During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Manderville, Viera and Pierre.
Long might be one Super Sentai's biggest Hate Sink characters.
I will also wish Ravok the best. The Ultimate Universe produced some real drek. And I concur that having Doom fight the Maker might be interesting, if only to give Doom some appreciation for the real Mr Fantastic.
Let's not list Goku Black as an example of Sean Schemmel voicing another CM yet. For all we know Funimation might give Zamasu a redeeming quality.
Unlikely? Yes. But let's not count our Piccolos before they hatch.
Sean probably has other CM keepers out there. It's funny, Goku is the archetypical anime hero, and his English dubber has voiced some truly vile fiends. Of course, Mark Hamill WAS my buddy Luke, and he's one of the most prolific CM actors we have.
Yea to Viera and Pierre.
Anyways, got a candidate from Boom! Studios' Dawn of the Planet of the Apes six-part comic series.
The comics take place years before the events of the film, shown from the perspectives of Caesar and Koba as they strive for unity in the growing ape colony, and Malcolm as he tries to protect his son and (dying) wife, Rita.
And as the comic shows, Koba wasn't the first ape who tried to overthrow Caesar.
Who Is He?
Pope is a large, aggressive chimpanzee in Caesar's ape colony who serves as a leader of the ape soldiers. A former lab ape like Koba, Pope is known for his ruthless, but efficient, methods of leadership among his troops. However, Pope becomes disillusioned with Caesar, believing that he only wants to make "ape world same as human world", and thus schemes to take power for himself.
What Does He Do?
Sent to investigate San Francisco by Caesar, Pope and his comrades, Fifer and Cora, search a house and come across two humans. When one of them pulls a gun on them, Pope attacks him from behind and mauls him to death. When the other human flees, Pope has the other reluctant apes hunt her down and kill her as well.
Later arriving at a zoo, Pope and his patrol have a run-in with a clan of un-evolved apes. Forced to flee, Pope becomes obsessed with making these apes "his apes". Returning and challenging their alpha to a one-on-one brawl, Pope instead stabs the alpha with the hidden end of a spear, killing him. He promptly has the rest of the un-evolved apes rounded up with the intention of breaking them and molding them into soldiers. Confronted on his treatment of fellow apes, Pope replies that the un-evolved apes are not true apes, simply "dumb animals".
From there, Pope has the captured apes go through brutal training, intending to use them to wage war against Caesar's colony and take power. At one point, he violently throttles one chimp for lightly touching him. Fifer and Cora, realizing how dangerous Pope is, attempt to flee and warn Caesar, but are attacked by Pope's troops. A wounded Fifer manages to escape, but Cora is captured and tortured for information. When she refuses to answer, Pope has Cora fed to a captive polar bear.
Learning of more humans in the city, Pope schemes to first enslave the human community, then Caesar's colony. From there, Pope has dozens of humans and apes alike abducted and caged in the zoo, with the apes being molded into violent soldier fodder for his upcoming war. However, as Pope prepares to rally his army to go to war, Koba and his troop arrives to put an end to Pope's madness. Pope taunts Koba for simply being Caesar's tool, claiming that he is "making apes strong". Koba accuses Pope of enslaving his fellow apes, to which Pope once again denounces his ape slaves as "not apes, simply stupid animals".
This pisses Koba off, as that is what humans used to call him, and a battle commences between Pope's army and Koba's band. Koba beats Pope in a fight, but Pope taunts him, as "ape not kill ape". The distraction allows one of Pope's gorillas to attack Koba from behind, wounding him. Pope proceeds to violently strangle Koba, sneering that Caesar will soon be next.
However, one of Pope's slaves, a chimp who had been put on a leash as a demonstration of their inferiority, breaks free and savagely attacks Pope, injuring him. Wounded, Pope immediately starts begging for mercy, but Koba swiftly ends his life with a spear to the throat.
Mitigating factors?
None that hold up. He is mentioned to have been a lab ape like Koba, and has the scars to show for it, but just like Koba, his actions trump any excuses. Also like Koba, he claims to be helping apes by "making them strong", but this also rings hollow with the way he callously abuses them and treats the un-evolved apes like slaves.
For the heinous standard...I think he makes it. He might not succeed in his goals like Koba did, but his endgame was the same, if not worse. He's also more brutal towards his ape army than Koba was, beating and torturing them and putting them in cages along with the humans, along with that whole "execution via polar bear".
Final Verdict?
I think he may count.
Thoughts?
edited 18th Jan '18 1:06:39 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?Typical, your forced to miss a couple of days and so many things happen (I mean seriously, not one, not two, but three Christopher Lee candidates overnight? Still I have say old hanging Judge Jeffery's somehow feels a bit fitting).
Still to catch up I'll give a
to Khan, the Demon Lord, Judge Jeffries, Scratchel, Jack Ketch, Father Michael Rayner, Count Regula, Anatole, Romero, Charles Chazen, Colonel R.C. Whitley, Captain Kubal, Felix Manderville, Madame Viera, Pierre Amaund, and Pope.
![]()
I like it.
Oh yeah speaking of Devilman. It's the 19th. So Devil may cry .. .. I mean Devilman Crybaby 's discussion date is on.
edited 18th Jan '18 2:45:34 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."![]()
![]()
I like.
Speaking of Devil Man I know Lightysnake is going to discuss Crybaby so I won't go into that discussion but I wonder if the candidates from Mao Dante can go to the Devil Man Monster page as it seems that God from Mao Dante and from Devilman is the same entity?
to Viera, Pierre, and Pope.
edited 18th Jan '18 2:45:24 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffYeah. Actual Devilman God whoose probably up there with SMT YHVH as far as God Is Evil goes never makes an appearances in person. Otherwise he'd count Easily.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."As I've said before,
Asav image. Just... a reminder.
How about this image for William Carver?
Idk, been wondering that myself.
edited 18th Jan '18 3:16:05 PM by MenInGreyToBlak

Interestingly, it seems the TV version of Ralph DOES count.