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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#106151: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:00:13 PM

[tup] to Miyamoto

A hesitant [tup] Madeleine, though.

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#106152: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:12:30 PM

[tup] Miyamoto, weak [tup] Madeleine.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106154: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:48:30 PM

[tup] to Miyamoto not Musashi [lol] and Madeline

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106155: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:49:33 PM

So, for tonight? I've got a keep from a franchise I'm surprised doesn't have more...

What's the setting?

Predator: Concrete Jungle is a game in the Predator franchise set in a future where humanity has used the Predator's technology for their own gain... following a scarred Predator appropriately named "Scarface" who was disgraced on a failed hunt from a hundred years back, Scarface returns to the city he had his eye blown out in to find it drastically reinvented; the company known as Borgia Industries has built a futuristic Wretched Hive full of gang violence, porn stars, and futuristic technology. Scarface penetrates the city, now known as Neonopolis, to regain his lost honor, but the past isn't as dead as he thought even after a century... may I introduced you to Isabella Borgia, aka MOTHER.

Who is Isabella? What has she done?

In life, Isabella Borgia was the trophy wife of the ruthless "God of Gangsters," Bruno Borgia, who wanted to take claim over the crime-riddled hellpit of New Way City by wiping out his competition and building a crime empire for himself, Isabella, and their newborn son Hunter. In preparation for this, Bruno relocated Isabella to a church to give birth there (much to her open dismay) as he prepared to fight off Scarface, who was hunting his way through the city... meeting his demise in the process. Scarface slaughtered and decapitated Bruno, bringing his decapitated head to Isabella who had just then given birth to a very sickly, weak Hunter. Seemingly unwilling to actually kill Isabella (Yautja code of honor and all that... they like their prey to at least put up some semblance of a fight) Isabella used Scarface's hesitance to whip out a gun and blow out Scarface's eye, forcing him to flee and blow up New Way City in anger. Surviving the destruction somehow, Isabella found out that shooting out Scarface's eyes exposed her to the regenerative properties of the Yautja blood, extending her life and revitalizing her sick child. Seeing potential in the Predators, Isabella reinvents herself as a corporate giant by founding Borgia Enterprises and turning the remains of New Way City into the futuristic Neonopolis over a course of one-hundred years.

Now... Neonopolis? Is not actually the technological utopia it seems. Neonopolis is a Wretched Hive defined, a hotbed of daily murder, rape, drug trade, and criminal activity with constant gang wars, forced prostitution and human trafficking, and black market trade with weapons made by Borgia Enterprises either sold to murder-happy gangsters to fuel their gang wars or overseas to the highest bidder. All this? Goes right back to Isabella, who's kept her physical body in stasis while turning her mind into the immortal supercomputer MOTHER. Oh, and Neonopolis' corrupt state? Entirely intentional on Isabella's part, who deliberately keeps the city in as wretched a state as possible to create a setting that the the Predators see apt to hunt in. Luring in Predators into Neonopolis to butcher their way through the city each season, Isabella eventually has them captured for two purposes; to use their blood to keep her and the now-grown Hunter alive, and to subject the Predators themselves to grotesque experiments to turn them into experimental cybernetic hybrids.

Now... Scarface, as mentioned, comes back to Neonopolis, and proceeds to utterly massacre his way through the city to the concern of Borgia Industries' current supervisor Lucretia, Isabella's own granddaughter. This is just to Isabella's plan, who eventually has Scarface captured while trying to subject him to experimentation. Scarface busts out, and Isabella takes the reins at this point, directly ordering Lucretia (who at this point just thinks MOTHER is nothing more than a supercomputer) to kill the scientists who captured him for living out their use and unleashing some of the hybrid Predators onto Scarface. Eventually, though, Lucretia flees to the heart of Neonopolis with Scarface in pursuit where she sees Isabella's original body.

