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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#108851: Feb 12th 2018 at 11:09:46 PM

[tup] to Shinryu. Also [tup] to Killgrave, Big Jim, Grannark.

edited 12th Feb '18 11:10:53 PM by DukeNukem4ever

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#108855: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:18:37 AM

[tup] Big Jim and Shinryu.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#108856: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:43:39 AM

Yes to Shinryu.. now, for my final Valiant keeper from the old continuity? Enter Dr. Eclipse, servant of Master Darque and one hell of an entertaining villain.

Who is Dr. Eclipse? What has he done?

Once known as Fred Bender, Bender is an insatiably curious private investigator who ends up taking interest in Solar himself. Bender corners Phil one day and demands that Phil shows him his power, uncaring if he has to die in the process so long as his curiosity is slaked. Phil shows him all the bizarre powers and worlds he's connected to and even gives Bender a shred of his own power so he can comprehend it... upon which Bender flees back to reality and tells Phil to piss off, gleefully abusing his powers. Initially trying to use his powers for good, Bender becomes bored with this and decides to start murdering people for fun, killing an ambassador who failed to pay him and blowing up an embassy for giggles before Phil corners him, strips him of his powers, and tosses him into Death Valley to rot. Pissed off beyond all belief, Bender turns to none other than the necromantic, sinister Master Darque himself, desperate to regain his power. Darque obliges while making Bender his servant, stripping him of his physical form and recreating him through death energy... and Bender, now a psychopathic, reality-warping phantom and a dark mirror to Solar himself, names himself Doctor Eclipse.

First thing first for Eclipse? Kill Solar. Taking Phil's form to get close to his girlfriend Gayle, Eclipse nearly murders her before Solar arrives, engaging in a vicious fight with him. Utterly exalting in his new power, Eclipse whisks Solar to unreality to show off his powers before teleporting him back to Death Valley, tormenting Solar with his powers and illusions to screw with his mind, tearing him apart and eating his hand ("Finger-lickin' good!), and demeaning him as "making Adam West look like a party animal!" Eventually thinking Solar dead, Eclipse tries to use his new powers to enjoy himself... but finds that Darque's transformation of him has robbed him of all feeling. Irritated, Eclipse takes out his frustrations on more living people, initially dazzling a bar in Venezuela with his magic tricks before brutally murdering a woman who tries to pleasure him and blowing up the bar with everyone inside. Figuring he wants to kill Darque himself for this, Eclipse powers himself out by rampaging across the world and massacring entire towns worth of people to steal excesses of death energy and empower himself. All this ties into a scheme of Darque to unleash a powerful demon to devastate the world... and when Eclipse tries to attack Darque, the demon possesses him. Ultimately, the scheme is foiled, with Eclipse and Darque stopped.

Now, for Eclipse's role in Deathmate alongside Darque? I'll keep this quick because Deathmate doesn't need a whole lot of time devoted to it... Eclipse, during the converging of the Image and Valiant universes, is summoned by Darque once more, tied to his will. Eager for a chance to gain his freedom, Darque and Eclipse join Solar and Supreme in what seems an alliance to help save the two worlds, but... in reality? Eclipse is a willing participant in the attempted destruction of both the Image and Valiant universes, even personally gouging out and seemingly killing Supreme's eyes when he tries to stop the whole deal while mocking him about the impending death of his universe. Once again, Darque and Eclipse are stopped.

Now, not just limiting himself to fighting Solar? Eclipse's dark antics span a few titles. Next appearing in Doctor Mirage, the remains of Eclipse, freed from Darque's control, start trying to reconstitute, first horribly draining the life from two pilots then making their way fatally draining the life from countless people along the way before Eclipse finally partially regains form as a half-complete, starving mass of death energy, his sanity on its edge. Eclipse immediately goes to the biggest source of death energy he can get, Dr. Mirage, and gets his ass blasted, forcing him to flee while devouring more people along the way. In one of Eclipse's... weirdest moments, afterwards, while fleeing? A half-insane Eclipse finds a squirrel and immediately mistakes it for Rocky from Rocky and Bullwinkle... excitedly exclaiming that he loved the squirrel's TV show. While sucking the life from the squirrel. And then leaving to hunt for Bullwinkle. Never explained and never brought up again. Just as Eclipse starts to gain enough energy to return to his old self? Mirage and Carmen trap the psychopath in a silver mine, where he spends the next few months happily singing "Hi-Ho Silver" as he slowly gains enough strength to return.

Finally breaking out in Solar, Eclipse hunts down another man who's been empowered and rendered a being of pure energy, actually through a piece of Eclipse himself, named Ravenus... not devouring him then and there only to squeeze the location of Solar out of him, threatening his friend Veerhusen into calling Solar to Veerhusen's house. When Solar arrives, Eclipse and Ravenus devour Veerhusen's energy and nearly kill him, escaping into unreality when he's stopped whilst cackling. Defeating Solar in combat in unreality and leaving him stranded in unreality, Eclipse returns while leaving Ravenus to guard Solar, trying to hunt down and finish off John purely to hurt Solar more while ranting to Gayle that even slaughtering every "pink-skinned, oxygen breathing mammal on the planet" won't be enough to satisfy his streak of vengeance. Solar, thankfully, manages to trick Eclipse and defeat him again... where he manifests and immediately murders another man before escaping into a nearby city.

