During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I talked to Ravok about that; that may be necessary in the future. As for now though, it's PROBABLY okay, especially since so many light novels seem to get adapted to AniManga anyway.
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Nice writeup for Dis! Hope you stick around, Dust.
Honestly, it kinda seems we're getting that regardless. Also, my first of several effortposts today.
What's the Work?
Kung Fu Killer is a TV film from 2008 starring David Carradine....think a dark and edgy remake of Kung Fu. David Carradine is Crane, a monk at a martial arts temple, mentored by the grandmaster, a woman named Myling (played by the legendary Chinese actress, Cheng Pei Pei, the Queen of Swords)....then one day, the peace if shattered when Myling's old nemesis Khan, seeking to eliminate her as a potential threat....the temple is massacred, the students and monks killed and Myling shot in the back. Despite her wishing for Crane to not seek vengeance, he sets off to Shanghai after Khan.
Who is Khan and what's he Done?
A talented fighter and former officer, Khan has taken advantage of the country's turmoil to go warlord. Dominating a pocket of China and oppressing the peasants, Khan makes money via the opium trade, ruining countless lives with any hint of rebellion swiftly stamped out. However, Khan is not satisfied with his meager holdings and wants to expand to all of China...
Now, opposed by aheroic warrior named Bingo, Khan notes Crane's arrival along with a Brooklyn lounge singer named Jane played by Daryl Hannah who is looking for her scientist brother. Well...Khan has him and others held captive and forced to work by addicting them to his opium, which he also uses to enslave others. We see Khan is also dealing with British businessmen. When eating with one and Crane, he gets tired of one businessman and guts him when the man has no real resources for him, stating "you've wasted my food. And now my time." As for the scientists, what's he having them make? Poison gas...When he believes it perfected, Khan reveals he has a group of innocents held hostage in a cell and releases the gas into said cell, watching them die horribly with a look of cold satisfaction on his face. After he manipulates Jane to try to make her his concubine using her brother's life as leverage. Finally, Crane convinces Khan he's on his side and Khan prepares to march out, destroy a village with his gas to test it and then conquer all of china when Crane leads him into a trap as Bingo and his forces destroy Khan's men. Khan ends up dueling Crane sword to sword, ending when Khan stabs Crane and Crane finishes him by slashing his throat or beheading him.
Mitigating Qualities?
Absolutely none. He's an ice cold prick who has a temple massacred, brutally kills people on the regular, tests poison gas on innocent captives and plans to gas his way to rule all of China. And no issue with heinousness as he's the only major villain.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Whilst it's not necessarily a disqualifier, Baran isn't even the Big Bad of that particular story: One of his crew turns out to be The Man Behind the Man, a member of a rogue Vulcan group planning to retrieve an ancient weapon and seize power, and Baran dies quite a way before the end.
Now...my next EP, which has been pending a while:
What's the work?
Breed is a 90s comic series written by Jim Starlin for Malibu comics....in 1949, a small town in Texas is wiped out mysteriously with no survivors,, save a comatose, pregnant woman and skeletons and blood around her. The captain in charge of the investigation ends up adopting the newborn, naming him Raymond Stoner...in Vietnam, Ray undergoes a mysterious transformation which he later forgets and finds himself being hunted by mysterious creatures. With the help of a mysterious, skull-faced woman named Rachel, Ray learns he is one of the Breed; there is another world where demons lurk. The leader of these demons, a 'Class 1', the strongest demon there is, had devised a scheme to conquer earth and more: to have their kind breed with human women and use the half-demon offspring. Ray is the son of the demon lord, and his father sends more and more Breed to kill or capture Ray, along with Rachel...part 1 ends with Rachel mortally wounded and Ray on his own...
Who is the Demon Lord?
The nameless demon lord is a Class 1...the higher you get there, the stronger a demon is. Class 1s are CRAZY rare, and for good reason...this guy? The strongest, the mastermind and the ultimate ruler of the plan to strip earth bare, the lord of what the Breeds call "The Fathers"....now, Ray has visions of a mysterious woman named Zoe Burroughs for years. In the early exploratory raids? Ray's mom was a young woman, the Demon Lord invaded her town, killed everyone there and raped her. Her mind broke from the horror and Captain Stoner interrupted a demon before he could take Ray's mom to the other side. The gateway closed, forcing the Fathers to rely on their Breed servitors and lesser demon classes. Ray proved....very adept in fighting them, and kills every single one sent after him while locating their agents on earth....it is believed he is The Prodigal, the strongest of the Breed, and their destined savior or destroyer.
Now, Zoe's son, Patrick? Is Ray's half-brother, the son of the demon king who raped Zoe when she was unconscious, meaning she kept her sanity and never knew Patrick was half demon....the Demon Lord later decides Patrick is way too strong, and the true Prodigal, and has his human stepfather try to murder him (the guy decides to use poison that can be mistaken for cancer as he doesn't want to go to prison, not that the Fathers care).
Now, Ray realizes he has to make a stand with his father gunning for him and uses some of his sanctum's magic water to cure Patrick...it has some side effects with his demon side, turning him into a near teenager and giving him a third eye on his forehead....unfortunately, things go wrong and Patrick melts away, realizing he was never the Prodigal.
The Breed and demons invade, with Ray and his allies (From multiple other works by Jim Starlin, including Dreadstar) make their stand....they're doing well against the legions of demons...and then 'Dear ol' dad' arrives to lead the attack. Ray then challenges his father in front of the demons. Now, the demons run on a strict "the biggest and baddest rules", the Demon Lord realizes he can't risk losing face by not accepting....now, Ray is no match for his dad when it turns out...Patrick has survived and mutated into a demon much like their father. Joining with Ray, the two fight their dad...ending in a massive showdown as Ray has Patrick lure him into a trap and destroys the Demon Lord's brain, killing him. Patrick, however, takes over the demon race and to protect earth, he's forced to become the new lord of the demons, concealing his survival from his mother and taking his people to new worlds to raid so they can feed and leave earth alone. Pat and Ray say farewell, realizing "Neither you nor I were the chosen one. But together, we were salvation. Mitigating Qualities?
The Demon Lord is rarely seen, but...he has a full personality. In part 3, Ray calls him to communicate, and the Demon Lord gets annoyed when Ray tries to speak demon because "your accent is nearly impenetrable" and Ray expresses surprise the Demon Lord knows English, the Father responds coldly "one must know what one is to consume."
Also, the demons aren't Always Chaotic Evil...it's even pointed out he's worse than they are. "The mystic demons obey the All Father because he's an unstoppable nightmare." They are a violent, brutal race of marauders, but the 'All Father' is bad by those standards, and doesn't even care about their standards of honor save for how it affects his standing, and the Breed show they're capable of choosing good or evil.
Overall, the Demon Lord is responsible for massive amounts of suffering and death, with plans to consume all of earth, with the knowledge he's done so on other worlds (by the existence of Alien breeds), creates a forced breeding scheme to do so and is an eager practitioner of attempted filicide.
Worst in story by FAR. Keeper.
Demon Lord.
Huh he has the exact same name as another CM as well as the fact its the title of my avatar. What a coincidence.
Huh so that's who that was. I was wondering as it sounded familiar. He also made Mongul for D.C.
edited 15th Jan '18 5:17:00 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