Lucretia's ultimate plan, when she's confronted on it? To keep luring Predator after Predator to Neonopolis until they eventually collect enough of their blood to use their DNA to create entire armies of supersoldier Predators, which she'll then use to crush and enslave the rest of Earth — and then, following that, other worlds entirely. Scarface's role? Isabella's developed a creepy infatuation with him, having lured Scarface here and having hundreds of Neonopolis' own populace brutally butchered by him to slake Scarface's bloodthirst, all to make him her trophy. Unleashing a bunch of xenomorphs onto Scarface to test out his abilities, Isabella remarks that she "never got over" Scarface as the Predator uses his spear to gut her physical body, finally killing her.

Any mitigating factors?

Okay, so... Isabella's own family? All tools to her. Isabella doesn't flinch at all when Scarface shows her the decapitated head of Bruno, refers to Hunter as a "stunted weakling who should have died in his father's arms" and only seeing anything of worth in him because of the Predator's blood, and using Lucretia as a pawn while callously disregarding the threat to her life posed by Scarface. Her thoughts on Scarface himself are nothing more than the typical creepy obsessiveness as well, with her focus on Scarface's abilities rather than Scarface himself and having no hesitance to trying to have him experimented on like the other Predators she captures or torn apart by xenomorphs.

Heinous standard? I grant, the Yautja as a species are awful, with Scarface himself probably having one of the highest kill-counts in the entire franchise (while still being disqualified due to the strict honor code of the species) but... Isabella? More than clears, regardless. A human getting up to the stuff she does is almost unheard of, at least to these extents, with Scarface's own giant kill-count partially influenced by Isabella's own manipulations. On her own count? Isabella is responsible for deliberately creating a horrible crapsack setting where every crime you can think of is committed in the city daily for a hundred years, all for the purpose of luring Predators to the city to horribly experiment on them and eventually create an army to lead a slaughterous conquest to dominate Earth and countless other worlds through them. Isabella is impressively awful, both for the franchise and in general.

Ultimately? I say pass on all counts.

Conclusion?

Keep her.

Thoughts?

edited 13th Jan '18 9:03:22 PM by Scraggle

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#106157: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:55:39 PM

MOTHER indeed Keeps, and a 'Yes' to Madeleine.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106158: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:57:40 PM

[tup] to Isabella Borgia....So shes the only keeper from the franchise?

[down] Ah thanks for the info [nja]

edited 13th Jan '18 9:10:55 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106159: Jan 13th 2018 at 8:59:37 PM

[up] No, we got Bad Blood from the comics too. Albeit, there are a few near keeps like some of the nastier Preds who have no honor, but Bad Blood is such a gigantic standard. Isabella, on the other hand, is probably the nastiest human character in the franchise and one of the absolute worst in the AVP universe period with all this in mind.

With Predator, though, there's still a lot of untapped comics and books especially... I imagine there still may be a keep or two yet.

edited 13th Jan '18 9:00:40 PM by Scraggle

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#106161: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:03:44 PM

[tup] to Isibella

[up][up]What about the Predator movies is there anyone that qualifies over there

[down] That doesn't mean there might not be one in the upcoming Predator movie coming out this year. wink

edited 13th Jan '18 9:55:23 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#106163: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:16:49 PM

[tup] MOTHER. So you play as a Predator in this game?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#106164: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:20:47 PM

Indeed. And it. Is. Awesome. Think Assassin's Creed but as a flipping Predator.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#106165: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:25:34 PM

[tup] Isabella.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Nithael (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#106166: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:30:57 PM

[tup] to Miyamoto, Madeleine and Isabella.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#106167: Jan 13th 2018 at 9:55:39 PM

[tup]Isabella.

Why so serious?
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106168: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:20:14 PM

By the way, I'd like to make a slight change to the quote on Comic Books... what we've got right now is weirdly chopped up and inconsistently truncated. I don't know if it's for length or what, but the end result just looks awkward and clunky, so I'd advocate we use (the relevant portion of) the full quote — which isn't much longer, I should note.

