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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#107701: Feb 2nd 2018 at 1:47:49 AM

[up] Truth be told it was a character I was going to write in a story. I know I shouldn't propose my own characters, but this character I'm making is someone I plan to make into a complete monster. I just ask like it was a proposition to see if anyone would count it. This might be a bit much, but mind telling if you think a character like that would be considerable? It's supposed to be the worse type of bully you can imagine. Also, it would be nice if anyone of you could check once I make it see if it would work.

edited 2nd Feb '18 1:48:09 AM by TheImmortalAngelNewton

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#107702: Feb 2nd 2018 at 1:50:25 AM

[up] Oh! So it was from the story of yours. Sure, I would love to check but keep in mind I'm a bit of a slow reader and TV tropes sometimes have a pretty strict requirement about fanfiction iirc. Shoot me a DM so that I could know your story or if your story is done then I will try at my best to read it.

edited 2nd Feb '18 1:51:02 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107703: Feb 2nd 2018 at 2:13:17 AM

[tup] Haller. Man, Kellum's stuff seems a lot better than the usual Creepypasta stuff.

[tup] Pale Queen. Seems kind of an Anti-Climax Boss.

[tup] Daemon. His bit about Digimon deserving to rule seems plausible...if not for the fact he kills many himself.

Abstaining on the other one.

edited 2nd Feb '18 2:15:09 AM by ACW

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#107704: Feb 2nd 2018 at 2:28:45 AM

So since we're on the subject of digimon villains. Anyone got any pictures as the page could do with an image.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#107705: Feb 2nd 2018 at 3:04:24 AM

I hope you get through your problems Scraggle. Mental health in particular is a bitch. But we all deserve happiness.

Except Griffith.

[tup] Daemon and Myotismon.

If anyone's concerned Shadows of the Damned is too goofy, I can assure you that the game is deathly serious about how much hell and Fleming sucks, even if some things are a little quirky.

[up] Malomyotismon murdering his underlings for no reason could work.

edited 2nd Feb '18 3:05:07 AM by PolarPhantom

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#107706: Feb 2nd 2018 at 3:25:34 AM

[up]Thats a good idea actually.

So how about a collage of this :

him holding her and Arkuenium before Malomyotismon kills her with this her distressed and Him crushing her into data

All 4 together could work

edited 2nd Feb '18 3:33:48 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#107707: Feb 2nd 2018 at 3:59:54 AM

[tup] Pale Queen, Daemon, and Myotismon.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107708: Feb 2nd 2018 at 8:59:41 AM

So I'm going through the General Ripper potholes to fix misuse, and I noticed this mess of an entry:

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#107709: Feb 2nd 2018 at 9:06:30 AM

[up] That could probably use a straight up rewrite. Not sure why so much is devoted to what he comes across as before showing his true colours. Furthermore, saying he's Affably Evil when it's just a facade is just incorrect.

edited 2nd Feb '18 9:07:08 AM by 43110

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#107710: Feb 2nd 2018 at 9:11:35 AM

Speaking of rewrites.....If you guys know about this franchise and wanted to do it. I think I'm fine if someone taking a jab on Zouken's rewrite and is it or me or his entry is kind of..........lacking. If you guys felt it doesn't then that's fine. Here's his current writeup:

The Big Bad of the "Heaven's Feel" route is Zouken Matou, an ancient mage who stays alive primarily by body-jacking people and instigates the entire plot in an effort to achieve immortality. Prior to the Fourth Holy Grail War, he adopted Tokiomi Tohsaka's younger daughter Sakura, ostensibly to carry on the magical legacy of the Matou family, then subjected her to ten years of constant violation by magic worms in order to control her and mold her into a vessel for the Holy Grail. To keep Sakura's budding dark side in check, Zouken had his "grandson" Shinji rape her regularly and fostered Shinji's descent into evil.

If you still felt that his entry already covered up his crimes. Then again, that's fine but yeah.........

