TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#106503: Jan 17th 2018 at 7:52:00 PM

[up][up][up] Given he starts it all... I don't think there's an issue.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#106505: Jan 17th 2018 at 8:10:28 PM

[up][up] Gotcha.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106507: Jan 17th 2018 at 8:58:54 PM

Alright, I'll...get to the second Genocyber eventually, don't worry. Yes to Reid and the Thing baddie. Lemme get up a villain with sliiiightly better taste right now.

What's the Work?

Attack on Titan is...okay, you know this. Except we're here to talk about the 2015 live action films. The plot is largely the same: Humanity has been rendered all but extinct thanks to the man eating Titans who roam the world, kept alive by three massively walled sections. Then one day...a titan larger than any other appears and destroys the Gates. Eren Jaeger experiences terror as the Titans attack, killing countless innocents with the survivors escaping to the next walls....Eren is consumed with hatred for the Titans and vows to destroy them, joining the military to become a soldier and eventually exterminate them.

Now, in the film, things proceed a little differently. Eren's closest friend, Mikasa, vanishes and he finds her years later as part of the military in the squad of elite, film-only character, Captain Shikishima, humanity's strongest warrior...who takes the place of Levi Rivaille, said strongest soldier in the manga...so, it turns out? There's a lot our heroes don't know about the world....the titans turn out to have very human origins. In the manga? The Colossal Titan is one of three known as the Warrior Trio and all three are FAR from complete monsters, being child soldiers who have become guilt-ridden wrecks over their actions and all of whom genuinely care for their own families and friends, while being deeply traumatized over their actions...but in the FILM?

Who is the Colossal Titan?

Captain Kubal is a ruthless member of the military. A hard man who believes that attempting to reclaim the world is useless. Now, spoilers out of the way: the Titans, a century ago, were the result of a serum that went wrong and spread like a virus, mutating a lot of people into titans. The walls were erected to save the remainder of humanity, with the top officials more or less living like kings. A brilliant scientist, Grisha Jaeger, Eren's father, researched the Titan serum, hoping to find a way to help humanity. Kubal learned of his research and destroyed it, executing Grisha and his wife Carla...but before he died, Grisha injected Eren with the Titan serum...as well as his elder son, Shikishima. Kubal, however? Took some for himself....the titan serum also grants immortality, with the ability to turn into a titan.

Now, the military began to favor expansion, genuinely deciding that reclaiming the world under the survey corps was the best plan. Kubal, realizing this could mean the loss of his privileges and status? Decided to unify humanity through fear. Becoming the Colossal Titan, Kubal destroyed the gates and let the Titans savage humanity. Ten years passed, with many dead from the titan attack and many, many people dying in poverty and starvation due to stretched resources. Now, the Survey Corps, under Shikishima, proposed scouting ahead to the breach in the first wall. The plan? Scout the area, map it all out, find a way to seal the breach and wipe out the titans within the walls, reclaiming them and opening a way forward. Kubal pretends to support it, but secretly tries to sabotage the mission to get everyone in the Survey Corps killed by Titans. Casualties are, um...high.

Disaster is averted when Eren unlocks his Titan powers and fights back....Realizing he's a threat? Kubal has him arrested and tries to execute Eren as well as his friend swhen they try to interfere. Now Shikishima interferes and approaches Eren and reveals everything to him. Issue is Shikishima is not really a good guy. In fact...he plans his own coup to seize power, making himself the villain. He and the good guys end up fighting, the Survey Corps having a bomb with them to seal the breach in the walls. Eren fights his brother, Titan to Titan and wins...only for Kubal to show up, gloating about everything, revealing he's a Titan and changing into the Colossal at the walls. In the ensuing battle, many soldiers are killed by Kubal until Shikishima transforms again, takes the bomb and runs at Kubal, telling his brother he's going to give him his dream: Shikishima blows himself up with the bomb to also blow up the Colossal Titan's head, killing Kubal withthe breach in the Wall sealed, humanity given a way forward.

Mitigating Qualities?

Kubal presents as a righteous, honorable, if overzealous soldier worried for the safety of humanity who can't trust a threat like Eren as a Titan...these are lies. Kubal is a traitor, who fears the loss of his own status and privilege. He murders Eren's father for supposedly 'dangerous' Titan research, but uses it to his own ends. He cares nothing for the people or his soldier and manipulates countless deaths as a result. So...no, not a hint of redeeming qualities around Kubal in the end.

