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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#106801: Jan 22nd 2018 at 4:14:45 AM

[tup] to Chaco, Andrew Colby, The Joker, and General William Krieger.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#106802: Jan 22nd 2018 at 4:22:41 AM

[tup] to Chaco [tup] to another Joker [tup] Colby and [tup] Krieger.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#106803: Jan 22nd 2018 at 4:49:03 AM

[tup]Kreiger.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106804: Jan 22nd 2018 at 4:59:38 AM

So uh somone made tweaks to Jordan Chase's entry from Dexter on the ymmv

  • Original: From Season 5 The Big Bad, Jordan Chase (born Eugene Greer), directs a group of men to capture women to torture and rape for months before disposing of them in barrels. All the while, Jordan looks on, occasionally holding his watch to the women's ears and whispering, "Tick tick tick. That's the sound of your life running out." Watching the video footage they took of what they did to the women was enough to make Debra root for the people who were tracking them down and killing them (despite it being her job to catch the killers); Dexter himself admits that they sicken him. The tapes themselves, which the viewers listen to, are pure horror. When Dexter and Lumen (the last victim who managed to get away) finally have Jordan at their mercy, he taunts Lumen about what he did to her, mocking her for being so "pathetic" and "helpless".

What that person turned it into:

  • Season 5's Big Bad, Jordan Chase (born Eugene Greer), has the front of a handsome motivational speaker but in truth is a depraved Control Freak who directs his friends to capture young women to torture and rape for months on end before disposing of them in barrels full of formaldehyde. All the while, Jordan looks on, occasionally holding his watch to the women's ears and whispering, "Tick tick tick. That's the sound of your life running " out," to taunt them. Watching the video footage they took of what they did to the women was enough to make Debra root for the people who were tracking them down and killing them (despite it being her job to catch the killers) and Dexter himself admits that they sicken him. The tapes themselves aren't shown but are heard, are pure horror. When Dexter and Lumen (the last victim who managed to get away) finally have Jordan at their mercy, he can't resist but get one last taunt out on Lumen about what he did to her, mocking her for being so "pathetic" and "helpless".

I actually think its not that bad as far as expansion goes.

Everyone fine if use this version over the old one as it looks much better.

edited 22nd Jan '18 5:20:32 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#106805: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:04:52 AM

I like the new version more.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106806: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:17:26 AM

[tup] Chaco, Colby, Joker, and Krieger.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106807: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:36:57 AM

The new version works. I'd just change "The tapes themselves aren't shown but are heard, are pure horror." to "While the tapes themselves aren't shown, what is heard from them is horrific." or something like that.

edited 22nd Jan '18 6:05:22 AM by ACW

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#106808: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:08:45 AM

[tup] Reed Richards, whom surprisingly turns out to be quite complex instead of a failed attempt to make a complex character before he went into 616 verse(and by that I mean they were aiming for a more complex and layered CM character in the first place, but failed on that level) despite what is said about him and Ultimate Marvel.

Just wondering, when are anti-effortposts permitted, by this I mean bringing a character up just to vote them down. I've seen it done a few times when a character is brought up with the structure of an effortpost, only to be concluded to not be a CM through the effortpost.

edited 22nd Jan '18 8:11:28 AM by xie323

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106809: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:13:53 AM

I...don't know the answer to that. I remember once I did this, which gave a summary but without a full effortpost.

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#106810: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:29:24 AM

[up][up] There's only three times I remember that being done.

Bondrewd for Made in Abyss, Lusamine from Pokemon Sun and Moon and Nui Harime from Kill la Kill

I think it's for complex characters who have weird redeeming qualities to their name even though they hit the heinous standard by a landslide. Notably when the tv/anime/game/movie has ended.

edited 22nd Jan '18 8:34:23 AM by ReynTime250

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#106812: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:33:32 AM

Lighty did Esdeath from. Akame Ga Kill like that, and I did the Black Fog from Electric Tale of Pikachu.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106813: Jan 22nd 2018 at 8:36:56 AM

