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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106826: Jan 22nd 2018 at 4:53:48 PM

So bringing this up now but is anyone familiar with Final Fantasy Tactics. So they could rewrite this as its not Folmarv who counts as a CM but the lucavi demon possessing him named Hashmal(um). Plus for The Heavy it's a bit short.

edited 22nd Jan '18 4:55:40 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#106827: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:00:49 PM

Alrighty, now for my second Marvel baddie this batch...

What's the work?

Wolverine MAX is a 2012 Marvel comic series that is in the "mature" setting.

It....pretty much is what it says on the tin. Wolverine, aka Logan, in a more bloody setting. Coolio.

Who is he?

Victor Creed, perhaps better known to some around here as Sabretooth, is the Arc Villain of the comic. Resembling his 616 "canon" counterpart in many aspects, Creed is a nigh-immortal psychopath with incredible regenerative abilities and a predilection towards vicious dismemberment and cannibalism.

What has he done?

Creed met our hero Logan some 150 years ago in Feudal Japan. Teaming up with Logan and proclaiming them to be "soulmates," Creed lead Logan on various "adventures" and the like, culminating in the duo teaming up with the Shogunate.

Taking the opportunity to indulge his sadistic tendencies, Creed eventually lead the full-scale slaughter of an enemy base. When he learned that several of the injured soldiers had crawled their way to a peaceful monastery, Creed massacred the monks there for harboring enemies, even taking the time to confront the leader of the monks and give him a dishonorable death just to torment him. Specifically, Creed rips his head off and drinks up his blood.

This act disgusting even the savage Logan, Logan eventually turned on Creed to steal back a legendary sword of the Yashida from him so as to appease Logan's lover Mariko. Attempting to murder Logan for this betrayal, Creed was instead defeated by Logan and left alive.

Spending the next few decades allying with the Yakuza, Creed moved his way up until he became the number two man in the Yakuza. Now the present, Creed is still obsessed with reclaiming the Yashida sword, and soon enough learns info that the sword is being smuggled out on a plane.

Deciding to rather destroy the sword than have it taken away from the country, Creed pays the young woman Yami to blow the entire plane up in a suicide bomb, promising to give her family a comfortable life in exchange. Creed is lying, in actuality, and later mocks the girl for ever believing him.

As Yami blows up the jumbo plane, killing over 375 people—including infants onboard—Creed later learns that the info was bad....he shrugs it off and keeps searching.

Eventually tracking down an amnesiac Logan being confronted by two police officers, Creed promptly rips their heads from their shoulders and counters Logan's statement that it was unnecessary by proclaiming "True, but I wanted to do it."

Brutally beating Logan and ordering him to track down the Yashida sword for him, Creed gives Logan an ultimatum....to insure that the sword isn't in fact being smuggled out of the country by surviving members of the Yashida clan? Creed's going to keep organizing entire jumbo planes by blown out of the sky over and over again until he makes sure that the Yashida sword is either in his hands, or destroyed.

As Logan eventually finds the Yashida sword and recovers his memories of Creed slaughtering the monk monastery, he gets into a duel with Creed where he calls him out on killing nearly 400 people in a bout of "bad info." Creed's response? "Yeah, whatever."

Creed overpowers Logan and, after considering lopping off Logan's arms, Creed instead prompts to gleefully stab out both of his eyes before attempting to leave him.

Logan recovers quicker than expected and, after a short fight, disembowels Creed. As Logan leaves Creed to be arrested by arriving police, Creed begins screaming that Logan needs him and is nothing without him, much to Logan's indifference.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

None of either that hold up. Creed claims that he is "devoted" to Logan, and even goes so far as to keep a scar Logan gave him centuries ago carved into his face, scratching it in anew every time it heals.

When he's left by Logan to be arrested, Creed begins begging Logan to save him, proclaiming that he cares for Logan and that they can both rule the Yakuza together. Logan promptly calls out Creed that his "care" isn't that at all, but a sick obsession with Logan over the fact that Creed doesn't have a murder buddy who will indulge in his "animal" side.

While Creed expresses some measure of loneliness with being immortal, any of that is completely overwritten by his rampant sadism and sick glee with hurting others. He just wants Logan as a fellow serial killer in arms, and has zero problem torturing or maiming Logan with a smile on his face if the need be.

Heinousness?

Worst in the comic, and while it seems to take place in the Punisher MAX universe which has a HELLA high standard, Creed still handily stands out given his brutal massacre of a defenseless monastery, the downing of a jumbo plane, the attempted downing of several more if his demands aren't met, and his overall sadistic personality.