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#107711: Feb 2nd 2018 at 9:44:24 AM

I've got one:

  • Zouken Matou, head of the Matou mage family, is an ancient, revolting man who has long since forgotten everything save his pursuit of the Holy Grail and the power it can bestow upon him. Remaining alive by killing and stealing the bodies of his descendants, Zouken later adopted the young girl Sakura from the Tohsaka family, before using her as a host for magic worms, having them violate Sakura for over a decade. Zouken manipulates his wayward descendant Kariya into fighting the Grail War for him, fully intending on using Kariya as a sacrificial lamb, infesting him with the worms to shorten his life. After Sakura's power became too dangerous to control, Zouken had her adoptive brother Shinji rape her regularly to keep it under control. In the Heavens Feel route, Zouken engineers a great amount of death and catastrophe, provoking Sakura into unlocking her hidden dark side, intending to seize her body as well and finally claim the Grail at long last.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#107712: Feb 2nd 2018 at 9:51:39 AM

[up] Looks nice. I like the new writeup better

edited 2nd Feb '18 9:52:08 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107713: Feb 2nd 2018 at 9:54:46 AM

Does anything in Zouken's new writeup need to be spoiled?

43110: You think the CURRENT one is bad (which it is)? Here's the original:

  • Complete Monster: Jean Cloche is a pretty good example, having effectively doomed the mainland of Japan during the second timeskip. Also his manipulating of events in a way that all but ensures a fourth outbreak that dooms southern Japan.

edited 2nd Feb '18 9:55:25 AM by ACW

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#107714: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:02:46 AM

[tup] Myotismon.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#107715: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:17:00 AM

Speaking of which....

Now, for a strange instance of Adaptational Villainy...

What's The Work?

Houshin Engi, or 'Soul Hunter' as it's released in the US, was a 1996 Shonen manga by Ryu Fujisaki. Now, the plot? Taikubo, a young Sennin, or Sage, a class of supernatural beings, is given an order by his Sennin master: a list of creatures to defeat in the Hoshin project: to track down the supernatural beings causing mischief in the world. Chief among them? So Dakki, a wicked fox spirit who has bewitched King Chuo of the Yin dynasty...Taikubo sets out, but of course it's never that simple.

Now, the anime was made when the manga was running, so it went and did its own thing eventually...in the manga, our villain doesn't count due to an infuriating last second injection of redeeming qualities and one of the worst instances of Karma Houdini I've ever seen, but I digress...in the manga, Dakki turns out to be The Dragon to an ancient being known as Jyoka. In the anime, Dakki remains the big bad...

So, who is So Dakki and what has she done?

Dakki is a powerful fox spirit taking the form of a beautiful young woman. Having approached Emperor Chuo, Dakki ensnared his mind using one of her magic items, or paopei. Having Chuo's wife imprisoned, Dakki sets about ruining the entire realm to bring down the kingdom of Yin: the people are starved, worked to the bone, with Dakki regularly having people massacred on suspicion of 'treason' by the truckload, When first introduced, Dakki overhears an officer begging for King Chuo to grant them relief, only to laugh off his concerns and name him a traitor. When he attacks her, Dakki casually vaporizes him, hiding everything under an air of faux-sweetness and a ditzy, valley girl exterior.

When she learns of Taikubo, Dakki sends the powerful Doshi, another sort of supernatural being, named Shinkoyo to deal with Taikubo, though Shinkoyo decides to let things proceed as it amuses him. Things...get worse for the Yin as Dakki allows the Yokai to roam free and kill and destroy as they will. Seeking to eliminate all threats to her, Dakki invites the beautiful wife, Lady Kashi, of one of the Emperor Chuo's close friends and renowned warrior Kou Hiko over, knowing it's forbidden for the Emperor to even look at the face of his chief retainer's wife...Dakki bewitches him into attempting to assault Kashi and order her to become his concubine as Dakki looks on in amusement. Kashi, unable to refuse the Emperor, but unwilling to betray her husband, throws herself to her death. Kou Hiko's sister, one of Chuo's concubines, realizes that Dakki intends to use her as a hostage to ensure Kou Hiko's behavior and throws herself after Kashi to allow Kou Hiko to rebel against Dakki for good. Kou Hiko, aided by the heroic General Bunchu, rescues Chuo's children, knowing they're in mortal danger as potential threats to Dakki.

One of Chuo's noble retainers, Ki Sho, arrives in to speak sense to the Emperor, but is imprisoned. His eldest son Ki Hakuyoku arrives to attempt to free his father, but Dakki frames him for treason. Dakki then has an idea...and cue a starving Ki Sho, in prison...being given a meal courtesy of Empress Dakki, which he realizes instantly is made from the flesh of his own beloved son.

