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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#107076: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:11:48 PM

Also, I didn't notice that Tyk brought me up in the effortpost, so:

As far as the question of competition goes, the one Destiny villain who clearly blows Ghaul away in terms of heinousness is Oryx, the eponymous Big Bad of The Taken King expansion. However, he's a literal god (albeit with a lower-case G) who's been rampaging across the entire galaxy for an unspecified but really long time, so the resources are quite different to Ghaul, who's a more mundane evil space emperor.

Oryx himself isn't really worthy of CM discussion, BTW, both for being a (...strange) case of Even Evil Has Loved Ones and for the highly debatable nature of how much of his actions and backstory are technically "onscreen."

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#107077: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:14:31 PM

[tup] Image 1 for Lazarevic and Image 2 for Pierce.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#107079: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:24:23 PM

Thank you kindly Lighty.

Well I can still do an effort post on Lore or we could just cut him. I do not mind either way.

@ACW, I think Briggs have enough votes to count, put him at the end of the lit section, his book came out later then the others.

edited 25th Jan '18 4:26:50 PM by Overlord

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#107080: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:29:06 PM

The images for Pierce and Lazarevic look nice. The ones for The Flash and Asav I'm kinda "meh" about.

@nrjxll: Thanks for that. I actually did think about watching playthroughs of all the DLCs from the original Destiny game. Until I didn't.

I'm kinda sad now though. I sorta wanna effortpost Oryx just because of how visually badass and threatening he looks. I'm not even joking. The one thing I do appreciate about Destiny is the lore of the universe, and I do think that a lot of the enemy designs look magnificent. And it just so happens that the one villain who counts as a CM..........is an ugly-looking bulk-enhanced marshmallow. That is upsetting. >__>

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#107081: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:41:20 PM

Oh, and 'Yes' to Ghaul as well. Knew it was just a matter of time before SOMEONE counted in that game. XD

If any pic for Asav woudl work, I'd personally lean towards this one, but I'm not sure how good it is considering you can't see his target's face.

edited 25th Jan '18 4:41:33 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107082: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:43:12 PM

I don't really like any of the pictures from Uncharted. All of them just sort of have the general look and feel of "generic bad guy pointing a gun at a person." I'm a bit warmer with Pierce given the victim in the picture is a kid and the hostage situation is more clear.

Alright, for my second candidate today...

What's the setting?

Sym-Bionic Titan is another Genndy Tartakovsky master work and a seriously underrated gem of a cartoon that was cut off at a paltry twenty episodes... a damn shame. A CN original that was shockingly violent for the time, Sym-Bionic Titan revolves around three exiles from the planet Galaluna; optimistic princess Ilana, brooding bodyguard Lance, and robo-nerd Octus. Using the power of Galalunan mechas (also allowing them to combine said mechas to form the titular Sym-Bionic Titan) the three balance high school shenanigans with defending the planet Earth from the Mutraddi, the monstrous forces of the evil General Modula.

Now... Modula already counts, and he counts firmly with truckloads of torture, onscreen brutal murder, the violent subjugation and slaughter of planet and the attempted decimation of millions of lives on Earth. He's had an entry I wanted to touch up for a fair while as it's a tiny bit clunky, but rewatching the series? I think there's another that may actually be worth an effortpost. Monster of the Week for episode sixteen, enter the unnamed Galalunian Commander.

Who is the Traitor? What has he done?

An unnamed, stern commander of Galaluna's military, the traitorous commander is actually in league with Modula to facilitate Modula's invasion of Galaluna. In the sixteenth episode "Escape from Galaluna" which actually highlights how this happened, the traitor makes his first appearance leading a mission on one of Galaluna's moons where the Mutraddi have taken a bunch of soldiers hostage. The traitor initially just appears to be an obstructive arsehat who underestimates the danger of the Mutraddi... turns out? This was entirely deliberate on his part, trying to stall Lance for long enough to let the hostages be butchered and the Mutraddi to get their orders from Modula himself. When Lance finally sneaks around the traitor, the hostages are already dead, but Lance arrives just in time to see the Mutraddi jamming Galaluna's signals for the coming invasion with Modula's orders. Killing the Mutraddi, the traitor comes in and sees the dead hostages, immediately throwing the blame of their deaths onto Lance and setting him to hang as the King refuses to listen to Lance's desperate pleads that the invasion is coming.

With the final complication to the invasion out of the way? The traitor allows the Mutraddi safe passage into Galaluna's defenses... whereupon they ravage the planet and cause untold death and mayhem, with Galaluna's capital city razed and many, many innocent people clearly dying. The traitor gleefully reveals himself when Lance escapes, saying he's planned and facilitated the entire invasion and coup over a course of years to usher in an era of conquest and strength among Galaluna — and, of course, a "reward beyond measure" at the hands of his boss Modula. Visibly unrepentant to the chaos he's let happen and the countless lives being lost, the traitor whips out his sword and states that he'll savor killing Lance before ordering the Mutraddi to exterminate the royal family as well.

Thus ensues what I consider to be the best fight sequence ever animated by Genndy Tartakovsky — and that is goddamned saying something. Throughout the entire second half of the episode, Lance and the traitor have a prolonged, epic duel with each other until Lance finally corners the traitor on the remains of a decimated bridge... where he catches the traitor's stroke with a rock and impales the traitor straight through the stomach, killing him and plunging his body into the waters of Galaluna.

Good show.

Any mitigating factors?

