During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
- A few issues:
- For Vertex it should be : a vicious Spiderbot. Hrs a different species from the other characters, so that should be specified.
- Change the pothole in Annihilus from Arc Villain to Starter Villain as he's only around for the first two epsiodes, so that would be more apropaite.
edited 16th Jan '18 4:40:09 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
for the Christopher Lee movie villains. So my favorite actor had a few candidates after all.
(For some trivia, the Bloody Assizes are also the background for the classic pirate film Captain Blood.)
edited 16th Jan '18 5:29:58 AM by LordXavius
I had a discussion with another troper about the Mr. Robot CM's, and he recommended me to do an EP on another villain in the show. At first, I personally didn't want to do it, because I found his backstory way to tragic. After thinking about it though, I was convinced.
What is the Work
Mr. Robot. You guys should know the drill by now.
Who is our villain? What does he do?
Fernando Vera is a ruthless gangster and drug dealer who is the ex-boyfriend of Shayla Nico, one of Elliot's friends and probably his most loyal and trusted one (though still not his best friend... kind of...).
Despite being Shayla's boyfriend, he is quite aggressive to her. He once asked her if she wanted to go on a date, but not in the type of way a boyfriend should... Shayla isn't in the mood to go on a date, so his gang takes her inside of a car. Elliot manages to see this and instantly goes and checks inside of her apartment. He doesn't see Shayla, but instead he sees Vera on her bed. This obviously confuses Elliot, and Elliot asks where Shayla is. He answers where she is, and makes a speech about how he thinks that Elliot is similar to how he once was when he was younger. Once Vera walks away, Elliot investigates the apartment, and finds Shayla where Vera said that she was. Elliot is terrified, seeing one of his closest friends in a near dead state. Vera had viciously drugged and raped Shayla multiple times, but she didn't want to escape from him, since not only would he eventually find out where she escaped and possibly make things even worse, but also because Vera's drug dealing brings in quite alot of money. She asks Elliot if he can stay in their apartment overnight, which he says yes to.
Elliot, angry at Vera for raping Shayla, tips the police about Vera and his gang. He finds out about Vera's twitter account, where he frequently boasts about sadistically beating and raping Shayla. The tip goes through, with Vera and his gang getting arrested. However, Vera is convinced that Elliot is the one behind the arrest, and blackmails Elliot into hacking the prison so that he can escape from prison. Vera and his gang threaten to hurt Shayla if Elliot doesn't help. Elliot helps them, and the escape is a success. However, they lied to Elliot, and Vera had already killed Shayla before he even tried getting them out of the prison.
Here's the thing though, him raping Shayla is off-screen villainy, but it's EXTREMELY explictly shown. So that shouldn't be a disqualifying factor, right?
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors?
Yes. When he was younger, he apparently hated himself and was in a deep depression. This was why I originally didn't want to EP him. After thinking over it for a while though, it doesn't feel like it justifies his actions after everything he has done. The biggest reason for this is because, as a grown up, he sees him hating himself as a power rather than as a weakness, since apparently he "knows what hate truly means". He says this: "People walk around, act like they know what hate means. Nah. No one does, until you truly hate yourself. I mean truly hate yourself. THAT'S power.".
As for being affable... yes, he is talkative the second time he meets with Elliot. Still doesn't justify that he raped Shayla and later makes Elliot feel guilty for it despite him not participating in it at all. Also, a big part of why he is affable is because he sees himself as a huge threat, most personal enemy, and the biggest nemesis of Elliot.
I recall that Sam Esmail recently stated that season 4 will focus a bit more on how Vera killed Shayla, so either that may make him more heinous or the opposite. Who knows.
Heinousness
Him successfully raping someone still holds up despite him doing it in season 1 and we're almost in season 4. The only character to rape someone other than Vera is an unnamed mook neo-nazi that tries raping Elliot. But he only has like a couple of seconds of screen time since Leon kills him as fast as possible.
Conclusion
You'll get to decide.
edited 16th Jan '18 7:34:51 AM by MenInGreyToBlak
I brought up Fernando Vera a while back (this is the third time this has happened now with a villain I proposed) and most everyone at the time said he didn't stand out all that much, even in terms of regular villainy.
If he shows up again in Season 4, sure. But right now I'm not really feeling it.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Freudian Excuse aside, it's debatable if he's heinous enough. I'd say wait and see until season 4.
Who were the other two?
edited 16th Jan '18 7:36:15 AM by ACW
@MeInGrayBlack: Yes, but he only rapes one person (admittedly a person I really liked, and I do not like how she died at all) and is only responsible for two people dying.
@ACW: That villain from that crappy Java Heat movie and Mars.
Oh, I looked it up. His name's Malik.
edited 16th Jan '18 7:41:22 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.miraculous: I saw those (I think Spider Tank actually works better); I'll take care of them (and might as well tweak Achille's) shortly.
Fernando. He seems to be another character who crosses the Moral Event Horizon but doesn't enter CM territory.