"(M)y lovin' is hot. Very, very hot. So I hadda do 'em in th' ol' eye sockets. That's the only part of a normal human's anatomy that's sturdy enough to take ol' Willy Pete's lovin' for long. The rest of th' fragile ol' human body just burns an' melts an' vaporizes away before I can get off. A man has needs, know what I'm saying? Especially when his manhood burns hotter'n the surface of th' sun. Be lyin' if I didn't admit that th' screamin' helps get me off."
Willy Pete, Empowered

Thoughts? Contentions?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106169: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:47:58 PM

[up] Why not we use some quotes from CM quotes.....Contagion or Kaizen's quote seems to have a potential

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#106170: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:49:34 PM

[tup] Isabella Borgia. Glad to see Jerry the Predator getting more groundswell around these here parts. I hope he finally got the approval of Uncle Phil Predator after he destroyed the cult of the Scorpion Death God.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106171: Jan 13th 2018 at 10:50:01 PM

Those wouldn't work for the main comic page, Elfen (being DC/Marvel ones and all that). Given Willy Pete's quote is still about a man raping and burning people to death? It works — I'd rather we just use the full version rather than one that's been unnecessarily cut into.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106172: Jan 13th 2018 at 11:05:14 PM

Ah alright.....Makes sense why that quote could work

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106173: Jan 14th 2018 at 12:18:17 AM

One bad B-movie EP then!

What's the Work?

Terminal Virus is a Filipino post-apocalyptic action film. 23 years ago? Two viral strains raged out of control after a massive war. One strain infects men. One infects women. On their own they're pretty harmless...the kicker? The viruses are transferred via intercourse, and once they mix? The subjects die from The Plague...this has done wonders for human civilization, you can imagine. So, one genius scientist has long ago finished a serum to nullify the virus...living in a large, peaceful compound, men, women and children alike.

Unfortunately, the Men's Army, led by the brutal and evil Calloway is a scourge on civilization, hunting down innocents and pillaging whatever they come across...

Who is Calloway and what's he do?

Played by veteran monster actor Richard Lynch, Calloway is an ex-military man who runs the Men's Army with an iron fist. The Men's Army is a brutal group, hunting down and killing those it finds in a mission of domination, control and misogynist punishment. Now, Calloway starts the movie by learning of the settlement...and in a hell of an establishing character moment, Calloway leads the Men's Army into town and in a rather brutal and totally not gratuitous scene? He massacres everyone...the scientist, the men there, the women and the children in large numbers with the only survivor being young Joe...fleeing into the wilderness, Joe ends up meeting embarrassed actor James Brolin as McCabe, saving his life....who in a twist? Is an ex member of the Men's Army. See, McCabe knows Calloway is full of it, and tried to resist him, so Calloway simply tried to have him shot. Joe rescued him and the two travel together until they meet a woman who belongs to another community of mostly women led by The Queen. Unfortunately? Calloway catches on and decides to try to murder everyone there as well while Joe tries to create a cure from what his father left him.Turns out? He succeeds.

Now, in the battle, Calloway tries to kill everyone in the city, but when things go south, he abandons his men to the slaughter while fleeing with his right hand man Rager. They sneak into the city as Calloway's remaining forces surrender and...it turns out they're mostly not bad guys. Just brainwashed by Calloway and kept in by fear of him, with them integrating peacefully into the new town. Calloway attempts to steal in to murder Joe and keep humanity screwed without his serum, only to be beaten down and finished off by the Queen with a well placed gunshot.

Mitigating Qualities?

No. Calloway is just apower hungry bandit with delusions of grandeur who cares nothing for anyone

Heinous Standard?

Sets it. Only major bad guy, everyone else is under his control. Completely. easy pass.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106174: Jan 14th 2018 at 12:40:45 AM

One other tonight

What's the Work?

From the 1990 film The Ambulance which is notable in the annals of cinema as the first ever Stan Lee film role/cameo (as himself!)...starring Eric Roberts, directed by Larry Cohen. Our hero? Josh Baker, artist for Marvel comics. Josh meets a young lady named Cheryl who suddenly becomes stricken and has an attack on the streets. Shouting desperately for an ambulance, one shows up and takes Cheryl. Josh checks in on Cheryl at the hospital...and learns there is no record of her ever being admitted. And on a little digging, her roommate was taken as well and vanished.....let's talk the Doctor.

Who is The Doctor?