Any redeeming qualities with the traitor himself? Zilch, zip, and zero. The traitor is just a smug, power-hungry Social Darwinist who sells out his entire planet and countless innocent lives to be slaughtered and enslaved by a tyrant for reward and the promise of a world of conquest. No loyalty to his people, no genuine relationships, and he's got plenty of character for a nameless adversary (it's... strange that we never learn his name, but his motives and personality are very clear). The traitor does say he's not the only traitor in Galaluna's ranks, but — perhaps as a consequence of the show being cancelled — we never see any of them. All indication is that the traitor is the one most responsible for collapsing Galaluna's defenses and facilitating the invasion in the first place.

Heinous standard? Modula is a tough cookie, but... the traitor's in literally no place to compete with him resources-wise. He's one of Modula's men (like Xeexi, who's fairly nasty himself with some torture and mayhem, but I don't think he measures up to the traitor's overall plan), but at the same time, the traitor is by far the nastiest of Modula's goons, Mutraddi or otherwise, for two reasons. One? The sheer scale of his betrayal. The traitor makes it nakedly apparent that he does not care an ounce for the countless, countless innocent lives he's doomed to Modula's forces as he watches the kingdom burn with a smirk on his face while confronting a horrified Lance. For a human baddie, this is godawful and it's treated as such, with Lance stating "what have you done?!" to emphasize the blame placed on his shoulders. Number two? The traitor's acting on far more than just orders. There's a very, very clear sense of self-serving ambition to the traitor's motivation. He refers to Modula as "master" but at the same time makes it explicit he's only on the whole invasion thing for the reward and the glory, rather than most of Modula's minions who are either mindless creatures or just serve him out of terror or abundant loyalty.

Ultimately? I had to give this a lot of thought, but I think the traitor stands out for where he is. The traitor's a minor villain in the long scheme, but he's uniquely autonomous in how he arranges the whole invasion with not a word of actual screentime shared between him and his boss, with quite a bit of personal dickery to compound selling out his entire world to death and destruction — which, on its own, I think clears him over the baseline given that he knows the sheer scale of destruction he's allowing to happen and simply does not give a shit whatsoever.

Conclusion?

Again, this is a character I never would have thought would qualify looking back at the series, but rewatching... honestly? I think the case can be made for him. I'm still wary and I'm eager to see some contention if it comes to it, but I lean weaker keep to be honest.

Thoughts?

edited 25th Jan '18 4:51:24 PM by Scraggle

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#107083: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:50:28 PM

And a 'Yes' to the Traitor.

Seriously, folks. Watch that fight scene. Ranks as one of the best fights in any western animated production ever.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107085: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:56:55 PM

I'll read that effortpost tomorrow morning, but if he counts, he'd be at least the third for Corey Burton, after DCAU!Brainiac and Argost.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#107086: Jan 25th 2018 at 4:58:41 PM

@MenInGreyBlack: Oh yeah, that's better.

@Scrags: I'm not sure if that's Genndy Tartakovsky's best fight scene period (I see you, Star Wars: Clone Wars and Samurai Jack), but damn is it incredibly well-shot and choreographed.

[tup] Traitorous Galalunian Commander.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107087: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:03:34 PM

[up] You have no idea how hard it was to pick. The man's a legend at animating those kinds of sequences.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107088: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:06:56 PM

Hell, The Powerpuff Girls had some pretty cool (and violent) fight scenes.

BTW, I'll do Skull's writeup tomorrow. Expect another 1 or 2 effortposts within the next few days.

edited 25th Jan '18 5:11:18 PM by ACW

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#107089: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:10:59 PM

[tup] Traitorous Galalunian Commander.

Man I hope CN revives Symbiotic Titan and put it into the Adult Swim line up like they did with Samurai Jack, I really liked that show

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107090: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:11:43 PM

Probably not going to happen, unfortunately. CN literally wrote the show off on all forms, meaning short of a miracle it's never going to continue on that network.

InvincibleBadass Since: May, 2017
#107091: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:13:36 PM

I consider Black Hat from villainous to be a Complete monster

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107092: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:14:55 PM

Well, tough, he isn't one.

By the way, if you were the one bloating those pages with false information? Stop it.

edited 25th Jan '18 5:15:33 PM by Scraggle

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#107093: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:15:34 PM

The problem with Black Hat Is that he is mostly played for laughs.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#107094: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:16:53 PM

[tup] to Ghaul,Joker and Traitor

Yea....speaking of Sym Bionic Titan....Have to admit that I was one of the guys who wants to see a good proper end for that. And speaking of that show, I have a feeling that Modula will be cut if the show continued (Which I have to admit that I would like to see it).....But yea, Due to CN's restriction regarding toys that selling to boys.....just bugs me

[down],[down][down] Seriously though CN has a pretty weird standard when it comes to audience demographic....And I felt they tried way too hard to be a toy company that sells toys to boys [lol]

edited 25th Jan '18 5:26:10 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#107095: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:17:24 PM

And apparently Titan was cancelled because it couldn't get a toy license. That seems like a very...petty reason to cancel something.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#107096: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:21:03 PM

Can't be as petty as cancelling a show because more adults and female children are buying your toys and watching your series than male kids. just bugs me

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#107097: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:25:03 PM

Meanwhile CN keeps on spewing Teen Titans Go! episodes and even a theatrical movie, right at our face despite our dislike for it, because they have the DC imprint on it and have the characters from their previous cartoon. just bugs me

edited 25th Jan '18 5:26:35 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#107098: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:29:23 PM

I think we should get back on topic now.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#107099: Jan 25th 2018 at 5:32:47 PM

Speaking of getting back on topic....Honestly I would love to propose a character from a game that I play and I discussed the matter with Scraggs in P Ms. While I do want to post this characters after the last units in JP got released in Global....His arc already ended months or a year ago.....Should I EP this guy now or not?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#107100: Jan 25th 2018 at 6:02:44 PM

[tup]Traitor.

Why so serious?

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