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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106126: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:47:33 PM

[tup] to the Not-Masayoshi Shido/Masashi Sudou tongue

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#106127: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:51:09 PM

[up] Oh, I'm not the only one who read it that way! grin

Shido was one of my favorite monsters of 2017 by the way. So goddamn topical...

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106128: Jan 13th 2018 at 2:51:23 PM

Interesting about Belial:

  • Redemption Rejection: Geed sees his memories and understands that deep down, Belial is sad over his banishment, in pain from the consequences of his evil actions, tired from his countless resurrections...but Belial is too consumed by hatred and pride to listen and continues the battle, forcing Geed to kill him in a Beam-O-War.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106129: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:02:39 PM

[up]Keep in mind his son offered him a chance at redemption and to stop the cycle of resurrection and he threw it back in his face thanks to Revenge Before Reason. So it doesn't affect his position on the trope.

Though this series did make him much more complex as far as a character goes.

Also sudou is a Starter Villain. Other than Angelo Katagari and Kamoshida, I wonder how many CM's are Starter Villain 's

edited 13th Jan '18 3:06:46 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#106130: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:04:36 PM

Okay, Brigit has 13[tup] and 0[tdown], so I’ll be doing a write up!

  • My Name Is Cinder: Brigit Stark is the abusive mother of Cinder Fall. A Gold Digger, Brigit married Cinder’s father with the intention of driving him to suicide and taking his inheritance. Having three children with him, a young Cinder hears her mother talking about trying to get rid of her and her older brother before they were born, planning to do the same with this unborn child in an attempt to get Cinder’s father to commit suicide out of grief. When she catches Cinder listening, she almost strangles her to death before dragging her to bed and threaten her in a motherly tone. Growing impatient, Brigit eventually told Cinder’s father the truth about her intentions with marrying him, causing him to commit suicide, much to the horror of his children. After this, Brigit turned Cinder’s siblings against her and made her a slave in her own home, just because she could. She would regularly beat and scream at Cinder, or have Cinder’s older brother, Sterling, bully Cinder on her behalf. In one instance, she beat Cinder for trying to sneak into the kitchen to get a glass of water, afterwards revealing why her father committed suicide and wishing her to do the same. When Sterling started to reach eighteen, she poisoned him to death to keep him from getting any of the inheritance. When Cinder finally snaps, drugs her, ties her to the railing of the stairs, and sets the house aflame with a dust crystal. Brigit goes from threatening the young Cinder to pathetically begging for her to save her. A selfish, greedy coward, Birgit is single-handedly responsible for Cinder becoming the monster she is.

edited 13th Jan '18 3:07:19 PM by UtterKoala

Fourze99 Since: Jun, 2015
#106131: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:04:45 PM

Alright, seems like 7[tup] for Sudo, so here's a write-up. Shorter than most of mine because he's got little screentime, but it's probably for the best.

Masashi Sudoh/ Kamen Rider Scissors is a detetctive who uses his position to cover up his illegal acts. Asked for a larger share of the profits by his partner, Sudoh kills him and plasters him into the wall of his own shop to hide the evidence. When Shiro Kanzaki offers him an Advent Deck, Sudoh agrees in order to use the monster he's given, Volcancer, to feed it anyone who knows of his crimes. He later attempts to kill a reporter inspecting his shop and Shinji Kido after he offers peace, along with any associates of his. With his crimes discovered, Sudoh reveals his intent to kill anybody who knows, following it up by feeding two cops to Volcancer before he succumbs to the same fate as them. In spite of having little screentime, Sudoh demonstrated that some Riders were selfish people with only their own interests in mind, willing to stoop to absolute lows.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106132: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:29:05 PM

How many murders exactly does Sudoh have?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106133: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:30:48 PM

@miraculous iirc we do have Pluton from Sidekicks as one of the Starter Villains that ended up qualify as a CM.

