TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#106201: Jan 14th 2018 at 12:52:16 PM

Alright, [tup] Miyamoto, Madeleine, Isabella, The Doctor, Calloway, and Griffin.

Tried to post the Homestuck effort post yesterday, but Data Vampires happened. I will now do it again today. It was pretty hard to write though, so I took some paragraphs from the MSPA wiki to put in the write up.

Who is she?

Her Imperious Condescension, or the Condesce, or Betty Crocker, is the former Troll Empress who was forced into the servetude of Lord English. She took the guise of Betty Crocker on Earth and started up a baked goods company that was really an empire waiting to rule. She serves as the Big Bad of Act 6.

What does she do?

The Condesce ruled the planet Alternia and its trolls with and iron fist. She enforced a brutal chaste system based on blood color (the lower on the color spectrum, the crappier one is treated). Not only that, the adults were not allowed to raise children, who were instead raised by monsters called lusii (plural for lusus). As the Condesce's blood was fuchsia, she was on top and had was thus blessed with an elongated lifespan, as well as a touch that could give this lifespan to others. She also established an empire in which she and the army would conquer and subjugate other planets into her rule. However, two snags appeared.

First was the Sufferer, the troll equivalent to Jesus. He had a vision of a peaceful Alternia in a past universe, and started up a rebellion with the help of three followers, the Dolorosa, the Ψiioniic, and the Disciple, to overthrow the chaste system. The Condesce and the other highbloods did not think well of this rebellion, and a war was started in which the highbloods won with the help of the Condesce's army.

The Sufferer was brutally tortured and executed, the Disciple was supposed to be executed but was spared by the e%ecutor and fled, the Dolorasa was sold into slavery, and the Ψiioniic was forced into a Fate Worse than Death by being forced to use his vast psychic powers to move the Condesce's ship. She liked his power so much that she extended his lifespan just to keep using him. With the rebellion over, the Condesce banished all adults from Alternia.

The other snag was her pet Elderitch Abomination, Gl'bgolyb. This beast had a psychic power that could kill any group the Condesce desired, and she used the threat of genocide to keep the trolls in check. However, Gl'bgolyb could also unleash so much energy that every troll in the universe except for the Condesce would be killed. The Condesce possessed a mental connection to Gl'bgolyb that allowed her to curb the power of the Vast Glub. The farther away she was, the weaker her connection with Gl'bgolyb would be, which weakened her ability to prevent the Vast Glub and eventually when Alternia was wrecked by the Reckoning, the Vast Glub kicked off.

Though every other troll except for those who escaped through Sburb were killed, the Condesce survived both the Reckoning (due to her absence from Alternia) and the Vast Glub (due to her blood color) and traveled back to Alternia arriving more than a thousand years after the Reckoning. Upon her arrival she found her planet in ruins and her race practically extinct, ending her long reign over Alternia, but she would be offered a new purpose.

She was chosen to replace the Handmaid as Lord English's servant, becoming his "emissary" to the places he is unable to reach himself. In order to do so, she had to kill the adult Handmaid, who had been waiting for this ever since she started to serve English. She adopted the psudonym Betty Crocker and arrived at Earth to eventually restart her empire.

On the pre-scratch Earth, Betty Crocker established a baked goods company of the same name. She married Colonel Sassacre (a comedian, not an actual colonel) and they adopted the two children who became Jade's Grandpa and John's Nanna. After Sassacre died, Nanna and Grandpa grew up under the wicked pastry baroness's care as siblings, until they were 13, when Grandpa developed a taste for adventure and departed with Sassacre's dog Halley. Nanna went on to out the Condesce, who then left that Earth.

On the post-scratch Earth, things went differently thanks to the switching of roles. During her time as Betty Crocker, the Condesce raised Jake's grandma and Jane's grandpa. She was especially cruel to them, even rumored to have gone so far as to murder their pet dog. At some point, Grandma left to go on adventures while Poppop remained, growing up to be a comedian. To remind and instill the Condesce of her greatest fear, her master, Grandma took on the surname English, and created all sorts of inventions emulating Lord English himself. In Grandma's rebellion, however, the Condesce eventually confronted Grandma and killed her for her insubordination. The Condesce also destroyed Grandma's and Jake's house immediately after Jake discovered the corpse of his grandmother.

