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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108752: Feb 12th 2018 at 12:38:19 PM

Anyways, thinking about it Piella probably does not count. Her motivation is utterly insane and she is played for laughs at times.

Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108753: Feb 12th 2018 at 12:45:06 PM

So if I want to discuss said character beforehand to see if they count should there be a PM? Is a PM alright and does that violate the rules?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#108754: Feb 12th 2018 at 12:46:53 PM

Yes, a PM. Make sure i's ok with the person you're sending it to and don't post it here without thread consensus.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108755: Feb 12th 2018 at 12:57:26 PM

Oh boy, so, let us do this re-examination.

Piella Bakewell, does she count?

Arguments against; work is not conductive towards having a CM, played for laughs.

Arguments for; work is conductive for a CM, crimes are played seriously.

So, let us examine this.

Is Wallace and Gromit conductive enough for a CM?

Wallace and Gromit is an animation which is primarily comedic in nature, however it has dealt with some dark stuff before. Case in point, A Close Shave is one of the darkest shorts around, but A Matter of Loath and Death is darker. A Close Shave deals with Gromit being framed for sheep rustling, A Matter if Loath and Death deals with a serial killer murdering bakers for petty revenge. Wallace and Gromit can get very dark at times, again, A Close Shave.

How seriously is Piella played up?

Piella does have comedic moments at the start, but from her introduction, it is made clear that there is something more to her than what we have seen. Her abuse of Fluffles is never played for laughs at all and is closer to a realistic depiction of child abuse than animal abuse. Piella threatens Fluffles life more than a few times in the short, and by the end, she outright strikes her dog after holding her hostage and threatening to kill her if Wallace doesn’t do as she says. This is definitely pretty bad for Wallace and Gromit.

Her crimes are never played for laughs and shown to be utterly horrifying as they would be in real life. Her motivation is, as we know, revenge on bakers for reasons which are we own fault, something real life serial killers have done.

Is Piella herself played for laughs? At times yes, but it steadily becomes more she is funny and more her getting comeuppance in some way is played for laughs. By the end, she isn’t being played for laughs anymore, save for that final battle with Fluffles. However, that final battle, while a homage to Aliens, is still a form of Piella receiving the comeuppance she rightly deserves for her heartless abuse of Fluffles.

She is terrifying by the end when she tries to kill Wallace herself.

Overall, Piella is played just seriously to count.

She has a body count of twelve innocent bakers. Yes, she uses a rolling pin as a weapon, but she kills with that weapon in the opening. She uses it as a club.

I will do more later, but for now, class needs my attention.

Good thing this class is Rhetoric, eh?

edited 12th Feb '18 1:05:31 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108756: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:10:41 PM

Maybe she counts? I do not want to say whether or not she does for now. Anybody else?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#108757: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:11:07 PM

You know what, I'll go ahead and throw my hat in and say 'Cut" Piella. Upon first rewatch of the film, I was pretty much just unsure, but I think upon further review she can't really be played THAT horribly due to the very nature of the movie being comedic. She fights her dog in an Alien-style ripoff, gets eaten alive because she's too fat to keep a blimp floating, and is just all-around more of a caricature of a vicious serial killer than an actually horrible, vile villain.

Anywho, time for my write-ups" I have no other candidates for now and—

Um.

Hrrrrrmmmm....

Something feels weird...

Oh. That's right... I forgot...How silly of me. I have another candidate. Another Marvel-related baddie for this batch....having found one or two Keeps from Batman fan films, I extended my search, and loe and behold...I found this awesome fellow.

What's the work?

Killgrave: The Purple Man is a 2014 Marvel Comics Fan Film by Watchworks Studios.

Created as a sort-of build-up to the Jessica Jones Netflix series, the film is a meager five minutes in length, however our smooth-talking baddie gets up to quite a bit in those few minutes...

Who is he?

Zebediah Killgrave, better known as the Purple Man, is the main antagonist of the film. A suave, sharply-dressed supervillain with the ability to force people to do whatever he orders them to, Killgrave is currently being hunted by our protagonist Nick Bendis, however unbeknownst to Nick, he's not in actuality the hunter...

What has he done?

Killgrave opens the film by ordering a woman to leap to her death from a high-rise building. As the story progresses, we learn over radio broadcasts and our detective hero's talking that Killgrave has been terrorizing the city for awhile now, and most recently has had a waiter stab a coworker to death before doing the same to himself.

