During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ehhh...sorry, newbie at this. Is there a way to search this thread? Has this thread discussed Euron Greyjoy from Song of Ice and Fire (the books, not Game of Thrones, where he's pretty generic)? I was surprised to find he wasn't on the Complete Monster list over there.
His most disgusting deeds were witnessed in a preview chapter for Winds of Winter, which hasn't been released, which might explain why he isn't there. Then again, all of that behavior was heavily hinted at in Feast for Crows.
Dr Sadism.
We went from no Lee Keepers to 3.
It's the end of an era.
To pilfer a line from my friend Luke, perhaps it's time for the Complete Monster Cleanup Thread... to end.
Oh, wait, I've Dragon Ball Fighterz reserved...
Scratch what I said prior, I wanna talk about that VIDEO GAME when the time comes.
for Count Regula. Christopher Lee playing a Count -ula who exsanguinates people, I wonder where they got that idea.
(Yeah, it's supposedly based on Poe, but still.)
Re: searching, my favorite method is to type "Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster" (with the quotation marks), followed by the name of the candidate and/or work, that way you only get results from this thread.
edited 16th Jan '18 11:15:29 AM by LordXavius
Regula
Yeah Fernando seems like he could count in the future but for the moment he doesn’t meet the heinous standard so
To him
Hey guys I found this quote on the Sadist page and I think can go to the CM quotes page. Well here it is
What do you guys think?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffOk after watching an episode of Ben 10 Alien Force, I am appealing Vilgax. Why? He actually does something selfless and heroic and it is portrayed in a positive light. In the episode Ghost Town, after Zs Skayr has taken over Vilgaxia's population and turned them into an army of Ectonurite slaves, Vilgax proceeds to ask Ben, Gwen and Kevin for help. When they arrive, they narrowly avoid being discovered by a patrol. However, a screeching noise is heard, and when Gwen asks what it is, Vilgax informs them it is a child crying, and WITHOUT HESITATION, completely gives away their position to save the child. While Ben, and the audience, think that Vilgax is lying, all three are stunned to actually see Vilgax actually protect a child. Gwen outright says he has a conscience. Now the question here is first of all, whether or not he is being pragmatic, but the episode shows that the child had no idea Vilgax was back on planet, so an attempt to play it as Pragmatic Villany is out of the question. Secondly, given this is a very blatant Pet the Dog moment for him, does it override the mitigating factors test? Thirdly, does this quash his later action in Alien Force, and Omniverse? So should Vilgax be dismissed?
In omniverse which iv watched, he tried to destroy his universe which would have included his people. A Pet the Dog moment is nullified when a bad guy tries to kill said person they saved or were nice to or whatever.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."The guy who effortposted Vilgax actually mentioned that part: it became a moot point after Vilgax tried to (if memory serves), destroy almost every universe in existence including his own which would have killed his people, the child included. Ultimately, that redeeming quality got rubbed out as the series went on.
![]()
edited 16th Jan '18 4:02:35 PM by FriedWarthog
![]()
![]()
![]()
Works for me.
![]()
![]()
That moment was specifically brought up in his EP. It was determined to not be mitigating due to his omnicidal actions later on, actions that would lead to the death of the child he saved. I think there was also something about his prime motivation being to make himself look good or something. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but his Pet the Dog moment has been factored in.
edited 16th Jan '18 4:02:13 PM by TommyFresh
Speaking of people invalidating Pet the Dogs... I wanted to revisit an old EP of mine. Well, this is independent of the proposal I mentioned earlier, but this is something that occasionally crossed my mind.
Long ago, I did an effortpost
of the anime version of Zeno from Zatch Bell!. Ultimately, we concluded he was a 99% monster because of his relationship with Dufort. But there's a minor but potentially influential thing I glossed over. At the series finale of the anime, Zeno destroys the control to Faudo, a powerful humanoid WMD, to let it destroy the world, Zatch's friends, and Humanity as a whole. Purely out of spite to his twin brother, Zatch. And the targets included his partner Dufort. Does anyone think that demonstrates that Zeno's grudge towards Zatch matters far more to him?
edited 16th Jan '18 4:24:43 PM by erazor0707

Alright, I changed Al-Zahar's a bit.