Prior to the events of 2x3prong day, the Condesce hid on Earth between 50–100 years, secretly building up her Crockercorp empire and setting up the planet in preparation for her conquest. She had Jane chosen as an heiress, really a pawn to use later, then made her move to take over Earth. Governments across the world feared the army she supposedly brought with her and built up armies of their own, unknowingly making the army for her. As the madness ensued, the Condesce manipulated events that left millions of people dead and the world in complete disarray.

Once she took over, she began establishing a variety of seemingly random and nonsensical laws such as humans reproducing through donating their genetic material to drones or artificially changing the color of humans' blood to establish a blood caste system. This is seemingly done to restore the conditions of her rule in Alternia. Though at first the Condesce wanted to rebuild the troll race the clones she created were psychically killed by her "pet", who was brought on her battleship along with a number of other lusus species.

The Condesce gradually flooded the world through melting of the ice caps and somehow brought Carapacians to Earth, likely through the powers of her master. Over time she also hones the psychic skills of certain members of her lost troll society for herself. She also has control of post-scratch Earth's first guardian, GCat, making her especially formidable. Eventually she abandoned Earth all together and left it and the Carapacians to be destroyed by the Red Miles.

In the post-Scratch kids Sburb session, the Condesce has replaced the Black Queen on Derse. After taking over Derse offscreen she directs the Draconian Dignitary to investigate Dirk Strider's dream self's activity and eventually lends the Queen's Ring. She alsocontrols GCat who eventually teleports Roxy to her later in the B2 Kids' session, Roxy becoming her newest prisoner. Later she intervenes a Serious Business conversation involving the Dignitary and Dad Crocker about hats.

She later shows up in her flagship above Derse and shoots Psionic blast of energy from her eyes at its moon, destroying it and making Dirk and Roxy ascend. When Jade arrives the session, she uses both her ability to commune with animals and to manipulate people in order to take control of her. She then makes Jade teleport the tiaratop onto Jane's head, also placing under her control. They send Dirk into the Furthest Ring and capture Roxy and Jake to her.

While Jade interrogates Roxy it is revealed the Condesce has captured her with the intention of having her materialize a new Matriorb through the powers of Void. She seeks to plant the new orb on a planet far from Lord English's reach, so that she may restart the troll race out of harm's way. Whether she truly cares about her race or simply wants something to tyrannically rule over again is unclear.

She later appears on the scene of very concentrated dramatic tension on LOFAF, where Aranea had been stirring up trouble. The Condesce fires a psiioniic blast over a large portion of the planet's surface where the scattered fight was taking place, killing Kanaya in the process. Aranea, enraged at the destruction of her plans, control dead Damaras to launch LOLAR at LOFAF in an attempt to kill her. The Condesce jumps out of the way, but her ship is destroyed. Aranea tries once more, this time with LOCAH, but the Condesce blocks with LOHAC. While Aranea deals with an attack from Terezi the Condesce fields a similar assault from Rose. She throws her 2x3dent at Rose, impaling her in the chest. After retrieving her weapon, she fires a psiioniic blast in Rose's direction, who only narrowly avoids the blast, saved by Roxy. She then faces Aranea again, grabbing her by the throat, flicks the Ring of Life off her finger, and immediately snaps her neck. She then throws Aranea into the nearby wall of fire who dies a Just death.

With all of the mass death that has occured, John is force to use his newly gained retcon powers to rewrite the timeline. In this timeline Vriska, a troll who died in the previous timeline, is present on the meteor, a factor that the Condesce had not anticipated. She puts Jade to sleep before she can teleport the others away.

The Condesce is regarded as a high priority target by Vriska, and a team of John, Rose, Roxy and Kanaya volunteers to deal with her. They battle the Condesce on Derse, with interventions from Dad Crocker, Jane, Nannasprite and Jasprosesprite^2. The Condesce eventually overpowers the kids but is stealth stabbed by Roxy, losing blood and apparently dying.

Freudian Excuse?

None given while she rules Alternia. The closest she has is the universal hatred for Lord English. She is willing to team up with the kids to kill him, but of course she shanghais the kids into helping her with no regard for their safety.

Redeeming Qualities?

This is where it gets tricky. The Condesce's main goal throughout Act 6 is to ressurrect the troll race, which is almost extinct. On the surface, that is a very noble goal and would almost certainly disqualify her. In fact, I hesitated on posting the Condesce for so long because of this quality. She is even listed as Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.