Final Verdict?

Keeeeep.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#106828: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:02:36 PM

[tup] Sabretooth. Again, this is one of those examples in suprised doesn't habe that many CM renditions.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#106829: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:04:57 PM

[tup] Sabretooth v. 2.5, unsurprisingly.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106830: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:08:08 PM

Yes to Creed, and...

  • Hashmal, master of the Lucavi and the demon possessing Vormav Tingel. The mastermind of nearly every misfortune in the game, Hashmal manipulates the massive war that claims countless lives so he can manipulate the resurrection of Altima. Upon confronting Ramza, who had learned that the Ultimate Church was corrupt, Hashmal massacred all present, including his host's own son. Tricking others into being possessed by the Lucavi and broadening the monstrous conflict, Hashmal kidnaps Ramza's sister Alma to use her as the host of Altima, only caring about creating more death and destruction to revive Altima and unleash her upon the unsuspecting world.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106831: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:11:15 PM

[tup] MAX!Sabretooth. I think, considering resources, he measures up enough.

Lighty, could you please expand the other Ivalice entries?

  • Dycedarg Beoulve initially appears to be just another ruthless, power-hungry aristocrat, but turns out to be quite possibly the most evil character in the game. He murdered his own father for power and, along with his childhood friend, Duke Bestrald Larg, plunged Ivalice into civil war against Duke Goltanna. Then he backstabs and murders Larg as well, and when his brothers Zalbaag and Ramza call him out on his actions, he has the audacity to be offended. When he merged with Adrammelech, he murdered Zalbaag as well.
  • Final Fantasy XII: Judge Bergan is a ruthless, cruel man who decides, on a whim, to slaughter half the population of Mt. Bur-Omisace, including Gran Kiltias, who the in-game equivalent to The Pope. He enjoys killing anyone who would stand between him and his goals, including his ally, Judge Drace. His ultimate goal is to dominate everything with sheer physical might, no matter what happens to anyone else.

edited 22nd Jan '18 5:12:49 PM by ACW

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#106833: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:29:18 PM

I've got some free time on my hands, so I may as well do writeups for Kit and Madeleine.

The Forsaken: Kit is one of the last of the Forsaken, and by all evidence, may very well be one of the most sadistic. He kicks off the plot by breaking into a young woman's house and murdering her parents, then biting her before ordering one of his underlings to kill her. When he is insulted by a partygoer, he rips out his heart and slaughters everyone else at the party. During his pursuit of the heroes, Kit and his underlings murder a motel owner as well as a couple of good samaritans on the road. With his underlings all dead and the dawn rapidly approaching, he torments the girl he bit and attempts to coerce the hero into becoming his new day driver.

Patchwork: Madeleine manages to stand out as a genuinely disturbing character in this otherwise light-hearted horror-comedy. Prior to her surgery, she was a Serial Killer who murdered people and kept their dismembered remains stored in her fridge. After she discovered the procedure for Tom Blake's surgery, her immediate response was to offer to supply bodies herself. She followed both Ellie and Jen as they left the bar, killing the both of them and taking their bodies to be attached to hers. When the two other women resolved to murder those responsible for their condition, she did nothing to stop them, and only tried to take control when it became clear that the other women opposed her plan to complete the surgery. Vain and narcissistic to the extreme, Madeleine murdered others purely out of insecurity with her own beauty.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106834: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:30:14 PM

[up] Did they both get enough votes?

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106835: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:31:33 PM

[tup] Sabretooth.

I recently played through Final Fantasy XII, so is it okay if I attempt Bergan's rewrite? Haven't done an actual writeup before but I think I could handle it. Just give me a little time to write it up.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#106837: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:44:47 PM

[up][up][up]Yes they did. I'd link you to the pages, but I think they're too far back.

EDIT: Looks like Madeleine got at least 17 (!) upvotes. Unsure on Kit.

EDIT: Kit has about 10 upvotes.

edited 22nd Jan '18 6:01:19 PM by Stellarvore

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106838: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:06:48 PM

Alright, here's my attempt at a Bergan writeup. No potholes, not really great with those, but I think it covers all the major points.

