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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#106879: Jan 23rd 2018 at 3:34:07 PM

[tup]Shitashimo, Horne, Barbas, Mundi, Ultimate Reed, Ripper, Chaco, Krieger, Joker, Sabertooth, Michael, Fergus, The Keeper, and Pinkerton

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#106880: Jan 23rd 2018 at 3:35:45 PM

[tup]The Keeper. How many CMs has Lee played?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#106882: Jan 23rd 2018 at 4:22:09 PM

[tup] to Mr. Thaddeus Pinkerton (I wonder if the writer was inspired by that episode of Star Trek)and The Keeper.

To be honest, I've never had a problem long effort posts, just as long as the information is relevant. When even a half second is enough time to disqualify a candidate, it pays to know every relevant detail.

[up] Three. This will be his fourth. And all proposed in two weeks.

edited 23rd Jan '18 4:33:54 PM by MGD107

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106884: Jan 23rd 2018 at 4:41:14 PM

There'll be a fifth...but I'm saving the fifth to Halloween. It'll be a good one.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#106885: Jan 23rd 2018 at 4:42:41 PM

I just noticed a strange thing:

Casper https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivSenw8llok&page=2112#52781 was never added to the Complete Monster page and the YMMV Octopus page that was created to post it in the past was deleted.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#106887: Jan 23rd 2018 at 4:48:24 PM

[up] Huh?

  • Checks*

Ah. Okay, that confused me since he's from a movie and for some reason it didn't show up when I searched for it.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#106888: Jan 23rd 2018 at 4:51:32 PM

Rewrite I'm proposing for Sarris:

The bloodthirsty General Roth'h'ar Sarris is a vile warlord and markedly darker than anyone else in the film. Seeking a powerful, mysterious device known as the Omega 13, Sarris launches a war against the peaceful Thermians, capturing and torturing many to death, using others as labor for his mines or sex slaves. Attempting to have the cast of Galaxy Quest killed by throwing them out an airlock after forcing their "captain" to reveal to the Thermian leader Malthasar they are just actors to crush his spirit, Sarris cruelly drains the Thermain ship of air, leaving them to slowly suffocate along with many of his own troops he abandons.

edited 23rd Jan '18 9:21:41 PM by 43110

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#106889: Jan 23rd 2018 at 5:01:20 PM

Also, confusing thing that may effect Pony POV Series Discord's status:

During the Final Battle arc of the fic, it turns out that Discord actually HAS developed familial love for Diamond Tiara...But here's the confusing part:

He WOULD NOT act on this, including taking her into a battle he was aware would likely end in both their deaths, and even gives up a perfectly good opportunity during a Cosmic Retcon to Ret-Gone his corruption of her from the timeline with next to no actual consequences to himself while still allowing him to get what he desired all out of selfishness (long story).

He only has second thoughts after (It Makes Sense in Context) his insanity is literally erased from existence (long story short, he manifested a bunch of Literal Split Personality avatars of himself, one of which is his insanity, which Scootaloo used a gift from his mother Entropy to wipe out of existence, taking Discord's insanity with it), which prompts a bigger Heel Realization from Discord causing him to be open to just calling it quits and take the two of them somewhere Diamond won't be harmed until Diamond (now Nightmare Nihilis) usurps him as the final boss.

Does this disqualify Discord given the catalyst is another character literally erasing a portion of his soul that permitted him to be as vile as he was from existence? As if not, he would've continued down a path that was ultimately completely selfish and would've gotten Diamond killed.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#106890: Jan 23rd 2018 at 5:08:16 PM

Lighty: Oh I can't wait for Halloween now.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106891: Jan 23rd 2018 at 5:19:01 PM

I'll just say I'll reserve a certain long-running vampire series for 10/31

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#106892: Jan 23rd 2018 at 6:07:41 PM

[up] Speaking of which didn’t you reserve the discussion for Runaways today is the 23rd

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106893: Jan 23rd 2018 at 6:11:11 PM

Oh, yeah...nobody counts yet, but keep a firm eye on Big Bad Jonah

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106894: Jan 23rd 2018 at 6:20:18 PM

[tup] Keeper

As for Discord... Huh? I THINK that falls under the Heel–Face Brainwashing rule, so I'd say keep him.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#106896: Jan 23rd 2018 at 6:40:15 PM

[up]That's what I was thinking, since Discord's Heel Realization came from the part of his mind that allowed him to rationalize his horrible actions being deleted.

Long story short, the Draconequi in this universe have the ability to create avatars called Detachments (full versions of their individual parts each representing a different aspect of their personality) for the Final Battle (Discord's motive at this point is to make as big of a show as possible, as he literally CAN'T avoid the final battle due to the aforementioned Cosmic Retcon forcing him to), one of which, Goatcord, represents his insanity (his snake part represents his ego, his lion part represents his destructive impulses, his dragon component represents his greed, ect.).

In the previous Arc, Discord's mother Entropy, the Top God of Nothingness and the End (who despite that is actually Good Is Not Nice at worst) gave the CMC capes made from her power to protect them, and Scootaloo killed Goatcord with it. As one of Entropy's primary powers is to erase anything she desires from existence, this erased Goatcord permanently and Discord's insanity along with it.

Rendered sane, Discord could no longer delude himself and was forced to have a Heel Realization and was only stopped from taking Diamond somewhere safe by Diamond herself usurping him.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106897: Jan 23rd 2018 at 7:10:39 PM

[tup] Keeper; seems like that moment indeed falls under Pragmatic Villainy.

I'll have yet another incarnation of our favorite Monster Clown and Nazi supervillain in the next few days. I MAY also have another incarnation of Vandal Savage.

That Sarris rewrite almost seems TOO short. BTW, think you can trim Kreiger?

edited 23rd Jan '18 7:11:28 PM by ACW

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#106898: Jan 23rd 2018 at 8:32:52 PM

Maybe I'm biased because I rewrote it first, but I think Sarris' writeup is good as it is: no changes necessary.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106899: Jan 23rd 2018 at 8:37:48 PM

I can see the merits in both the original and a rewrite... actually, does anyone mind if I take a whack at it? I think I can make something that's sort of an intermediary between both while removing the issue of length, flow, and unneeded detail. For starters, I don't think we need to include the bits with what he specifically does to the Thermians (the mines, sex slaves, etc.) as that's all complete Offscreen Villainy.

By the way, ACW, going to tag Horne on my pending? I admit I sort of nearly forgot about him until the subject came screaming back into my head this afternoon.

edited 23rd Jan '18 8:38:36 PM by Scraggle

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106900: Jan 23rd 2018 at 8:46:48 PM

43110 and I hashed out this tweaking of my Satan Man rewrite:


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