Dakki then eliminates her main rival, Chuo's wife Kyohi. Inviting her out of imprisonment and offering her a 'gift': an enchanted dagger that Kyohi can't put down. Kyohi, unable to stop herself, 'attacks' Dakki from 'jealousy,' prompting her to be accused of treason and attempted murder. To clear her name and also remove herself as Dakki's hostage, Kyohi kills herself on the spot. Taikubo and heroes begin to foster rebellion against Dakki, who reacts with complete brutality, attempting to hunt them down while killing everything in her path. Ki Sho is saved from prison and begins helping to lead the rebellion as Dakki grows more and more sadistic, deciding to simply speed up her plans: She mutates Chuo into a hideous monster and sics him on his own people, slaughtering everyone in the capital city as Tiakubo and friends arrive to face her. Dakki,with her sworn sisters, Kijin and Kibi, end up fighting them while Dakki faces Bunchu, sadistically trying to torture him to death by crushing him with hundreds of times of gravity. Did I mention Bunchu is a god-tier badass? Cause he withstands it.

Dakki then forces the monstrous Chuo to try to kill his own son. Chuo proceeds to be reached by Bunchu and attacks Dakki himself, overcoming her mind control at last. Dakki simply kills him, allowing him to die human in Bunchu's arms. Dakki later attempts to kill Bunchu and his other allies, only to be defeated and sealed off...

Until the finale when Taikubo and team learn of the manipulations of the Sennin. Now, at the very end? Dakki breaks free, revealing that while she was initially intended to be a pawn of the Sennin? She's motivated by her hatred, malice and hunger for power. In the ensuing fight, Dakki attempts to flee when defeated, only to be restrained by Shinkohyo, as "running away during the exciting climax offends my sense of aesthetics." Tiakubo charges Dakki and proceeds to slice her in half, telling her to "Rest in darkness!"

A new government is formed after, with life continuing, free of the threat of otherworldly forces.

Heinousness?

Dakki has the blood of countless thousands of on her hands, maybe millions. There's no real issue and nobody else comes close. It's revealed that there's a conspiracy of the Sennin to manipulate humanity, but Dakki goes way, way overboard and the master of the sennin was surprised she was able to achieve free will on her own. Easy pass here.

Mitigating Qualities?

As sad before...everything Dakki does was by her own accord, while intended to be a puppet? Dakki savored everything she does. In the manga, this is at the bequest of the true Big Bad, the alien being Jyoka, to destroy the Yin. Here? It's to unleash more demons onto humanity, for power and for the fun of it. She's crazy sadistic and her sweet mask constantly slips to show how viciously depraved she is. By the anime's finale, Dakki is a shrieking, crazed lunatic without even attempting her old politeness. she's completely contemptuous of humans, and as for her sisters? In the manga, Dakki genuinely cares about them. In the anime here? Kijin and Kibi die and Dakki doesn't even bat an eye, just smiling and continuing to torture Bunchu without a beat.

Oh, and in the manga, Dakki becomes the guardian spirit of the earth, ascends to godhood and suffers absolutely no repercussions for anything. In case you were wondering.

Conclusion?

Anime!Dakki? Yeah, gonna say an easy, easy, EASY keeper

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#107716: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:27:44 AM

[tup] Haller, Pale Queen, Daemon, Myotismon, Dakki

@ ACW: Great... they're both shitty. Wanna put a rewrite on my "to do"?

edited 2nd Feb '18 11:20:31 AM by 43110

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#107717: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:32:51 AM

[tup]Dakki

By the way for anyone curious in the manga she once killed somones son and turned him into hamburgers and then tricked his father into eating them. Poor guy after he found out, didnt eat any more food and wasted away.

So thank God there's a version of her that qualifies.

[down]I'll add the pictures to the drafts and let acw make a collage

edited 2nd Feb '18 10:49:53 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107718: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:33:06 AM

[tup] 1999!Anime!Dakki (apparently there's a new anime for the series). Will you be tackling Ryogaku's rewrite?

[up][up] Done.

edited 2nd Feb '18 10:33:18 AM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#107719: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:40:41 AM

Yeah, that was Ki sho in the manga....the anime kinda had it.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#107720: Feb 2nd 2018 at 10:53:16 AM

[tup] Daeman [tup] Pale Queen and [tup] Dakki.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#107721: Feb 2nd 2018 at 11:16:00 AM

[tup] to Father Haller and The Pale Queen.

edited 2nd Feb '18 11:18:17 AM by MGD107

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#107722: Feb 2nd 2018 at 11:51:40 AM

[tup] Myotismon (going voluntarily Drunk on the Dark Side has never been a disqualifier) and Dakki.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#107723: Feb 2nd 2018 at 11:53:45 AM

So now that I've finally gotten around to it, here's the new The Texas Chainsaw Massacre examples.