  • Final Fantasy XII: Judge Bergan is a ruthless Judge Magister of the Archadian Empire. He supports Vayne Solidor's rise to Emperor because he admires his desire for power and the ruthless means he uses to achieve his ends. When his ally Judge Drace accuses Vayne of murdering his father to take the throne, Bergan gleefully strikes her down and is the only Judge who is unmoved by her execution. Later he and his fellow Judges travel to Mt. Bur-Omisace, a major religious site and home to many refugees, to retrieve Vayne's brother Larsa. While there, Bergan leads a slaughter of the innocents who live there and murders the religious leader known as the Gran Kiltias. While the other Archadians in the game are WellIntentionedExtremists, Bergan was simply interested in power.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106839: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:09:52 PM

  • The Web: Andrew Colby is a Corrupt Corporate Executive who embezzled a million dollars from his company. Tricking an associate into taking the rap, he left the guy imprisoned for five years while he built a business empire off the dough. When his associate got out, Colby decided to weasel his way out of their deal by arranging things so his bodyguard, Bob Regan, would kill the man in apparent defense of his boss. As Regan investigates, it's learned that Colby killed the engraver he had counterfeit the stolen money killed at the time of his original scheme. Deciding Regan has come too close to exposing his crimes, he kills his Dragon and has Regan and his Loveinterest framed for the murder. When deceived into thinking his victim is alive, he tries to strangle him himself before being caught by the police.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106840: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:12:10 PM

[up][up] Please add to the Drafts. FYI, for plurals, it's {{ well intentioned extremist}}s (get rid of the space before the w)

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106841: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:26:12 PM

EDIT: Never mind, I figured it out.

edited 22nd Jan '18 6:26:54 PM by TommyFresh

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#106843: Jan 22nd 2018 at 7:00:56 PM

I asked this a while back, and I don't know if I ever got an answer. Found this under Andrei's character tab:

Affably Evil: The first time you meet, he holds to Sacred Hospitality very seriously, and offers you power and "improvements" if you defect. Unless you're Tremere.

From my limited understanding of the source material, it's pretty much required for Tzimisce to be polite to their guests. And having played the game, his politeness did seem genuine, even if he later displayed anger towards you later on for understandable reasons. What do you guys think?

[down]I suggested cutting him? That's not a rhetorical question; I really can't remember. Granted, it was a while ago, so. But yeah, fair enough. Personally, I don't think Affably Evil by itself should be a disqualifier, but I'll say no more on that.

edited 22nd Jan '18 7:13:19 PM by Stellarvore

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106844: Jan 22nd 2018 at 7:02:33 PM

I did respond. Absolute nay to cutting Andrei. Trying to potentially recruit an asset and superficial politeness isn't enough here given all he pulls

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106845: Jan 22nd 2018 at 7:15:25 PM

[tup] Sabertooth and Hasmal & Bergan rewrites....Thanks Lighty and Tommy

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#106846: Jan 22nd 2018 at 7:29:52 PM

Imo Affably Evil is disqualifying, as it requires the villain to have genuine friendliness. It's just how often people write off characters who are Faux Affably Evil or Bitch in Sheep's Clothing because they're capable of sounding nice. In short... Affably Evil is a disqualifier, it just gets misused A LOT.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#106847: Jan 22nd 2018 at 7:30:52 PM

Reyntime: I never "anti" effortposted Lusamine, I just talked about her at length.

Yes to Sabretooth, by the way.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106848: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:06:18 PM

[tup] Creed

So, I just watched Satan's Little Helper and I felt the CM writeup for that film is lacking. So I rewrote it:

  • Satan's Little Helper: The Satan Man is a Serial Killer terrorizing a small Island town on All Hallows Eve. When Douglas Whooly, a young boy obsessed with Satan, finds him placing a body like a Halloween decoration, he takes the lad under his wing as his helper while leading him to believe that it's all fake. After almost forcing himself on Dougie's sister Jenna, the Satan Man takes him around town, killing a bunch of people along the way. including running over a baby carriage with a shopping cart and hanging an old woman from her second-story window. At some point, he slaughtered the local police station and set all the criminals free, causing more chaos. Eventually, he kills Dougie's father and kidnaps his mother, nearly suffocating her to death after poisoning a Halloween party's punch with bleach.. he tries to escape by first tricking Jenna's boyfriend into thinking he killed his own father (actually one of the Satan Man's prior victims), then tricking Jenna and her mom into killing the boyfriend. He then disguises himself as a cop and sneaks his way into the Whooly household, presumably to kill all the surviving members.

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#106849: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:14:20 PM

Easy [tup] to Sabretooth.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#106850: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:21:37 PM

[tup]Sabretooth.

Why so serious?

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