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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#109026: Feb 14th 2018 at 10:33:22 AM

I'm wondering if Rorge can be trimmed as well (though it's not as bad as Gregor's).

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#109028: Feb 14th 2018 at 10:40:42 AM

@DemonDuck: That's fine.

I won't rush anyone with the voting here. And if Serengheti ends up not counting, eh. It's no biggie, especially with his backstory.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#109029: Feb 14th 2018 at 11:03:10 AM

Serengeti is a yes in my book. Awful backstory, yes. But what he does goes way, way over the line even for that.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#109030: Feb 14th 2018 at 11:07:07 AM

No issue saying 'Yes' to Serengheti. His backstory sounds like a carbon copy of the second Cobra Commander from G.I. Joe (IDW), who was raised first as a slave then became a Child Soldier. And much like the Commander, it sounds to me gets no sympathy or sadness attributed to this, even being proud of his status.

There's a point for me where a backstory seriously jacks up a character's agency and mental faculties....being raised as a killer or soldier generally doesn't pass that point for me.

edited 14th Feb '18 11:08:03 AM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#109031: Feb 14th 2018 at 11:11:35 AM

I'll also give a ya to Serengeti

Just finished the first season of Yuojo Senki and I'm going to reserve the movie sequel that's set to come out this year for discussion.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#109032: Feb 14th 2018 at 11:34:57 AM

Honestly? I'd say yes to Serengheti. And Nikken remains an easy keep, yes.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#109034: Feb 14th 2018 at 11:51:08 AM

[tup]to Serengheti.

As the person who EP Tomas Torquemada I have to say that statement about peace is utter BS. Many villains in the AC universe tries to justify their goal but their actions completely contradicts their “claims” Tomas is no exception. Also many examples including Reginald who tries to claim his actions are for peace but Haytham and Jennifer can clearly see that Reginald only cares about claiming more power for himself, Edward Braddock tries to claim his actions are for peace through the sword, but it’s clear to Haytham that Edward is a Sadistic bully whose idea of peace is hurting people weaker than him. Even Rodrigo Borgia tries to justify his claims that every thing he does is for peace, it’s made to Ezio and the audience that the only thing he cares about is obtaining more power for himself. It also doesn’t help that Tomas only tries to justify his claims right before Aguilar tries to kill him hoping he will spare him, before running away like the coward he is and let his Dragon kill Aguilar. As far as I’m concerned Tomas can stay.

edited 14th Feb '18 11:58:03 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#109036: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:07:51 PM

[up][up][up]Who's Conan Obrien?

[tup]Serengheti.

Why so serious?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#109037: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:12:42 PM

[tup] Serengheti

Why the hell is that second image a baby Freddy Krueger?

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#109038: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:19:55 PM

Conan O’Brian.

I get it now.

Very funny, mate, very funny.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#109039: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:24:23 PM

I just watched Black Panther, it was very good indeed. Everyone had a good time. PM me if you want info on potential CM's.

Also, I'd like to discuss with Lightysnake about the movie once he's ready to do it.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#109040: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:41:24 PM

Hey guys, remember how I was talking about the possibility of A Song of Ice and Fire getting its fan work subpage?

Well, while I acknowledge that this is a distant at best possibility, I would like to say that there are a ton of fan works with possible candidates that need looking into, and I refuse to do it by myself. Anyone want to help me out here?

edited 14th Feb '18 12:41:41 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#109041: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:45:27 PM

Do we really need to devote so much effort to putting up characters from fanfiction? Do we really? There's just as much actual, legitimate published fiction out there that is miles more worthy of discussion than the Sturgeon's law-infested corners of the internet.

Anyways, on those... images? No to the first. We already have an identical picture with Frieza and Vegeta already on the images page, if I recall correctly. And the second? Don't do that. Please.

edited 14th Feb '18 12:47:37 PM by Scraggle

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#109042: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:51:33 PM

I never said look into the bad ones, just the good ones. Like The North Remembers (considered by some to be Better Than Canon) and some others. The Open Way is a nice fic as well, but I already have that one covered.