Heinous standard?

Shikishima's a dick with designs to overthrow the government, but Kubal? Kubal wipes out a not inconsiderate chunk of humanity quite willingly, sabotages a mission to get all the soldiers killed and condemns countless innocents to die of starvation and poverty so he can live the high life.

Conclusion?

I'd go with easy keep myself.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#106513: Jan 17th 2018 at 10:49:52 PM

@Clover: No, Zen-Oh has very little impact on the heinous standard. He is so far beyond any of our listed characters that he doesn't even come close. Not to mention his sheer lack of personal villainy, which every one of our listed keepers do WAY worse than him.

[tup] The Thing baddie and the Attack on Titan baddie.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106514: Jan 18th 2018 at 12:34:46 AM

Anyways, my Price candidate...

What's the setting?

House of 1000 Dolls is... a surprisingly dull movie focusing on kidnapping and forced prostitution at the hands of the titular House of Dolls, an international gang that take pretty white women all across the world. The leads, the Armstrong couple comprised of Stephen and Mary, are drawn to Tangiers where the House is held, with their friend Fernando trying to find his girlfriend who went missing... turning up dead a few days later. Desperate to find out more about the case, Stephen digs deeper into the case and finds Price's character, a traveling magician named Felix Manderville, may have something to do with the disappearance...

Who is Manderville? What has he done?

The Great Manderville is an traveling illusionist played with veritable culture and class by Price, going around country to country with his seemingly-telepathic wife Rebecca. Manderville has a dark secret, of course... he's the procurer for the House of Dolls. His MO? Travel the world and bedazzle his potential victims with his magic tricks, before making them disappear — and taking them right to the House of Dolls to live the rest of their lives as sex slaves in the House of Dolls to service the depraved needs of the wealthy customers that peruse the House's services. Manderville has a long, long line of victims behind him, with his most recent victim — Fernando's girlfriend — waking up in his clutches and screaming in terror as she realizes what's happened to her. When a man who's been stalking Manderville for months ambushes him and Rebecca in an alleyway, intent on revenge for Manderville previously kidnapping his own wife to be kept in the House, Manderville just has him taken from behind and his throat fatally cut by one of the House's goons.

Fernando's persistence in the case leads the House's cold-hearted, vicious brothel keeper, Madame Viera, to order him murdered, which brings heat down onto them as Stephen tries to investigate himself. Realizing he needs to be put down as a threat to make his own eventual escape and retirement from the syndicate easier, Manderville chooses Mary as his victim during the show and lures Stephen to his dressing room, where he convinces Stephen to let him accompany him in his search through Tangiers for answers about Fernando's murder. Manderville uses this as opportunity to sic his goons on him, and on his order they murder a photographer with potential information before trying to kill Stephen himself. Eventually, the House's upper circle grows tired of Stephen's snooping and have Mary captured.

Manderville, with plenty of money now from his years as a procurer for the House, plans to use his money to disappear after one final show and live out the rest of his days free from prosecution from either law or the syndicate who may not want him to leave their services to easily... however, Manderville? Finds out Rebecca not only holds nominal authority over the House as the "Queen of Hearts," but is also planning to help Mary escape. With every indication he plans to dispose of her to make his own getaway easier, Manderville returns to the house only to find the slaves revolting and the police barging into the house. Manderville tries to flee and personally attempts to gun down Stephen when he stops him, making a mad dash for an exit... only to run straight off a balcony Slagar-style in his blind attempt to escape, sending him tumbling to his death in the main hall of the House.

Any mitigating factors?

For the man himself? None that hold up. Manderville makes a very, very solid guise of being a civil, educated gentlemen who plays with children and entertains his audience with a seemingly-earnest smile on his face, but when the chips are down... Manderville is a slimy, self-concerned coward who holds utterly no remorse for condemning countless women to sex trafficking and prostitution, with his only eventual concern being how to save his own skin and blow the eyes of the law on him. Manderville's relationship with his wife Rebecca seems complicated at first, with Rebecca very clearly caring about him and even breaking into broken tears over his dead body, but Manderville himself doesn't seem to reciprocate the love. It's often brought up Manderville always thinks of himself before her (Manderville makes a quip that "I can always hear her thinking — especially when she's thinking about me!" and has to be reminded that when he "disappears," he's potentially leaving Rebecca back to her fate as a former slave in the House herself). Ultimately, every implication at the end points to Rebecca being just as disposable to him as anyone else. Manderville's civility is hollow and I'm not convinced he holds any true humane relationships to anyone.