As I mentioned when I brought Vilmer Sawyer up, I liked Texas Chainsaw 3D despite its bad rep. No one counts in that film but it later came with a prequel movie called Leatherface which focuses on the origins of the titular chainsaw wielding killer as a teenager. While I admit 3D has its problems and could have been executed better, when ever I see someone complain about the plot and character twists I can only sarcastically think to myself "Oh no, new ideas and an characterization on Leatherface that was close to how Tobe Hooper described him! Best not anger the Ancient Ones!" Meanwhile Leatherface seems to fix some of these problems, portraying the Sawyers as bad people while keeping Leatherface sympathetic enough that you are almost rooting for him and gives a Gray-and-Grey Morality feeling that I think they were trying to go for in 3D. It still glosses over anachronism errors though (except for deleted scenes which make the errors more jarring).

Anyways the plot is basically a horror road trip/escape movie that focuses on teenagers who escape a juvenile detention mental institution with two of the escapes taking two other patients and a young nurse named Lizzy hostage. This little pose includes two deranged lovers, Ike and Clarice, an affable, good hearted and witty teenager named Jackson, and a mostly silent lumbering brute named Bud. Take a wild guess which one ends up being Leatherface. Meanwhile the Sawyers are out as well looking to find their son and rope him back into the family (spoiler alert, they do).

Today I bring you two of the escapees.

Who are they ? What do they do ?

Ike and Clarice are two teenage inmates at the aforementioned institution. They are both lovers brought together by being hyper violent, sex crazed, psychopaths. They would be right up the Sawyer's alley, but have a different sort of depraved taste than the Sawyers (I won't say what it is just yet but for now it starts with an N). Ike is introduced around the time Izzy is introduced, where he's seen causing trouble and tries to forcefully kiss her before Jackson and Bud, who Lizzy befriended in that same scene get into a fight with Ike, getting Ike and Bud in trouble. Clarice is introduced shortly after as another trouble maker, where Lizzy catches her trying to force another girl into eating a live mouse. Later, when the Sawyer matriarch Verna tries to get her son out, she ends up starting a mass breakout and in turn a riot throughout the institution. During which Clarice strangles a girl to death with her own hair for apparently putting the moves on Ike. The two later meet up and are having so much fun with all the violence and chaos around them that they have sex right in the middle of it all before making their escape.

As they do so, Ike decides to pick up Bud because he "owes him one" and abducts both Jackson and Lizzy as well. When they get far enough, Ike states his plans to escape into Mexico and tells his hostages that they are gonna play ball with his plan or else he'll force one to watch the other two get murdered. They quickly find their way to a diner, where Ike and Clarice take the place hostage, robbing its patrons, shooting and stabbing up the place, killing several hostages. As they make their escape there, they settle for staying the time being at an RV the found in the woods. As it turns out there's a dead rotting body in the RV that belongs to its previous owner. That night Ike and Clarice put Bud on guard duty, while the two have sex...with the dead body. And no, they don't cut away from it either.

Later on, Lizzy tries to make an escape but is cornered by Ike, who throughout the movie has shown an attraction to her and subtly putting the moves on her; so of course he tries to rape her. Luckily Jackson comes to her rescue and fights with Ike briefly before Lizzy and Bud interrupt them. Ike tries to cover up what he's done to Clarice and insults Bud as he walks off to take a piss. Bud doesn't take kindly to this, stalking Ike down, knocking him out and dragging him to a rock where he forces Ike to bite down before stomping his head in. The next day Clarice goes looking for Ike, when the police, including our decoy hero antagonist Hal Hartman catch up to her and has her shot.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?

Between the two, I'd say Clarice has the lesser chance of counting. For the most part their relationship seems like Ramsay and Myranda, where it revolves around their sadism and sex. The reason I say Clarice has a lesser chance of counting is that there's hints that she seems to care about Ike to some degree with her being the jealous type (which manifests rather violently) and her spending minutes searching for Ike after his death - she also may have a Pet the Dog moment where she warns the others of the cops coming when she had no discernible reason to do so. Also Clarice comes off as having more sanity issue than Ike.