Except if DolorousEdditor wrote it. His works aren’t the best, though interesting.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#109043: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:52:48 PM

No to both images and Vampire, you're more than welcome to PM someone if you want help making a page for it—personally I have no interest, I really can't stand that medium—but please stop posting here about making pages for this stuff. Even if you're acknowledging a page won't happen for quite some time we can be spending this space on topics with more merit.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#109044: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:53:57 PM

I mean, by all means, go ahead, but keep in mind quality control. We don't want ones from tasteless or poorly-written shlock, and we don't want ones from ones you haven't read all the way either (as was the case with that one you tried to bring up before we shot it down and, yet again, the Koekoeken which you admitted to not even watching before putting up the EP). Keep that in mind.

edited 14th Feb '18 12:56:28 PM by Scraggle

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#109045: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:56:14 PM

Yeah, that one I never finished could probably be considered pointless schlock-shock and having too jacked up a heinous standard for me to properly consider the candidate.

But yeah, I’m not sure who to PM to ask for help with this. If anyone is interested, please PM me.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#109046: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:56:57 PM

I'll give a "Yes" to Serengeti as well.

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#109047: Feb 14th 2018 at 12:57:50 PM

[up][up] Alright. As 43 said, keep future posts like these to PM and PM exclusively unless it actually warrants the attention of the thread in general.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#109048: Feb 14th 2018 at 1:01:06 PM

Now then I actually do have candidate that I want to proposed, I found him while I rewatching the episode "Ho'opio" 3rd season of Hawaii Five-0. Now then Introducing Ray Beckett.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Ray Beckett is the Monster of the Week of this episode who proves how greed can push people to commit such vile deeds.

When first learning of how much money social security check give to parents and their children, Ray establishes a way to obtain those check for himself. He would hire a woman named Helen Cantera to kidnap numerous children from their parents where he would keep in his basement for many years and would regularly abuse these children. Once the children reach adulthood, Ray would simply kill them by burying them alive in his back yard and have Helen kidnap more children for him.

He would also abuse and beat up his wife to make sure she would not tell anyone about his kidnapping ring and force her to participate in his kidnapping ring.

One of these many examples includes Amanda Rollins who was kidnapped from her parents when she was only seven year old and was under Ray's abuse for 10 years before the bastard kill her in cold blood.

When the Hawaii Five 0 task force discovers Ray's kidnapping ring, they demand him to give him the location of their most recent victim Ella. Ray refuses and instead tells the task how Ella is going to die a slow painful death, and mocks the parents grievance for her. This sends Danny William into beating up Ray, which the latter has the gall to say Danny can't to that because he's a cop, Steve simply tells Danny to give him his badge, and let Danny continue beating up Ray.

Ray still doesn't tell them the location of where he buried Ella, but his wife was much more compliant to the Task Force demands and were able to find Ella alive but buried in a shallow grave.

Freudian Excuse

Ray claim to be crippled, but that does not justify him kidnapping and killing children for their social security checks in the least, as there are many ways of making money legally even if you are crippled, nor does it ever paint him in a sympathetic light.

As for redeeming qualities, he has none. He shows no love or care for his wife whom he regally abuses and beats up and is made clear that he only keeps her around so that she can take care of the kidnapped children until they are too old to receive social security checks whom he will then proceeds to kill them off by burying them alive.

His relationship with Helen is professional at best and doesn't show the least bit of concern when he learns that she killed herself to not get caught.

Heinousness

As one of the few baddies in the JAG universe to deliberately target children and have a high body count of such I say he gets a pass here.

There's also Helen who kidnaps the children but she doesn't get much characterization beyond killing herself to she won't have to get arrested, and is only doing what he does because Ray hires her to do so.

His wife is the only other person who knows of Ray's kidnapping ring, but doesn't count because she is actually shown to genuinely care for the children and had no idea her husband was kidnapping them until Steve showed her a picture of one of his victims.

That said Ray is the ring leader of the kidnapping operation and has the characterization of a smug, greedy, and sadistic bastard so yeah as said before he gets a pass here.

Final Verdict

I'd give this bastard a [tup]! what about you guys?

edited 14th Feb '18 1:02:13 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#109049: Feb 14th 2018 at 1:01:40 PM

Actually, I intend to propose a fan work version of Joffrey today later on, which is why I brought it up.

I am currently on my phone, so I can’t right now.

Yes to Ray.

edited 14th Feb '18 1:06:13 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt

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