For heinousness? Manderville's actions are half of what drives the movie with the other half falling to either general House authority with a lot of it coming from Madame Viera herself (who is a cold, cold bitch who tortures and abuses the women herself and may even be worth a post herself, with my only real concern with her being that it's a bit vague as to who's ordering what) but... Manderville? Is just a procurer for the House. He has a vague semblance of authority over its goons, but he himself is stated to be disposable to the overall operation and easily replaced even though he denies it. Even barring this out? Manderville still facilitates the kidnapping of countless young women to be made sex slaves with the complete knowledge of the nasty details this occurs with willingness to have any and all loose ends murdered just as eagerly as Viera does. I have to say, Price's role here? Is a very uniquely depraved niche as well for him.

Conclusion?

Why get for the Price of one you can get for the Price of two? Keeper.

Thoughts?

edited 20th Jan '18 10:26:59 PM by Scraggle

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106515: Jan 18th 2018 at 12:51:22 AM

[tup] to Kubal,Manderville and Dr. Reid

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106516: Jan 18th 2018 at 1:17:20 AM

[tup]Dr Reid, Kubal and Manderville

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#106517: Jan 18th 2018 at 1:37:30 AM

[tup] Manderville

edited 18th Jan '18 1:37:43 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106518: Jan 18th 2018 at 2:56:46 AM

[tup] Reid; Kubal; hesitant [tup] Manderville.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#106520: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:07:17 AM

A late 'Yes' to Lecoque (LeCock as I like to call him), and same to Reid, Whitley, Kubal, and our latest Price baddie. Guy sure loved his villains. One of my favorite fun facts about him: His favorite role (Or at least one of them) according to the man himself? Ratigan. Man had excellent tastes. [lol]

Alrighty, here's my write-ups barring the Ultraverse ones. I'll save those for once all have been discussed and the like just to make sure we're all in agreement.

On that note, I'll be a lot less active in the thread for the next few days, maybe longer, simply because I'mma be working on a candidate Lighty reminded me of whose arc is gonna take REEEEAAAAAAL long to view all the way through....which is Ultimate Reed Richards/the Maker. Don't worry though, I'm sure it won't be TOO terribly long—

  • Ultimate Reed Richards appears in 173 issues

HAHAHA, LOOKS LIKE I'LL SEE YOU GUYS IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS, SOMEBODY STOP ME

  • 17-sai: Miyamoto is a vicious, brutal thug of a teenager who uses his ties to the Yakuza to get away with any violent impulse that he wishes. Though starting out simply assaulting and nearly killing people for their cash or just for fun, Miyamoto soon escalates his depravity until the point that he kidnaps the teenage girl Sachiko and holds her hostage in his house for 12 days. Regularly raping and beating the girl while keeping her starved and dehydrated, Miyamoto allows other gangs to rape the girl one exchange for their loyalty, and later sets parts of Sachiko's body aflame when she tries to escape. After beating one of his friends to death for being clumsy, Miyamoto tries to murder Sachiko and her twin sister with a baseball bat to eliminate all evidence of his crimes, and, even when caught, Miyamoto expresses zero remorse for his crimes, cracking a smug grin upon learning Sachiko has recovered from his torment simply because he now cannot receive the death penalty.