The reason why I mention that is that while Ike himself is clearly deranged, in between his moments of sex, violence and depravity, he is shown to have moments of clarity that shows he's got a sense of pragmatic thinking and long term planning, hinting that he may be a slightly higher functioning psychopath than Clarice and acts as the brains of their plans. While Clarice hints actual care for Ike, Ike by contrast isn't above putting the moves on other girls (Lizzy mainly) behind her back as much as he denies his attraction to Lizzy and makes up a cover story to Clarice after his rape attempt as if he was nearly caught cheating. He also has a fast Bait the Dog moment where he takes Bud to escape the institution because Bud helped break him out and he owes him one, only for it to turn out that Bud is another one of his hostages and that he treats him like a grunt. By Ike's own words he doesn't know why God wasted his time making Bud.

The thing that slows me down about Ike is that he may have a redeeming quality that's pretty vague. Throughout the movie he talks about his mother and how he plans on stopping by as part of her escape plans and settling there. That is up until it turns out Ike doesn't know where his family is and states that they "keep fucking moving" as if to avoid him, but he wants to find them. Whether he cares about them and is hurt or resentful isn't completely clear but he implies that he's got abandonment issues towards his family, and while he seems to be trying to get sympathy from the other characters he doesn't exactly hold up to them. That same scene he talks to Jackson and asks if he wants to find his real family and seems confused that Jackson is content with what he has. This is one of those moments of clarity I talked about so Ike goes back to being his usual self moments later.

Heinous Standard

Now The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a dark franchise with a high heinous standard being one of the frontrunners of the Hillbilly Horror and Cannibal Clan genres. And it's not like the Sawyer's do not influence the heinous standard in this movie; (in fact Ike and Clarice have the second highest bodycount next to the Sawyers in this movie). And each sequel to the original is set in a separate continuity. Now this prequel is in continuity with Texas Chainsaw 3D which I think was aiming for a Gray-and-Grey Morality story but was just sloppily executed (once again this movie does the morality more justice) with a cast of mostly unlikeable characters and one of the more sympathetic ones snapping and siding with the killer that murdered her friends to take revenge on the folks who killed the family she just found out about; you've got who should've been an Anti-Villain turn out to be a hypocritical Knight Templar whose willing to kill anyone and everyone whose name is Sawyer regardless of their ignorance or innocence (like our protagonist...at first).

My point being this movie does it better; it makes the Sawyer's bad people, says you shouldn't be rooting for them and killing of the innocent is wrong - the Hero Antagonist here is a more believable Anti-Villain - while at the same time keeping Leatherface a sympathetic character who turns out to be a victim of the Sawyer's in his own way, and thus able to root for to some application. Admittedly Verna Carson Sawyer is probably of worst of the Sawyer's in this particular continuity and is relegated to Greater-Scope Villain of here. I'm not gonna lie I am half tempted to bring her up, but even if her attitude towards family is someone fanatical, she treats her other family like henchmen, is an entitled Hate Sink, I get a sense care from her towards her son who would become Leatherface, even if it comes off as possessive, manipulative with her gaslighting and corrupting of her son. If your interested in me bringing her up or familiar with the character and want to do a collab, feel free to PM me.

But back to Ike and Clarice - they have a fairly high bodycount of their own in this movie and are shown to be just as depraved as the Sawyer's even if they are just runner ups - although the Sawyer's are a bigger family and have been operating longer with Ike and Clarice being essentially Big Bad Wannabe characters to Verna's Big Bad. And even with the high percentage of assholes or corrupt characters in this continuity, most of them don't come close to holding a candle to the Sawyer's (most of them being just assholes with few sympathetic characters). Ike and Clarice however are runner ups for being actually malicious in killing innocent people in brutal ways, and swap out the Sawyer's cannibalism with sexual debauchery, from rape to goddamn Necrophilia.

I'm just saying if you plan on watching this movie, I recommend you butter your popcorn with Brain Bleach. It's really something when cannibalism isn't the absolute most fucked up thing in a The Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#107724: Feb 2nd 2018 at 1:16:24 PM

[tup] to Daki, Ike, and Charlie.

Alrighty guys I have found not 1 but 2 potential candidates from a TV show that I've just finished watching on Netflix. The show Peaky Blinders

Whats The Work?

Peaky Blinders is a British television action crime drama based upon the exploits of the Peaky Blinders gang, and is set in Birmingham, England in the aftermath of World War I. It revolves around its leader Tomas Shelby and the Inspector Chester Campbell tasked with suppressing the gang. However Chester is not what he seems and is the first out of the two that I will be discussing. So without a further a due...