Have I proposed a few villains known as 'The Doctor?' Maybe it's just me. Whatever, anyways. the nameless Doctor, played by Eric Braeden, is a Mad Scientist and egomaniac who runs a disturbing operation with illegal experiments on humans. The ambulance, of course, isn't legit, but he scopes out people who fit the profiles from medical records, has them poisoned so they'll have attacks and has his special Ambulance on standby to abduct them. When this is done, they're brought in to be experimented on...and then eventually murdered (when Cheryl asks if she's going to die, he cheerfully responds that eventually they'll kill her...but she'll be in perfect health when they do so)...or they're sold to other testing facilities in the country to be used as guinea pigs.

Now, when Josh and his friend, elderly reporter Elias Zacharai are digging in with the help of cop Sandra Malloy, they try to enlist Lieutenant Frank Spencer...the Doctor sets a trap and has Spencer murdered. Elias is abducted and meets the Doctor personally. The two talk and Elias spits in the doctor's face, prompting him to blow up for a moment before...he tells Elias he wants to see how much pain he can take without dying and injects him with an agent right in the central nervous system to leave him suffering. Josh and Sandra follow a lead to a nightclub where the Doctor has his men attempt to take Sandra to the upstairs area where he's running part of his operation...it fails, but the Doctor gets in the ambulance and tries to run Josh and Sandra down, regardless of whether or not he hits any civilians, killing at least one person before escaping. The cops bust the ring, revealing people in various terrible states thanks to the Doctor's experiments. Elias gets out just in time to help save the day. (just a note, Elias is worth the price of admission in this movie, seriously.)

Josh and Sandra return to Josh's place together, only for the Doctor to attack them in the ambulance, running Sandra down and chasing Josh who manages to lure him to a construction site with a steep drop. the doctor rants how Josh ruined everything and tries to run him down...Josh lets him smash through the walls down a VERY long drop below where the...ambulance explodes for some reason on hitting the ground, with Josh and Sandra going to the hospital in an ambulance together, now a couple but unable to kiss as their gurneys are just a bit too far apart.

Heinous standard?

Only bad guy except his henchmen, so pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nope. He does shout at Josh that there are so many diseases he could've cured, but...the Doctor doesn't seem to share any of his breakthroughs. He brags he found a way to cure diabetes when greeting Cheryl at the hospital, informing her they're going to test it on her...but admits they'll kill her anyways. The Doctor treats this stuff like an ego trip and game, curing things for the intellectual satisfaction, but people in his clutches are tortured, experimented on and eventually sold to other facilities to be used and then disposed of once their value is at an end.

That, and when Elias challenges him, he decides to put him in godawful, agonizing pain?

Conclusion?

Easy keeper to the doctor, I'd say.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106175: Jan 14th 2018 at 12:47:16 AM

Yes to Calloway and the Doctor. I've got another Lynch or two planned myself, but until then, another for tonight...

What's the setting?

The Fiend Who Walked the West is a low-budget, 1958 remake of Kiss of Death, whom some of you might remember as the noir film with Tommy Udo I rewrote back at the end of 2017. A reimagining of the film's general plot as a Western, gangster family man Nick Bianco is replaced with outlaw family man Daniel Hardy, who opens the film participating in a bank robbery in desperation to provide for his family. The robbery is a bust and everyone ends up escaping — except Dan, who's thrown in the slammer for ten years just as his wife Elena is about to give birth. His cellmate... this film's version of Tommy Udo and the eponymous fiend? Played by Robert Evans, Felix Griffin.

Who is Griffin? What has he done?

