During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Keeper, and just going to get this out of the way before I go to sleep.
- Four of the Apocalypse (1975): Chaco is a ruthless gunman and bandit who ingratiates himself with the titular four and joins them on their journey. First displaying his sadism by flaying a captured lawman, Chaco soon after turns on the quartet, raping the sole female of the group, Bunny, and fatally shooting one of them before leaving them for dead. Joined by his fellow outlaws, Chaco callously slaughters a group of peaceful evangelists, including the children, in order to steal their supplies. When he later finds himself at the mercy of Stubby, one of the men he previously left for dead, Chaco spends his last moments taunting him over Bunny's rape before being gunned down.
edited 23rd Jan '18 9:41:44 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?So I have a weird hypothetical question. I know that no one from Dragon Ball Z Abridged will ever qualify, but I just wanted to check. If the Abridged version of Cell was in the original Dragon Ball, could he theoretically qualify? Say he was just as silly, charming, social, and witty as the Abridged version, but all of his atrocities were played completely seriously and everyone else acted like their normal selves. In a way he'd kinda be like the Joker in that regard. Could Cell in this instance theorically qualify? Again, I'm not trying to actually nominate him, I just wanted to check.
Is it possible to get Hayes's entry (Undefeated Bahamut Chronicles) revised? She's not actually from the Old Arcadia Empire, rather, she's from the Holy Arcadia Empire. There's a distinction between the Old Arcadia Empire and the Holy Arcadia empire that preceded it.
Basically, the Holy Arcadia Empire was overthrown and replaced by what is known as the Old Arcadia Empire several centuries ago, which was then overthrown and replaced by the Kingdom of Atismata in the present. Hayes's entire beef with the Kingdom of Atismata is basically Misplaced Retribution.
Hello. I've been wondering if we could make an entry about Hojo in Final Fantasy VII Machinabridged . I know he already has one in Final Fantasy VII, but I found this incarnation to be even more repulsive than his canon counterpart. Abridged!Hojo, beyond doing every atrocities his canon counterpart did, is also stated to force species to interbreed for his own sick amusement instead of For Science! and there is a strong hint that he raped Aerith's mother (or at the very least subjected her to his fetish). Contrary to Freeza in Dragon Ball Z Abridged, he's not always played for laughs. (His statement that he "experimented" with Aerith's mom for instance.) The series is still ongoing, but in my opinion after two seasons and given the fact that it follows the plot of Final Fantasy VII, we saw enough of Abridged!Hojo to tell he's a CM. But I wanted to know what others think.
So is it worth it to already try an effort post about him or should I wait after the end of the series?
edited 24th Jan '18 12:49:24 AM by rufusluciusivan
@Queen: Unless this is actually pertinent to a candidate, I don't see why something this baseless needs to be brought up here.
@Bug: Feel free to bring up a revised writeup.
@Rufus: I'd probably wait until the series closes. You really can't be entirely certain about qualifiers with series like these until everything is definitively spelled out.
Hence why Abridged!Freeza will never count.
edited 24th Jan '18 1:10:58 AM by Scraggle
Alright, here's a proposed rewrite.
- Undefeated Bahamut Chronicle: Hayes is the former third princess of the ancient Holy Arcadia Empire obsessed with nothing less than the annihilation of the new Kingdom of Atismata and the start of her own tyrannical version of her former regime. Kickstarting her war against Atismata by selling weapons and information to their enemies, Hayes makes her first formal move by leading an assault on one of the Kingdom's training academies, killing anyone in her way. Forcing Lux to assist her in showing her the way to an ancient ruin by infecting the boy's friend Phi with a demonic infection, Hayes goes back on her word and orders a corrupted Phi to slaughter Lux and her other friends, planning to cure the girl only after her friends are dead so as to drive her to killing herself. In her most despicable move, Hayes uses the colossal Gigas, supporters of the Old Arcadia Empirenote , and soldiers from the Heiburg Republic to lead a full-scale invasion of Atismata, ordering the entire city and its countless inhabitants be wiped out to pave the way for her new coming order where she reigns supreme once more. While she has the Freudian Excuse of losing her entire livelihood due to her empire being overthrown and replaced by first members of the evil Old Arcadia Empire, she is willing to commit genocide and human experimentation on a new kingdom that is both formed centuries after her usurpers died and distinct from the Old Empire, making her crusade a case of Disproportionate and Misplaced Retribution. This, along with her sadism and belief that her bloodline entitles her to be a tyrant, establishes her as similar to and worse than her former oppressors.
Pinkerton and Keeper
Also I'm familiar with Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue and Power Rangers Rpm. So I want to give queen Bansheera and Venjix a rewrite to include some stuff that's missing.
Could acw put that in the pending write ups and I'll do it later.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@Stellarvore: Mmm. I'd say, after taking a look at the Blue-and-Orange Morality trope, that that should be cut for not quite fitting. VTM makes it clear at several points that just because you reject human morality doesn't mean that you aren't evil.
What is the work?
The Black Hearts is a RWBY fanfic dedicated to telling Mercury's past.
Who is he?
Marcus Black.
What does he do?
A dishonorably discharged Atlas soldier, who was kicked out for his sadistic tendencies, Marcus met and married a nurse named Melanie who treated his wounds. With her, he had Mercury, and was a very bad person to both of them. He would often argue and beat Melanie, and would viciously beat Mercury and mock him during training.
Eventually becoming an assassin, Marcus racked up a body count of over seventy people. He proved himself to be just as sadistic as Mercury would become, and would often show his son how to torture and murder in unique ways. Like placing lightning dust on a person's tongue.