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Inspector Chester Campbell is The cruelest subversion of the Sympathetic Inspector Antagonist. Tasked to locate and recover the missing consignment of guns from the Birmingham Small Arms Company factory, he soon learns that the Peaky Blinders are in possession of them.

To attract their attention Campbell has his men terrorize the lower class district, to which Arthur Shelby soon arrives. Assuming him to be their leader, Campbell he captures him and beats him up personally only to learn that its his younger brother Thomas is the leader of the gain thanks to a mole he planted in the gang.

When he first meets Thomas and his family, he demands to know where the stolen contrabands are by threatening Tommy that he'll bash him and his brothers' heads in, kill Ada and her unborn baby, and throw Finn into prison with child molesters. When one of Campbell's men gets disturbed by what he had said, Campbell has him severely tortured and killed.

He eventually finds the stolen weapons, but when he also finds out that his mole, Grace has fallen in love with Tommy, Campbell gets engaged, so much so that he takes his rage out by raping a Chinese Prostitute so brutally that he nearly kills her.

He then decides to spite Grace by informing Tommy's gang rival Billy Kimber about Tommy's plan to betray him. This ignites a gang war between Billy and Tommy to which Campbell decides to make even more violent by ordering his men to leave the area so the two gangs can hopefully kill each other, uncaring of the innocents getting killed along the way. Campbell also tries to kill Grace himself only for Grace to shoot him in the leg.

In Season 2 Campbell becomes a Major and a Chief of Staff in the Intelligence Service, assigned to plan the assassination of Henry Russel. Rather than carry out the assassination himself he forces Tommy to do it by threatening his loved ones. When Tommy reveals to Campbell that Donal is a spy and will only carry out the assassination if Donal is killed. Campbell has Donal killed by burning him alive to death under a pile of flaming hot Charcoal.

When Tommy starts doing things not on Campbell's plan, the latter responds by throwing his brother Arthur and cousin Micheal to his custody where he has his men beat them up all day. Campbell tells Tommy that he will only release them on the condition that Polly has sex with him. Polly reluctantly accepts but decides to back out on the last minute, to which Campbell responds by brutally raping her.

When Tommy's eventually carries out Campbell assassination plan and kills Henry Russel, it is soon revealed that he hired "The Red Right Hand" of the Ulster Volunteer Force, to murder Thomas after he carries out his assassination. He also tries to kill Polly himself, only for Polly turn the tables on Campbell ending the bastard's life by shooting him at the heart.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

The only thing about his past is that he did not fight in World War I. While this tends to have others view Campbell as a coward, it is never used to put Campbell in a sympathetic light.

As for redeeming qualities he claims to have feelings for Grace and Polly but when the reject his advances it is soon reveal that he never genuinely cared for any of them, showing no remorse for raping Polly and attempting to kill both of them, only viewing them as lust objects.

He seemed surprised when he notices the Chinese Prostitute he was brutally raping bleeding through the mouth, but this isn't out of concern for the poor girl, but rather realizes that everything he did and everything he has done isn't for justice but its because he is simply a sadistic bully who takes joy out hurting the weak. However, he doesn't show disgust toward this, instead being proud of being a sadistic monster and hates the Peaky Blinders because they had the gall to stand up to him.

So yeah nada on both counts

Heinousness?

Peaky Blinders is a pretty dark series and The Protagonist, Tommy Shelby, is far from a saint, but is shown to love his family very much and everything Tommy has done is strictly for business, expanding his empire, and enacting vengeance on those who have hurt his family.

Campbell on the other hand commits some of the most vile crimes, such as rape, torture, murder, bring people alive, over the pettiest reasons and shows no regards to deliberately causing innocent casualties, the people he is meant to protect, should they ever get in his way.

There is also Billy Kimber the Starter Villain of the show, but he doesn't do anything to make him stand out and Campbell already outclasses him in heinousness.

Luca Changretta the Big Bad Season 4 does commit some heinous stuff like killing Tommy's younger brother John but he doesn't count because Luca has family that he genuinely care for, and the only reason why he even goes after the Peaky Blinders is because they killed his father and brother. Even so Luca doesn't deliberately get innocent and his own men killed nor does he ever rape anyone, unlike Campbell.

Really the only person that matches Campbell in terms of heinousness in my next candidate.

Final Verdict?

I believe he is worthy of a [tup]! What about you guys?

edited 2nd Feb '18 1:21:10 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#107725: Feb 2nd 2018 at 1:21:55 PM

[tup] Cambell.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

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