However, there is one problem here. At no point in the story do we see her actually care about other trolls. In fact her interaction with them at most is negative, and shows that she cares nothing for them. The troll she cared the most for was only because of his vast power and she showed this by subjecting him to a Fate Worse than Death. Her attitude after many repeated failures to bring them back is very upbeat. Any of the trolls she encounters in the present day she tries to kill without hesitation. Ultimately, she does not seem to care about the trolls personally but rather the empire that they can bring her.

Also, her relationship with Colonel Sassacre is not redeeming. She is never actually shown caring about him. Hell, we don't even see them together at all.

Heinousness?

She is about on par with Jack Noir. She is vastly powerful, but does not have First Guardian powers, nor is she anywhere as powerful as Lord English.

Verdict?

I'm going to abstain for now. Even though I have argued against the redeeming quality, it might not be enough.

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#106202: Jan 14th 2018 at 1:29:12 PM

[tup]Briggs and The Condesce

I would like to recommend these images from The Joker Blogs for the Fan Works Monster page!

I’m hoping one will fit the pages liking!

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106203: Jan 14th 2018 at 1:52:15 PM

[tup] Briggs

Gotta think on Betty Crocker.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106204: Jan 14th 2018 at 1:58:41 PM

I'll need to think over Briggs for a bit. [tdown] to the Condesce though, I really don't remember her being characterized all that much. Because of that, there isn't a whole lot that can be used to discount her redeeming quality. It's possible to view it as being purely self-serving but I think it's too ambiguous to definitively say she doesn't genuinely care about resurrecting her race.

edited 14th Jan '18 1:59:35 PM by TommyFresh

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#106205: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:02:16 PM

She actually does have characterization. She's sassy, flamboyent, and very vain. She just doesn't talk much, but when she does, she shows a lot of personality.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106206: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:03:59 PM

Yea on Briggs.....Abstain on Betty

@ACW Writeup for Zykan is nice....My only criticism is that you Can remove This sign ")" on "including Keito's clone)"'s part

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106207: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:05:00 PM

[up][up] She still doesn't have a whole lot of it, and what characterization she gets makes her a little hard to take seriously. We certainly don't see enough of it to totally debunk her apparent redeeming quality, at least in my opinion.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106208: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:05:29 PM

[tup]Briggs

Considering he uses Kill and Replace on her. I don't see that as redeeming.

Abstain on Betty though.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#106209: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:10:05 PM

Gonna go with [tup] for Briggs after a bit of thought. The fact that he seemed to want to protect the Federation to start was actually my main sticking point, but considering all the pointless deaths he causes kinda nullifies that.

crankers Since: Mar, 2014
#106210: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:17:08 PM

[tdown] on Betty Crocker. There just isn't enough in the story for me to truly negate the fact that nearly every one of her plans IS based trying to resurrect her near-extinct race.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106211: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:18:01 PM

Fixed for Zykan. The whole purpose of the double-hyphen was so we wouldn't need the parentheses...and then I forget to remove one [lol]

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106212: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:32:40 PM

Crocker is never one I've thought counted... her motives are far too contentious.

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#106213: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:11:43 PM

[tup] Briggs, [tdown] Crocker.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#106214: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:18:27 PM

Abstain on Crocker. I can see both arguments here so I'm rather mixed.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106215: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:38:51 PM

@Utter Koala As for the images regarding fanmade Joker....Unsure about that but I think the second image can work (Though have to say I like Zykan's image more despite the poor quality even if you can see what hes doing once got cropped)

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106216: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:46:39 PM

Yea to Briggs, nay to Crocker...

Now...has it been a while since we've had an example from 2000 AD? Oh, yes it has. Let's remedy that, shall we?

What's the work?

From 2000 AD...welcome to The Red Seas. A swashbuckling pirate adventure tale, centered around Captain Jack Dancer and his journeys on the high seas. A former naval officer who induced his crew to overthrow their sadistic and tyrannical captain, taking the ship they call the Red Wench...now, supernatural occurrences follow Jack like sharks to chum....in the first arc? Jack is returning to port when his crew is beset by a mysterious black galleon. Jack's lover Isabella, a witch, is kidnapped by a crew crewed by the rotting dead. And its captain? The man who damned them. Who 'bought their souls with Satan's shillings." The Hollow Man. Orlando Doyle.

Who is Orlando Doyle?