Making his final chronological appearance just before the Chaos Effect? Eclipse manifests in his old classroom in Murry County in Ohio, having the time of his absolute life tormenting the schoolchildren and murdering his own schoolteacher for shits and giggles ("Ooh, ooh, Ms. Hockryder! Remember how you used to tell me if I didn't stop being a joker I'd amount to nothing? Well, who's nothing now?"). Deciding he wants to take over Murry County and rename it "Benderville," Eclipse starts massacring and draining random people across the town, cops and innocents alike, while snarking over the Harbingers who try to stop him like Faith ("Hey, a flying fat girl! Cool! I've never eaten one of those before!"), gleefully attempting to drain their energy and everyone else around them before he's blown up. Even then, Eclipse attempts to slowly drown all the Harbingers in their own van using the liquid death energy that comprises his form, and is only stopped from conclusively killing them when the Chaos Effect brews a sudden storm overhead. Overwhelmed from the sudden surge of necromantic energy, Eclipse lets himself be rocketed off with a final "yeee-haaa!" to who-knows-where... never to be seen again.

Any mitigating factors?

That's a hoot. No excuse or sympathetic moments — Eclipse whines that he's angry that he can't feel anything anymore, but that was a decision that was entirely his fault and Solar makes damn well sure to let him now — and he handily blazes past the heinous standard, with tons and tons of mass murder and torture while also having a willing hand in the attempted destruction of two entire universes. Easily one of the worst supervillains in Valiant. He's Laughably Evil, but in a way that accentuates his villainy — and, certainly, in a way that's a lot less lame than Deathsmith, too.

Overall? Nothing to talk about.

Conclusion?

My verdict? Easy keeper, and a really fun one too. It's nice seeing, in comparison to the extremely well-written but glum arcs of Darque and Erica, a villain that just utterly cuts loose while having a ton of fun being a monster. Sort of like the Joker with the powers of Danny Phantom.

Thoughts?

edited 13th Feb '18 12:46:06 AM by Scraggle

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#108857: Feb 13th 2018 at 12:57:46 AM

[tup]Elcipse

Wow he sounds great.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#108858: Feb 13th 2018 at 1:29:44 AM

Yea on Dr. Eclipse..... I still wonder who the Valiant Character is. It's like a guy from JJBA/Fist of the North Star

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#108859: Feb 13th 2018 at 1:43:40 AM

Devilman still has 5; we can just use this image currently on the main image page. Caption something like "Jinmen from Grimoire. Yes, these people are still alive."

Hmm, Grannark seems like a [tup] (and also I think I found myself a new comic to read).

I'll [tup] Big Jim and Shinryu,

And an easy [tup] to Eclipse.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#108860: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:00:49 AM

So they re-opened monster ace attorney. Now with another shot which makes it look better.

Here's the discussion : Ace attorney monster image suggestion

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#108861: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:31:10 AM

[tup] to Big Jim, Shinryu, and Eclipse.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#108862: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:38:28 AM

[tup] Shinryu and Dr Eclipse.

I take it none of the Warriors of Chaos warrant an EP? That is, Emperor Mateus and Kefka and what not? Thanks for that, btw miraculous. I look forward to Shinryu's updated write up.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#108863: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:41:31 AM

Neither Mateus; Kefka or any chaos warriors count. None of them did anything particularly bad and in the ending all of them agree to bow out and go home with no attempts to try anything.

edited 13th Feb '18 2:44:39 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#108864: Feb 13th 2018 at 2:44:20 AM

[up] I imagine, with everything that happened, they just decided "You know what? It's not worth the hassle to stir up more trouble."

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#108865: Feb 13th 2018 at 3:28:31 AM

EDIT: I forgot that I voted for Big Jim and Shinryu previously [nja] Sorry

@miraculous I forget to say this about SRM but iirc wasnt the Skeleton King kepts the toys of Chiro too.....

[down] Right

edited 13th Feb '18 9:20:52 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#108866: Feb 13th 2018 at 3:34:58 AM

[up]Uh no I dont remember.... I mean its not that Skeleton king isn't bad enough or anything as the series plays him really straight for such an odd setting and his plan was to turn the universe into a tomb with the undead reigning supreme to devour the living at his command . Its just how he was created is an instant disqualifier.

Also got a quote from Zemus/Zeromus of Final Fantasy IV

Zeromus: I am the wellspring of darkness, fed by Zemus's unbridled hate. I am He who is called Zeromus... I am He who knows naught but hate!

edited 13th Feb '18 3:39:16 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
LikeVileVillians from Russia Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#108867: Feb 13th 2018 at 3:56:21 AM

If you dont mind me asking, why God from Preacher (Garth Ennis work) not listed? Considering he is revealed to be responsible for every war and atrocity on Earth in final arc, and thus can be considered the most evil character in the setting.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#108868: Feb 13th 2018 at 4:13:52 AM

[tup]Eclipse.

Why so serious?
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#108870: Feb 13th 2018 at 5:22:01 AM

[tup] Big Jim, Eclipse, and Shinryu. I assume with Shinryu we're just updating his current entry to include the planesgorger stuff, right? That's really his only unique crime in NT.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#108871: Feb 13th 2018 at 6:42:42 AM

If you think God from Preacher counts, propose him. Yes to Shinryu and Dr. Eclipse...I have two final Valiant ones coming up soon from the old continuity.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#108872: Feb 13th 2018 at 6:45:59 AM

To answer the above: I did a search, and it seems that God is both pathetic at the end, and keeps a promise he made (while the Saint of Killers is played somewhat sympathetically).

[down] Oh, well then, I stand corrected. But I agree with the first part: If you think he counts, and he's not been effortposted before, feel free to do so.

edited 13th Feb '18 6:51:31 AM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#108873: Feb 13th 2018 at 6:49:09 AM

That promise isn't something I'm inclined to see as mitigating. It's God stroking his own ego as a "loving" being while also removing a threat to himself, so he doesn't see it as a big deal.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#108874: Feb 13th 2018 at 7:02:08 AM

[tup] to Grannark, Big Jim and Dr. Eclipse.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108875: Feb 13th 2018 at 7:12:02 AM

Aye to Eclipse and Shinryu.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.

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