In one instance, he brought Mercury on a job and forced his son to kill a father in front of his child, then killed the girl himself. When they got home, he beat Mercury for feeling guilty. He also regularly brings targets he is paid to torture home, liking bringing a girl he was paid to torture home. When his wife forced him to eat her cooking by pointing a gun to his face, he expressed nothing but annoyance that he was unable to continue his job.
After moving to the mountains when Melanie left him and Mercury, Marcus attempted to kill his son after the kid gave him a “The Reason You Suck” Speech.
Freudian Excuse or mitigating factors?
None to speak of.
Heinous Standard?
He lacks Cinder's resources and body count, but I feel his blatant cruelty and sadism more than makes up for it. He does have a decent kill racket, and his actions in story are enough to establish a pattern.
Conclusion?
I say yes!
Alright, I've added Horne.
Dycedarg at least could use expansion.
EDIT: Did we decide to cut Carl?
edited 24th Jan '18 3:08:43 AM by ACW
@miraculous Good luck with Venjix and Bansheera rewrite as I think they deserve it given that they are big bad of Power Rangers series and I find it very funny that people like Serrator or Darkonda has many crimes compared to them.
I know that....Just saw some of the videos regarding Serrator on Youtube and he truly is a nasty piece of work....
edited 24th Jan '18 3:32:01 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."![]()
It took awhile because the search function is wonky but apparently he does show up in the story in flashbacks from the original effort-post which I finally found
Though it's written very badly, so could somome please rewrite it.
@elfenflied: Dont think Darkonda and Serrator are harmless or anything. Thoose two are nasty pieces of work who clear power ranger's heinous standerd by a long mile.
edited 24th Jan '18 3:35:47 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."![]()
![]()
Yeah a liitle disappointed though that they didnt use Serrator as the actual Big Bad as he is far more interesting than Master Xandred and frankly much cooler and more intimidating than Xandred.
@UK : Let me think on it as its a bit late here.
edited 24th Jan '18 4:56:55 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@miraculous Regarding Xandred....I have to admit that he does have a laughable moment or played for laughs sometimes. But I dont think it detracts from his seriousness.....And when he become a serious threat. He will stop playing and become one.
@UK Also, sorry for ignoring your RWBY candidate....think ill abstain
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."ŪYeah to Marcus after getting up and thinking it over.
Still I agrre with lighty could we please tone it down with the RWBY fanfic villains as we are approving so many that its becoming derivative.
Image suggestion:
Hunter zolomon/Zoom killing Henry allen
from The Flash (2014)
edited 24th Jan '18 6:54:29 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."And speaking of redundant, derivative CMs, here's one
What's the work?
Set in 1900, The Batman of Arkham is an Elseworlds comic by Alan Grant (who also wrote, or helped write, the Batman/Daredevil crossover that gave us Scarecrow; the Spawn crossover; in addition, he created current page image Victor Zsasz). Quoting from the work page: "Batman prowls the streets of Gotham to save the innocent and fight crime, but by day Bruce Wayne is a respected psychiatrist at Arkham Asylum, turning it from a Bedlam House into a place where those housed in its walls receive the compassion and help that they need."
Who's the candidate and what has he done?
My first Batman CM, Abattoir, was somewhat obscure. This candidate...isn't. It's The Joker (yes, again
).
So, as the summary stated. Bruce Wayne used his family fortune to buy Arkham. He works there as a psychiatrist, and actually cares about the patients and wants to help them. Killer Croc, especially, is quite sympathetic here.
Sidenote: Professor Jonathan Crane (never called The Scarecrow here, but his shadow always looks like a scarecrow) believes fear is the only way to control lunacy, the total opposite of Bruce. I'm half-tempted to propose Crane, but as much of a jerk as he is, he probably fails the heinous test.
Anyway, a Laughing Mad man is brought into Arkham, a victim of Joker's laughing gas (a relatively lucky victim, as most die); Commissioner Gordon informs Bruce that Joker and his gang robbed a chemicals factory the previous night. After confronting Joker and his gang, Bruce (as Batman) gets sprayed with Joker's laughing gas; Joker claims within a week Gotham will either be laughing or dead, then uses a bomb to try to kill Batman (who manages to escape).
After a week in Arkham himself (there's some other stuff abut Crane taking over Arkham, but that's not relevant to this effortpost), Bruce manages to get out in time to stop Joker's plan: To use a hot air balloon and use bombs filled with his gas all over Gotham. Joker manages to seemingly escape in his balloon, but Batman tosses a flare?stick? (what exactly IS he tossing?
) that ignites the bombs—and Joker. Batman at first is willing to let Joker die, but then decides to never cross that line, and leaves him tied up for the police.
In the end, Bruce returns to Arkham, fires Crane, and vows to Joker (now straitjacketed and, due to the gas, even MORE Laughing Mad than usual) that he will be cured.
Heinousness?
Well, Two-Face almost kills someone (stopped by Batman); there are the usual other misfits (albeit some, like Croc and Ivy, rather sympathetic); and you've got Crane's dickishness.
That said, Joker is worse than any of them, and EASILY passes the baseline. He tries to make all of Gotham insane (at best) or dead (at worst); even in 1900, that's thousands (AT LEAST) of people. Plus, since it's Elseworlds, he doesn't have to compete with regular Joker.
Disqualifiers?
It's Joker.
ALTHOUGH, for the sake of completion, here's Bruce's last speech to Joker:
Conclusion
Different time period, same Joker. Keeper.
edited 24th Jan '18 7:35:35 AM by ACW

Speaking of rewrite....Is it me or is Dycedarg and Queen Bansheera deserves it? I knew that the latter was pretty much one of the most heinous villains that Power Rangers faced. But eh, I think I'm fine if we leave the two as they were
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."