During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
BTW, Scraggle and Lighty, since there's so much crossover among the Valiant universe, I think at all the YMMV pages for CM I'm just gonna put "See here."
And don't forget about this week's batch
.
edited 12th Feb '18 2:31:39 AM by ACW
@ACW @Scraggle Ummmmm yeah....Sorry to say this but I add some potholes for Dakki's writeup without permission so yeah....Here's the thing that I add
So Dakki lacks any redeeming qualities of her original manga counterpart. Taking over the kingdom of Yin, Dakki enthralls King Chuo to her, having the people starved and worked to death while she happily kills those she deems "traitors", including slaughtering civilians en masse. Dakki has one minister imprisoned for opposing her and later murders his eldest son, before cooking him into steak and feeding him to his father. In another incident, Dakki manipulates the disgrace and suicide of the king's lawful wife before attempting to purge his family. Finally, Dakki mutates King Chuo into a monster, having him massacre the people of Yin for a laugh and attempts to torture his most loyal retainer to death in their fight, caring for nothing but her sadistic whims.
- I potholed the "Feeding him to his father" part to become I Ate WHAT?! part considered of course she cooked his own son into a hamburger
- Pothole the part "manipulates the disgrace and suicide of the king's lawful wife" into Driven to Suicide
and lastly
- Pothole the "caring for nothing but her sadistic whims" into For the Evulz part
I think you guys (esp. Lighty) will be mad at me after potholing Dakki's entry
but ah well, I'm getting used with backlash after all. Maybe this is due to my obsession towards her and passionate everytime I see her or something else so yeah.....I need help
Also, abstain on Mothergod
edited 12th Feb '18 3:13:00 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Having thought it over which is why I didn't vote immediately.
Ill give a
to erica as it does sound like she goes to far ala Ardyn or Arcadius to the point the excuse doesnt hold up.
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If it helps there are a bunch other bad guys we can still use as a comparison should the worst happen and we cut him of the what happened to you sucks but this is way to faaaar. variety. Luca Blight, Zoom, koba and lotso for starters.
So is lighty going to reserve Ardyn's dlc as since hes the one who put him up, I feel that responsibility should go to him.
edited 12th Feb '18 6:43:59 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."BTW, since this week's batch
is so big, I'll submit it tomorrow instead of today.
Yes to Mothergod. She actually reminds me of animated!Atrocitus in that while she does have a pretty terrible Freudian Excuse, she squanders any sympathy it might provide by inflicting the exact same stuff on others herself.
'Yes' to Mothergod. Her excuse doesn't sound like it comes close to justifying anything, and it seems like she goes WAY beyond what is remotely necessary in regards to whatever issues her excuse may have given her.
On the subject of both most complex CMs and villains who go way beyond what their excuses justify, my go-to example will always be one of my favorite villains in anything, Kilgrave. Here's a guy who grew up being experimented on by parents who, though loving to him, were willing to try anything to cure him. His mind not fully comprehending that his parents were trying to help him, he turned his parents into his slaves when he gained his mindcontrolling powers, and he's been indulging in his twisted wayd ever since.
And yet...he KNOWS now they were just trying to help him. He could reconcile with them, and indeed nearly does when he thinks they will stay with him unconditionally, but when he realizes that they are still terrified of him, he just....lets go and completely flies into true self-awareness of how evil he is, and never once repents. He's an utterly fascinating character, and those who say that Ego is the most complex CM in the MCU are really missing out, because Kilgrave makes Ego look like a two-dimensional 90s cop movie villain in comparison.
Anywho, time for another Marvel Comics effortpost. This one is completely generic, but a solid Keep nonetheless.
What's the work?
Spider-Man Unlimited was a late 90s animated series that served as a sort-of loose sequel to the classic Spider-Man: The Animated Series show.
In this series, Spider-Man ends up transported to an alternate version of the Earth while chasing down Venom and Carnage, and discovers that it is under the rule of a dictator called the High Evolutionary, who has created an entire race called the "Bestials", animal/human hybrids to serve as humanity's masters.
Spider-Man works to fight the High Evolutionary while building a resistance and stumbling upon various alternate versions of his classic foes, and all that good stuff.
Now, neither the High Evolutionary nor Carnage/Venom count...they all have at least some form of redeeming feature to them (Yes, even Carnage if I remember correctly).
In fact, we're not discussing the show itself, but rather a five issue comicbook miniseries released as a tie-in to the series. In it, Spidey continues his hero-ing, and ultimately, in the final issue, stumbles across his most vile foe yet...
Who is he?
In what I'm sure is a first, this is an adaptation of the classic Spidey foe the Chameleon. A normal dude in the 616 canon who is a Master of Disguise, Chameleon here is a Bestial, specifically a...well, lizard looking one.
What has he done?
Chameleon is first seen in proper as he robs a bank while disguised as a human. He opens fire on a crowd of innocents in his attempts to take down the recently arrived Spider-Man, and nearly murders his own henchmen in the process.
Later, we discover that Chameleon is actually a Serial Killer who has been brutally murdering innocent people so as to steal their identification chips and use them to enable his ability to change his appearance. We see...rather shockingly for a comic based on a Y7 cartoon, a man's corpse, blood pooling from his butchered face that we get an obscure view of. You know, for kids!
When Spider-Man and his new buddy Wolverine (Long story) track down Chameleon, he is in the process of attacking and trying to murder his latest victim. The duo save the woman, at which point Chameleon shows off his ability to transform into Spider-Man (Somehow...?), and boasts his plans to frame Spidey as the killer behind his crimes.
Luckily, Wolverine and Spidey take down the mad menace, but even in their victory, Spidey can't help but feel horror as he loots Chameleon and finds at least a dozen identification chips on him, each representing a victim of his bloody rampage.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nah, Bestials have full agency and all that, he's just a prick who likes hurting others and wants the ability to transform simply so he can commit any crime he wants and always slip away with ease.
Heinousness?
Though not as mass-affecting as the High Evolutionary or the Symbiotes, this is purely a matter of resources. Chameleon is a street-level thug that Spidey takes down regularly, but one who just so happens to also be a flipping serial killer of a dozen people, attempted more. Coupled with his other acts of prickishness (Opening fire on innocents, nearly murdering his henchmen, planning to frame Spidey) and I'd say he makes it.
Final Verdict?
A pretty generic Keep, though I will say that he's at least a BIT shocking if only because having an explicit serial killer in a comic tie-in to a cartoon made for children is....interesting....
edited 12th Feb '18 9:56:35 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yes to mothergod and chameleon. So, as for complex villains? imo all of blizzard's listed characters are pretty complex knowing them. I have a question, if a character intentionally causes high amounts of environmental destruction just for money and knows that said harvesting of resources could potentially damage the planet beyond repair, could they count? I know the standard for warcraft is high but researching the next expansion there is a character who may count who is not affiliated with either the legion or old gods.
Depends. In a work with a jacked up heinous standard, like Game of Thrones, Littlefinger was ruled not to count because, callous as he was, he didn't know how bad the War of the Five Kings would get and given his high level of resources, really doesn't measure up to the more explicitly sadistic villains. EP if you're confident/want closure though.
Oh, as of now the character I am discussing does not count but I think Battle for Azeroth expands the character in a form that makes him heinous enough for who he is based on resources. The heinous standard for warcraft is high but not jacked up like game of thrones where most likely nobody else will count considering the warcraft series is still light hearted at times. E Ping the character now will probably violate the rule about spoilers anyways.
edited 12th Feb '18 10:22:38 AM by Knack2baby

I think I'll talk a put it well doing the discussion t ommorrow.
edited 12th Feb '18 2:19:52 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."