  • Anti Magic Academy The35th Test Platoon: Haunted is a monstrous psychopath obsessed with spreading despair to all around him, and serves as the Arch-Enemy of numerous characters due to his evil. Introduced butchering and sacrificing over fifty people to summon a demon and have it slaughter innocents, Haunted later invades one of the Inquisition's schools and murders his way through dozens of trainee students. In his quest to cause despair to everyone he sees fit, Haunted murders one of his partners in the arms of her sister, reunites a lost girl with her mother only to decapitate the girl while her mother watches, and forces Mari to serve him by using numerous orphans as hostages, then revealing he killed the children long ago. In his grandest scheme of despair yet, primarily targeting his self-proclaimed greatest foe Takeru, Haunted turns the boy's sister into a killing machine, knowing Takeru will either have to kill her or watch her slaughter humanity, and occupies his time by wiping out an entire town of innocents. In the end, Haunted is beaten after revealing he has killed close to 13,000 people over the years, and uses his final moments in an attempt to kill Takeru to snuff out the "beacon of hope" that the world sees him as. A truly depraved lunatic who horrified and repulsed even his own organization and partners—many whom he kills at the drop of a hat—Haunted stands out even in this dark world as a twisted individual.

  • Undefeated Bahamut Chronicle: Hayes is a former royal of the Old Empire obsessed with nothing less than the annihilation of the New Kingdom and the return of the Empire's tyrannical ways. Kickstarting her war against the New Kingdom by selling weapons and information to their enemies, Hayes makes her first formal move by leading an assault on one of the Kingdom's training academies, killing anyone in her way. Forcing Lux to assist her in showing her the way to an ancient ruin by infecting the boy's friend Phi with a demonic infection, Hayes goes back on her word and orders a corrupted Phi to slaughter Lux and her other friends, planning to cure the girl only after her friends are dead so as to drive her to killing herself. In her most despicable move, Hayes uses the colossal Gigas to lead a full-scale invasion of the New Kingdom, ordering the entire city and its countless inhabitants be wiped out to pave the way for her new coming order where she reigns supreme once more.

edited 18th Jan '18 9:13:18 AM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106521: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:10:28 AM

[up]Yes. Please thank you for taking this ardious and unenviable task like having to read stuff like Ultimatum. We wish you luck.He's one of the worst villains in the entire Marvel universe with zero redeeming qualities, so its a bit weird he's not listed.

edited 18th Jan '18 9:16:29 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106522: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:18:41 AM

Take care for your time Ravok. I felt that candidate will be a huge project like Scragg's writeup with TAO

Also, I found this unapproved entry at Soul Hunters YMMV page:

  • Complete Monster: Ryogaku injects the heroes with a virus in order to make them surrender. By their next fight, he has a monster experiment try to kill Nataku's father with his mother inside its belly in order to prevent attacks. The monster is actually his own son, Bagen, who he made into a mindless monster by falsely assuring that Bagen would be made stronger. Ryogaku shows no concern when Bagen’s dying.

Maybe he could count but I'm not sure if anyone familiar with this manga (Maybe I could re read it or not)

edited 18th Jan '18 9:19:22 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106523: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:19:50 AM

[up][up] Actually, IIRC, Ultimate Reed WAS listed, but then it was decided he got a disqualifying quality or something, which then apparently was a sham.

Also, good gravy. Even assuming 5 minutes/issue, that's still 14+ hours.

[up] Actually, it's at Anime And Manga K To Z. It's a bit sparse though. EDIT: Found it (looks like it was before we started doing effortposts).

edited 18th Jan '18 9:22:10 AM by ACW

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106524: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:22:54 AM

[up] Ah alright....But yea. It's a bit sparse. Maybe someone who knew the work could rewrite it or not but eh....[nja]

EDIT: Aaaand Ninja'd [nja]

edited 18th Jan '18 9:25:39 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#106525: Jan 18th 2018 at 9:32:21 AM

[up][up] Correct. He was listed for his first few major crimes, then got redeemed....then revealed he was faking, as part of a grander plan. He's been in issues as recent as October 2017, but he does seem to be out of commission for now, so....yeah.

I'll be properly effortposting him when I finish (Eventually), or course, as I refuse to spend so much time on a candidate to do nothing but write him up, so everyone can look forward to THAT.

As an aside, I...think Ultimate!Reed is one of the VERY few candidates who features as a hero for a LONG time before turning evil and becoming a CM candidate. Most of the time, when a CM was once a superhero, it's in flashbacks or his backstory. Here, Reed literally is a superhero for 40+ issues before he turns evil, which was a pretty big surprise from what I an tell. That's gotta be some kind of record....like, "Most time a CM candidate spent as a legitimate superhero before performing a Face–Heel Turn, all in present time of a story."

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

Total posts: 326,048
Top