miso(u) Mondu into becoming his servant and hires a sadistic alien hunter to make his "game" of planetary destruction more interesting for himself. When one of his men betrays Ginis after finding he was responsible for the destruction of his home planet, Ginis defeats and spares him, before watching with amusement as the broken man insanely destroys everything in his path. After all but one of his followers are killed, Ginis decides to end the Blood Game by injecting his cells into the core of the Earth, wiping it out entirely. Incapable of loyalty or gratitude, when the Zyuohgers discover Ginis' body to be made of Moebas and reveal it to his last remaining follower and she declares her loyalty to him in spite of this, Ginis kills her off for daring to pity him, cruel to the end.
  • Ecco the Dolphin: From the Defenders Dolphin's Nightmare stage, the two unnamed Exalted Ones lack the redeeming qualities of the leader, Mutaclone and are merely vile supremacists. Using their power over their oppressive group, the Clan, the Exalted Ones order numerous atrocities, such as using whales as living generators, cutting off the food supply of a village they cast out before sending sharks to attack them and torturing a member of the dolphin resistance. Unrelentingly cruel, the Exalted Ones show nothing but pride in their action, one even saying they believe compassion to be a weakness.

I will do Guildenstern later.

edited 16th Feb '18 6:59:49 AM by 43110

Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#109207: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:33:30 PM

The idea of two dolphins being purely evil was awesome from the start.grin

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#109208: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:38:46 PM

@ Snoke: He has similar power as Sidious, but doesn't do nearly as much awful stuff with it and is a more standard super-dictator. Also, we don't much about him

@ Dr Psyche: That incident wasn't Even Evil Has Standards, it's Pragmatic Villainy. Even if it's one man, it's a bad idea to waste so much ammo when they have someone more important(the Rebel Alliance) to attack. And Hux was right since it was a distraction by Luke. Though he already has enough sympathetic qualities and levity due to how he's treated to avoid being a CM, at least for now. Though that doesn't mean he couldn't evolve into one if he gets more directly nefarious and effective like, say, Orson Krennic

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#109209: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:41:28 PM

[up][up][up]For Ginis Misou Mondu is a main charcater and the Sixth Ranger. So you can change it to :

tricks the friendless Misao Mondo(u)

edited 15th Feb '18 8:43:05 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#109210: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:42:38 PM

On Snoke, he's actually significantly weaker than Sidious, as unlike Sheev his frail-old-man persona isn't an act - despite his power in the Force he really is straight-up infirm. And I'll second us being nowhere near done with him; he'll probably get a novel like many other villains have. Assuming he's even really dead.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#109211: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:46:46 PM

@Knack: Not a villain. That's Solar from Valiant, from #14 where Mothergod is defeated.

Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#109212: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:49:31 PM

@Scraggle Either way it's cool. cool

edited 15th Feb '18 10:00:50 PM by Knack2baby

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#109213: Feb 15th 2018 at 10:49:10 PM

@43110 : I made a mistake his name is actually Misao Mondo(u)

[up]By the way if you think OVA Amon having no redeeming qualities compared to normal is weird. You should check out anime Lan Asuka from Devilman Lady whoose also on the Devilman monster page. Her manga counterpart was an Anti-Hero while her anime incarnation is a depraved Psycho Lesbian Big Bad

The villains from Works by Go Nagai are the poster child for Adaptational Villainy as adaptions tend to take away there redeeming quailties and make them fall into this trope.

edited 15th Feb '18 10:53:40 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#109214: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:37:31 PM

@ 4311: It's Mutaclone. You spelled it wrong.

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#109215: Feb 16th 2018 at 12:37:00 AM

Say, Scraggle, I know she does a lot, but is there anyway to trim Mothergod's entry down? It's 340 words!

HT: Founder's rewrite okay with you?

edited 16th Feb '18 12:40:34 AM by ACW

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#109216: Feb 16th 2018 at 1:21:36 AM

For Kamen Rider Ex Aid. Just a slight tweak. Since Taiga the guy whoose girlfriend that Manasume killed is a main charcater/villain/ The Rival. I fell we can mention his name without too much of an issue.

  • Original : Masamune Dan/Kamen Rider Cronus is the first CEO of Genm Corp., a game company he uses to upload people into the digital world. First appearing as a victim of his son, Kuroto's, misdeeds, it is revealed that Masamune willingly allowed his child to infect and kill countless people for his own plans. After taking charge of the deadly video game, Kamen Rider Chronicle, Masamune tricks people into playing the game, collecting their data once they are in it to control their lives. Destroying any who oppose him, Masamune also uses his control of data to delete a woman when her lover refuses to murder someone for Masamune. Reprogramming the Final Boss of Chronicle so it will digitize the entire world, Masamune seeks to control everyone's life. When offered the chance for redemption, Masamune kills himself, making it impossible to revive those who died in his game, controlling and spiteful to the end.