Griffin ("Felix Griffin — after my Pa") is a fast-talking criminal and Indian scalp hunter put behind bars for three months on the charge of giving whiskey to an Indian girl he ran off with... confessing casually to his new cellmate Dan that he actually did something much worse to her that he refuses to specify, something that led to the girl hanging herself in response. Griffin? Has a vague semblance of charisma, a Consummate Liar who's unpopular with the prisoners but innocent enough to law officials that they earnestly refuse to believe he could really be such a dangerous man (well, the stupid ones, anyways... some of them know that Griffin's a stone-cold killer but can't lock him up because of a lack of evidence or something like that). Griffin first shows his bad side when he fucks with another prisoner when he's passing out rations, prompting him to attack Griffin... Griffin, being an incredibly petty sort known to murder people just for touching him in a way he doesn't like, grinds up one of the glass animals he keeps into the man's food next time he serves up rations, leading to the man's agonizing, slow death. The shallow friendship that Griffin cultivated with Dan is obliterated when Dan attacks Griffin over an insensitive, mocking comment he makes about Dan's wife just when Griffin is escorted out of the prison after serving his sentence.

Now, since Dan told Griffin that the money that the ringleader of the robbery, Finney, stole is in his hands with a quarter of it meant to be shipped out to Dan's wife, Griffin decides to exploit the opportunity. Griffin stops by Finney's house and chats up Finney's paralyzed old mother before murdering her with a bow and arrow in a scene deliberately modeled after the "pushing the old lady down the stairs" scene of the original. When Finney comes down, Griffin terrorizes him with the corpse of his mother before making him cough up the location of the stolen money, blowing him through with a shotgun the second he does and torching the house to remove both the bodies. Further investigating into the money that was supposed to go to Elena and also desiring to ruin Dan's life for attacking him, Griffin intimidates Elena while she's weak and near-childbirth, tormenting and scaring her to the point where she miscarries. Furthermore? When the local lawmen confront Griffin over the shiny new house and housekeeper (who Griffin abuses and punches around for giggles numerous times through the story), Griffin prompts one of them into slapping him. This — you guessed it — gives Griffin incentive to coldly murder him and another officer in response.

Wanting to convict Griffin but with no evidence to do so (apparently, Griffin can hide behind the excuse of "Indians did it" for every single one of these obvious murders seriously why are the police so goddamned stupid in this movie) the chief-of-police arranges Dan to bust out so he can stay with Griffin for a while and eventually get him to cough up something to convict him with. Griffin plays dumb to Dan's questions and lets him stay around for a while, later reuniting Dan with his family and watching as Dan basically disavows Elena to keep up the ruse with Griffin. Griffin, knowing Dan's a family man? Finally whips out a gun and confronts Dan on just what he wants, gleefully confessing to the murders and stating he was always going to murder Dan anyways for his previous attack, trying to have May tie Dan up with intent to ride back to Dan's house and force him to watch as Griffin tortures Elena to death over a course of days before killing them both. Dan gets the drop on him, subdues him, brings him to court, where Griffin is tried and convicted for five separate counts of murder and all is well and good-

...actually, no, they let him go despite hard evidence against him. Accurate to the original film, but... God. Anyways, Griffin gives Dan a little sign that he's not done with him yet by sending him a carriage with May's dead body in it, having broke her neck for siding with Dan earlier. Dan, realizing he needs to solve the issue with Griffin in his own way, sends his family to safety and confronts Griffin in his own home again. Griffin continues to play dumb but lets slip that he's still going after Dan... and this time, he's targeting not only Elena, but Dan's very young daughter as well. Having had it up to here with the madman? Dan beats the absolute shit out of him and turns him to a sobbing mess, telling him that he will always be watching Griffin no matter what and he'll greet Griffin every time he sees him by giving him a good few slaps with the knowledge it pisses him off. Intending to drive him out of town with this, Griffin stays anyways, furiously devoted to revenge... and Dan corners Griffin in a bar after he realizes Griffin won't stop until he's dead. Giving Griffin a gun and telling him to meet outside to settle it with a good old draw, Griffin instead tries to murder him while his back is turn, leading to Dan to turn the gun on him instead and shoot him dead.

Any mitigating factors?

...Nope. No standards, no excuse (the closest thing he gets to one with some abusive sisters is incredibly hard to believe given almost everything that comes out of his mouth is sheer, unfiltered bullshit) and easily, easily clears the standard for a Code-era movie with lots of nasty, petty murder.

Conclusion?

Tommy Udo but in a Western, and even worse? I say easy keep.

Thoughts?

edited 14th Jan '18 12:49:00 AM by Scraggle


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