As Nick tries to explain his theories about the legendary "Purple Man" to his partner Dave, Killgrave himself appears, giddily ordering Dave to shoot himself in the head and brushing it off as him just being a "side character."

Revealing to Nick that he has been following him around and turning him and his wife and child into his slaves over the past week, always ordering them to forget about him each time, Killgrave smugly unveils that just the last time he visited, he had Nick brutally murder his own wife and child daughter, and forced him to enjoy it.

Ordering Nick to look back on his murder of his family and be ''happy"' about it, Killgrave then gives Nick one final order: Track down Jessica Jones, Killgrave"s Arch-Enemy, inform her Killgrave is coming for her next, then kill himself in front of her.

The film ends with Killgrave waltzing off as Nick runs to finds Jessica then kill himself, and Killgrave does his trademark signature from the comics by breaking the fourth wall and informing the audience that ominous music is about to play before the screen cuts to black. Both of which proceed to happen.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Besides his charming good looks and great personality? None. Killgrave does what he wants when he wants, and that's just the way he likes it.

Heinousness?

The film takes place in no established canon, so Killgrave only has himself to compete with. And with that in mind, he easily clears. All of his crimes are onscreen, either blatantly or through Gory Discretion Shot, except the waiter incident, and even that is given a hellton of build-up and dialogue to it and fits with Killgrave's pattern. For a one-shot villain who only has five minutes to be evil, Killgrave clears with flying colors.

Final Verdict?

I'd say Keep this handsome devil!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#108758: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:11:29 PM

Woah, I spaced out there a second....what just happened?

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108760: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:15:37 PM

...that was surreal indeed.

Aye to Killgrave.

This Piella debate is kind of making me angry a bit. Hopefully, I can avoid another breakdown. Still thinks she barely counts in the end.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108763: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:17:47 PM

Before we do cut Piella, let us at least get everyone currently here to vote on this.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108764: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:20:29 PM

Eh, though she might count the nature of the overall film being comedic makes it hard to defend her. I do not mind if she is cut. Also yes to the purple man.

edited 12th Feb '18 1:20:54 PM by Knack2baby

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108765: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:21:20 PM

I fail to see how a short being comedic makes it hard for her to count.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108766: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:22:31 PM

I am not saying yes or no on this matter, just that I can see others not voting her up based on prior arguments.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#108767: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:22:48 PM

It's not that it's just comedic. It's that it literally is a comedy.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#108768: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:23:42 PM

Assuming the new Piella discussion started here, we currently have 6 people who think she should be cut and 2 people who think she should be kept. I assume Knack2baby is currently an abstain?

edited 12th Feb '18 1:24:08 PM by dragonfire5000

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108769: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:24:48 PM

So comedies can’t have a CM?

That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, as there are several comedies I know of which have a monster. This short isn’t purely a comedy.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108770: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:25:58 PM

[up] That sums it up. I cannot decide because of how it is explicitly a comedy. Dag is currently listed because he is unnaturally dark for any sort of light hearted film. Having watched the film Piella is not as easy a decision. I guess an abstain.

edited 12th Feb '18 1:26:31 PM by Knack2baby

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#108771: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:27:27 PM

Yeah, Piella is very dark for the short as a whole and the franchise.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#108772: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:27:44 PM

[tup] Killgrave.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Knack2baby Since: Feb, 2018
#108773: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:31:46 PM

Again, I am unsure. I have not watched the film in awhile but I remember that she is utterly insane. As in so insane that I did not think of her as anything more than crazy. Her motivation is ludicrous and unless she was crazy beforehand I cannot imagine anyone being like this. All her crimes are treated seriously but I never thought of her as anything more than a lunatic. Like how the book by Bentley little life with father had the father who was completely insane and depraved? The problem Piella has is whether or not her insanity is treated with enough seriousness.

edited 12th Feb '18 1:34:10 PM by Knack2baby

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#108775: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:33:22 PM

When she went up (and I didn’t give my input either way because I hadn’t seen it), I planned to see it myself so I could experience her. I’ll try to see it soon to give my thoughts. That way I can have a part in whether or not Piella stays.

EDIT: I checked and I can watch it for free on Prime (as well as the other three shorts)! Sweet!

edited 12th Feb '18 1:37:07 PM by futuremoviewriter


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