  • slight tweak : Masamune Dan/Kamen Rider Cronus is the first CEO of Genm Corp., a game company he uses to upload people into the digital world. First appearing as a victim of his son, Kuroto's, misdeeds, it is revealed that Masamune willingly allowed his child to infect and kill countless people for his own plans. After taking charge of the deadly video game, Kamen Rider Chronicle, Masamune tricks people into playing the game, collecting their data once they are in it to control their lives. Destroying any who oppose him, Masamune also uses his control of data to delete a woman when her lover Taiga refuses to murder someone for Masamune. Reprogramming the Final Boss of Chronicle so it will digitize the entire world, Masamune seeks to control everyone's life. When offered the chance for redemption, Masamune kills himself, making it impossible to revive those who died in his game, controlling and spiteful to the end.

Added to drafts.

edited 16th Feb '18 1:22:15 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#109217: Feb 16th 2018 at 1:23:01 AM

[up] Works for me.

BTW, 43110, whenever you get to it, please add your batch to the Drafts in the appropriate place.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#109218: Feb 16th 2018 at 1:59:07 AM

Speaking of entries who could be rewritten. The Ainley Master entry in Whoniverse is a bit lacking IMO.

  • The resultant Anthony Ainley incarnation lacked any sort of foresight or consideration for the consequences of his actions, and, in a way, that made him even more dangerous. His first appearance has him accidentally obliterate approximately a quarter of the entire universe and go on to cause further death and destruction almost for the sheer fun of it. This incarnation of The Master was far less reserved, murdering any in his way and treating their deaths with a cool, amused disdain. Even the extermination of countless billions was nothing more than a pebble in the Master's path.

It just mentions the accidental destruction of a quarter of the universe in his first appearance, not giving a shit about it and nothing else. I see on Tardis wikia that Ainley appeared in 11 stories and one video game (that may or may not be canon), I can't believe there's nothing more to say. I'd do it myself… but… I have yet to catch up with the old series...

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#109219: Feb 16th 2018 at 2:06:14 AM

[up]Yeah I havent caught up either. So cant do it either (talk to MGD 107 who did the rewrites for the old school villains ) but hes actually the worst version of The Master with a metric crapton of atrocities thanks to being around the longest that arent in this write-up but should be.

On a side note. Interesting fact is that hes an example like zoom/kilgrave where he's a 99% monster for a long time before becoming 100% in his final appearance Survival

[down]sorry about that. Its been a bit since I watched and I got confused. Could acw make the change.

edited 16th Feb '18 2:21:51 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
n3xus I am the King! from Somewhere in the Mirror World Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: In season
I am the King!
#109220: Feb 16th 2018 at 2:18:00 AM

[up] Here's a correction of that one in regards on Ex-Aid entry: Masamune also uses his control of data to delete a woman when her lover Hiiro Kagami refuses to murder someone for Masamune.

This is because Hiiro is the one who wants to bring Saki, his girlfriend, back to life while he formed an alliance with Masamune, once Hiiro refused to kill a heavily wounded Taiga in a surgery operation, Masamune deletes her data to spite Hiiro for his transgressions against him.

edited 16th Feb '18 2:18:14 AM by n3xus

This is all Zi-O's fault!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#109222: Feb 16th 2018 at 3:42:10 AM

What is worse, raping children yourself or manipulating mentally retarded person to rape them?

I know that this will never happens, but if we found out in season 8 of Game Of Thrones that Red wedding was Lothar's idea, what would happen?

Would Book!Craster be cut, if sixth book reveals that Rorge raped his daughter and served his children with her to Biter?

Is there a possibility for Book!Joffrey to be cut, because of heinous standard?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#109223: Feb 16th 2018 at 4:02:20 AM

[up][up]Change it to :

To delete a woman when her lover refuses to murder a heavily injured Taiga for Manasume

edited 16th Feb '18 4:05:18 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#109224: Feb 16th 2018 at 4:16:14 AM

[up] And, done.

[up][up] I'm not even touching that first one; if that DID happen, Walder would likely be a cut; nope, Craster still has MASSIVE incestuous rape; I don't know the work, but I'd say both Joffreys still count.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#109225: Feb 16th 2018 at 4:19:37 AM

[up][up][up] I don't really understand the point of those questions. The first one is meaningless, both are awful things to do we don't need to debate about which is "worse". The second and third will never happen, we'd just be discussing pure hypotheticals. And Joffrey is not getting cut, certainly not due to failing the heinous standard.


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