I'm not familiar with Mr. Robot but sorry to say this I have to say
to Fernando....IMO despite One Rape....I dont feel that he's heinous enough unless if the rape is kind of used as the main conflict like Andy Evan's case or pretty brutal like Le Tenia or Buppa (Like I said, I know that the latter doesn't qualify and does have buttload of crimes on his belt other than that.....*gulp*....One Rape but yeah)
edited 16th Jan '18 8:16:15 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Alright, I've made those changes, and added Achille. Here's Achille's:
- Maximo: Ghosts to Glory & Maximo vs. Army of Zin: Evil King Achille was originally King Maximo's trusted advisor, but betrayed him in his quest of power. He usurps the throne and forces Maximo's betrothed Sophia to marry him, and raises the dead for his army. He then traps human souls in collectors that are transmitted to him. When Maximo returns, Achille promptly kills him. He also has a general tortured to death for failure and murders the witch Sephonie. Returning as a ghost under the guise of Lord Bane, he takes over the titular army of murderous robots, powers them with stolen souls from the Underworld and sends them all over the land where they target lots of innocent bystanders-over 80 in all. The Zin later attempt to destroy a village and invade the land of Hawkmoor. Lord Bane forces the gearmaster Tinker to create a more powerful model of Zin, then plots to have her killed by her own creations. Stopped by Maximo as he was about to kill the Baron Hawkmoor and his wife, Achille murders Tinker in a last act of cruelty.
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Not even CLOSE.
Haggard is the epitome of a Tragic Villain and his deeds are also far from enough.
Haggard is one of the clearest non-keepers there is.
Now, then...a film with one of my all time favorite titles and the third Christopher Lee complete monster?
What's the Work?
The Blood Demon, a 1967 West German horror film, better known by the best English name of all time: The Torture Chamber of Dr. Sadism...
The evil Count Regula (who is not actually a doctor and whose name is not actually "sadism") is tried in the 18th century for witchcraft, torture, murder and Satanism. condemned, the Count swears bloody revenge on those who brought him to his end, especially the judge. Placed in an iron mask, the Count is drawn, quartered and beheaded for his crimes....forty years on, Lilian von Brabant, a young baroness and her lawyer Roger Mont Elise receive an invitation to Blood Castle, the Baron's old holdings, deep in the Sander Valley where the baroness awaits a large inheritance. Roger, an orphan who sees a chance to explore his roots there. They depart with the maid Babette and meet a monk named Fabian who guides them to the castle...where they learn the terrifying legend of the Count and the secrets within...
Who is Count Regula and What's he Done?
Regula is a twisted aristocrat and satanist Warlock who uncovered the secret of immortality. With his servant Anatole, Regula would kill his enemies, leaving their corpses strewn throughout the forest in a ghastly reminder of the punishment for screwing with him, which we see as the coach draws to Blood Castle.
Now, for most of the film? Regula is dead. However, before his death, he left instructions with Anatole: Recover and preserve his body and revive him on a specific Good Friday...also, the judge who sentenced him? Murder him and his entire family and all his relatives. Only one escaped the purge and later hid the newborn Roger before Anatole got them, too. As for his crimes? Regula realized the pure blood of young virgins had potency. Finding it especially potent in them when they struggled for life, Regula abducted the women and tortured them to death to extract their blood, which we see in the remnants of the torture chamber....but a final woman escaped him and exposed him to the authorities. Regula managed to drink half of the unfinished elixir, enough to grant him some life when he returned, which he intends to use to complete the ritual and gain immortality.
Now, Anatole terrorizes the heroes for a while until he abducts the Baroness...see, she's a descendant of the 13th maiden...the woman who escaped the Count, and Regula wants her to be his final maiden. Revived from the dead, Regula smugly informs them what'll happen, taking Lilian, planning on extracting her blood while he plans to give Roger an 'agonizing' death...placing him in a pit with a swinging, bladed pendulum going down...Babette and Fabian, however, help Roger as Regula prepares to draw Lilian's blood. Having found Lilian's lost cross, which is anathema to the undead satanists, Roger confronts Regula and uses the cross to disrupt his ritual, taking the hourglass and mocking the Count about seeing the last grains of his life slipping away before destroying it and the elixir. Anatole and Regula collapse, their corpses crumbling to bone, and then dust as our heroes depart Blood Castle.
Heinousness? Excuse?
Good god, Regula tops it. Anatole is in the film way more, as Regula has about 20 minutes of screentime, but everything is due to him. We see enough to confirm Regula's torture and murder of the maidens, the forest with the corpses and his attempts at murdering and torturing the others. He also left firm instructions that Anatole follows to the letter, so even dead, he's keeping things going in the evil plot department.
Now, being put in an iron mask (with spikes on the inside.) before being torn apart is...not gonna do wonders for your disposition, Regula was an evil, murdering satanist before this who's the exact same before and after execution/resurrection. Furthermore, Regula is a noticeable sadist. When anatole is about to throw Lilian into an iron maiden, Regula tells him to hold off as it's not painful enough, and he lets her have a Hope Spot to save Roger solely to get her hopes up, just so he can dash them and get more out of her blood, with clear relish. As for Anatole? He does share the elixir with him...thing is? He needs Anatole to revive him and carry on his will and put the plan into motion, with no outright friendship. Pure master/servant relationship there, even if Anatole is a shockingly evil Dragon.
Conclusion?
Keep Count Regula, or as he must be known: "Dr. Sadism."
edited 16th Jan '18 9:18:17 AM by Lightysnake
What happened to that Hans Gruber image? I think it was Joe Blitz who requested it, but I don't fully remember. It definitely had enough
votes.

Achille goes next week.