A wicked Necromancer and Satanist. The Hollow Man. Orlando Doyle desires one thing: an end to creation. To kill God himself. Now, to do this, Doyle seeks a mystical tome that contains the 9 million names of God himself. The book was broken up and Doyle has been putting it back together. Jack and crew end up pillaging a Spanish galleon. One of their items of plunder? A very important page, which draws Doyle's attention. Doyle attacks the Red Wench, killing much of Jack's crew after, and kidnaps Jack's lover, the witch Isabella, to use her powers to help put the rest back together and use her magic to find the necessary temple he needs in the Devil's Triangle...we see that Doyle's crew? Are the revived zombies of drowned sailors, taken by Doyle himself, murdered, souls enslaved after making unwise 'deals' with him. The process is...terrible, with the dead enslaved horribly, their souls begging to be freed. The reason for this? Doyle had promised his soul to Satan...but tried to trick him with the 'patchwork' he created from his crews' stolen souls, while offering his soul to Hecate for the Albrecht Tome, so as to unmake the world.

With the help of other supernatural forces, Jack gets some stalwart comrades to chase Doyle down, as Doyle spends his time with Isabella...when she refuses to help, he nearly feeds her to the zombies, threatening to let them take her fingers and toes as 'appetizers' if she won't cooperate. He also allows her to use some magic she's been saving to send out a signal...which is promptly eaten by sea monsters following them, drawn to the rotting flesh of Doyle's crew, which he knew would happen and gave her a Hope Spot for fun. "A little sadistic entertainment is better than none."

Upon arriving at the Devil's Triangle, Doyle sacrifices a few of his crew in magic traps to locate the temple....which brings one back from his zombie state only to de-age him out of existence. When Doyle reveals his plan to complete exterminate creation, Isabella says he'll get caught in it, too...Doyle comments there are other worlds he plans to jump to, and when Isabella begs him to think of all the innocents he'll kill, Doyle remarks "Hmm, gosh, you're right. A world without kittens and puppies would be just dreadful! You know, you've convince me, this ark arts malarkey is just a phase. I'd best go back to Oxford, find me a wife and have some babies!" before making a pass at Isabella. He then snidely comments after her rejection that at least the fiends of hell aren't so 'picky.'

Now, Doyle tries to kill Isabella only for Jack and friends to interfere....Doyle uses the book to summon his infernal mistress Hecate to allow her to use the Albrecht Tome to unmake creation...only for Lucifer himself to arrive, having taken Hecate out and hijacked the plan. Doyle realizes he's in hot water when Lucifer was well aware of his attempts to pull a fast one. His Infernal Majesty, however, is in a decent mood and strengthens Doyle for the work ahead. Doyle proceeds to try to kill Jack and friends to unmake creation with the book, but in the ensuing fight, Isabella manages to outmaneuver Lucifer and uses the Albrecht Tome, with God's names there, to banish Lucifer as Jack finishes off Doyle for good.

Mitigating Qualities?

One of the funniest subversion I've seen in ages: He gets very upset when Isabella hits him with a chair and destroys it. "That's my favorite chair! It was my mother's chair! She used it to hang herself!" ....aside from that? No. Doyle is just a devious, sadistic warlock out to end the world. The closest thing to a redeeming quality he has is that he's hilarious and defines Faux Affably Evil.

Funnily enough, he gets cloned and that clone turns out to be a perfectly nice individual who's disgusted by the original Doyle.

Heinous Standard?

For the first villain, Doyle's probably the worst in series as far as mortal (for a given value of 'mortal' anyways) villains go. The necromancy, the murder and the attempted omnicide? Yeah, pass.

Conclusion?

Keeper I'd say.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106218: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:52:40 PM

[tup] to Doyle

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#106221: Jan 14th 2018 at 3:59:27 PM

Easy [tup] to Doyle.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106222: Jan 14th 2018 at 4:23:16 PM

[tup] Doyle

[tdown] Crocker. Upon thinking about It as It seems she doesnt have enough characterisation to nullify her potential redeeming qualitiy

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106223: Jan 14th 2018 at 4:23:21 PM

The dude's last name is Dancer, yet he beat a Satan-empowered villain (who was banished due to God's names)? just bugs me

[tup] Doyle. You say the first villain?

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#106224: Jan 14th 2018 at 4:24:34 PM

[tup]Doyle.

[up][up][up][up][up][up]If that’s the case then I’ll settle for this image for the Fan Works page.

edited 14th Jan '18 4:25:00 PM by UtterKoala

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#106225: Jan 14th 2018 at 4:25:06 PM

[tup] Orlando Doyle. He sounds like a hoot.


Total posts: 326,048
Top