Yeah for characters like Bondrewd and lusamine where there more than heinous enough by a long shot but are complex charcaters with unique redeeming qualities to the point they can't qualify but a discussion is a good thing in case somone brings up here later is the only time I'd suggest making an EP just to have somone be downovoted.

edited 22nd Jan '18 8:39:42 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#106814: Jan 22nd 2018 at 10:53:25 AM

Slight update: back from appointment by the horror candidates are gonna be a little late. This story is a chore to get through. Plus one of them is dropped because I'm not 100% on the chances of a Wendigo type villain counting.

edited 22nd Jan '18 10:55:15 AM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106816: Jan 22nd 2018 at 12:04:35 PM

Whoops. Checks the date and This isn't 2 weeks old yet. Taking it out.

edited 22nd Jan '18 2:28:41 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106817: Jan 22nd 2018 at 2:11:44 PM

Yea on Colby

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106818: Jan 22nd 2018 at 2:24:41 PM

Image suggestion

Goku Black/Zamasu stabs Vegeta from Dragon Ball Super

Pennywise kills eddie from It (2017)

Nibru entity eating people from Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated

[down]Whoops my bad. I Googled I and it said that.

edited 22nd Jan '18 2:43:53 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106819: Jan 22nd 2018 at 2:41:05 PM

Not much liking either of them. Pennywise doesn't kill Eddie, by the way. That's right before the "I was real enough for Georgie" part.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106820: Jan 22nd 2018 at 3:02:06 PM

I like the one with the Entity. If you can find the one where "At one point, it stops mid swallow to look at the Gang, and there's people hanging limply from its jaws", that'd be even better.

BTW, here's Kreiger's writeup, from the Drafts page. Could use some trimming:

  • Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy: Once a successful high-ranking military officer and the leader of Mindgate, William Kreiger is the living epitome of megalomania. Having become obsessed with the wonders of psionic abilities, he seeked to unlock the ultimate power so he could become a god on earth, and this obsession led to him being kicked out of the military. Calling himself The General, he gathers Psi-Elite from all around the world and forms The Movement, a group dedicated on fusing two ancient artifacts, Luna One and the Monolith, so they could share its power and rule over the "mundanes", despite him not being a psion himself. In reality, The General is manipulating them to further his own plans, using Nick Scryer to kill each one of his lieutenants so he can have the power for himself. Wanting to make The Movement more stronger, he captures civilians and enemy soldiers and tasks his master of mind control, Jov Leonov, with lobotomizing and transforming them into "meat puppets" obedient to The Movement. The General introduces himself to the "new recruits" of The Movement by giving them the choice to "serve or die", killing one of them when Scryer interrupts his speech. Upon getting hold of Luna One, he orders his master of pyrokinesis, Marlena Kessler, to fuse the object with the Monolith by using a machine that could amplify her powers, not caring if it was going into overload, leaving her to die and taking the Monolith with him. To complete the process of powering the Monolith, The General has his right-hand man, a master of telekinesis named Edgar Barrett, re-align the moon, and then kills him in cold-blood because "true power is not meant to be shared". Using the Monolith, he acquires the power he so desperately wanted, gloating on how he is now a Psi-Elite with the power of a god. A brutal example of what the need for power does to a sane person, The General was an unfeeling, cruel man who in the end could only care about himself.

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#106821: Jan 22nd 2018 at 3:04:13 PM

[tup] The Evil Entity image, [tdown] the other two.

edited 22nd Jan '18 3:04:24 PM by MenInGreyToBlak

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#106822: Jan 22nd 2018 at 3:24:05 PM

[up][up] Also, right off the bat, it's got a chainhole at the start and yes, trimming is hugely required there.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106823: Jan 22nd 2018 at 3:26:12 PM

Yeah, his name should probably just be potholed to Big Bad or something like that. I'm not even worried about potholes for now though.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#106824: Jan 22nd 2018 at 3:30:53 PM

Okay, I (or anyone else) can rework the entry and we'll go from there.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#106825: Jan 22nd 2018 at 4:08:02 PM

I Like the Evil Entity image. Not so sure about the other two

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

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