@Hamburger Time Gotta be honest.......I haven't play Persona series but yeah........It's pretty interesting though grin But yea, from what I saw......Too bad I have to say that Shido's kind of an one-dimensional jerkass but ah well tongue

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#106134: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:00:43 PM

@miraculous: There is Arthur Donaldson from Ripper Street

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106135: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:06:37 PM

Sugarman and Shepherd strike me as particularly vile instances of a Starter Villain applying for this trope.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106136: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:14:45 PM

Sugarman's from Xombi; what's Shepherd from?

edited 13th Jan '18 4:14:51 PM by ACW

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#106137: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:15:22 PM

@Scraggle Which work Sugarman and Sheperd are coming from?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#106138: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:18:24 PM

So uh what happened to the discussion on the Empire villains. Didn't we say we were cutting Tetch and Mike and maybe Ryland as well. Just bringing this up as it seems to have been forgotten.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#106140: Jan 13th 2018 at 5:23:58 PM

ACW can you submit those cuts?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#106141: Jan 13th 2018 at 5:26:12 PM

I can; did we decide all 3 go? I know Tetch; can't remember what we decided on the other 2.

edited 13th Jan '18 5:27:10 PM by ACW

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106142: Jan 13th 2018 at 5:37:27 PM

At the very most, Ryland and Mike got some abstains, but I thin the general majority was to cut all of them.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#106143: Jan 13th 2018 at 5:57:55 PM

'Yes' to Todd—Er, I mean Daly.

I suppose I'll go ahead and formally say we should cut the Empire baddies....Tetch has a blatant potential mental problem, Mike doesn't measure up in heinousness due to a lack of explicit victims, and it's pretty hard to tell whether Ryland ACTUALLY had full agency after being infected. So....yeah.

Now, got a pretty large collab with some other Tropers coming in the next few days, but until then, I've got us a candidate here...was pretty hesitant on this one for awhile, but I think he likely Keeps overall.

What's the work?

17-sai is a 2006 thriller/drama manga based (loosely) on the Junko Furuta case of 1980 (Not a fun case to read in-detail about when you're the smashing age of twelve).

Our story follows two main characters....Hiroki, a high school boy who just wants to be popular and in a cool gang, and Miki, a teenage girl who is desperately searching for her missing twin sister Sachiko.

Hiroki knows where Sachiko is, of course, but him being a cowardly little piece of crap, he keeps his mouth shut and allows the main villain to get away with his many crimes. Said villain?

Who is he?

Miyamoto is a hulking teenager feared throughout his neighborhood due to his sadism and viciousness, which, coupled with his tied to the Yakuza, makes said fear well-earned.

What has he done?

Miyamoto is introduced to us as he recruits Hiroki and his friend, Takashi, to Miyamoto's little "gang" of delinquents. Miyamoto and said gang regularly brutally assault people, be they rival gangs or complete innocents, with Miyamoto himself always taking a sick glee in the acts and often having to be talked down by his underlings before he kills the people he is assaulting.

Running various extortion rackets and the like, even at one point threatening a man, apparently in front of his daughter, with a broken beer bottle lest he pay Miyamoto money.

One night, Miyamoto has Hiroki lure in a teenage girl to their car, at which point Miyamoto and his gang kidnap her. Taking her to a house, Miyamoto proceeds to beat then rape her, all while cackling.

Days later, a horrified Hiroki learns that Miyamoto has kept the girl, Sachiko, locked up in the house, regularly beating and raping her and allowing his gang, along with others who swear loyalty to him, to "have a go" at her as well.

Oh, and anytime Hiroki, or ANY of Miyamoto's gang for that matter, show hesitance or signs of disobeying him? Miyamoto doesn't hesitate to viciously pound them, all while continuing to keep up his "buddy-buddy" attitude. In just one case, Miyamoto orders Hiroki to rape Sachiko...when Hiroki freaks and refuses, Miyamoto proceeds to beat him bloody.

As Sachiko's twin sister Miki tries to get various detectives involved in her sister's disappearance, Miyamoto continues to try to corrupt Hiroki and Takashi, successfully making the latter subservient to him....of course, when Takashi accidentally nearly lets Sachiko escape due to clumsiness, coupled with some other minor failures? Miyamoto savagely beats the boy with a golf club to death, to which he promptly gets annoyed and proclaims "Guess we'll have to move the body...put it in my car, but put down a cloth or something, I don't wanna stain my rug."

Dumping Takashi's body, and forcing Hiroki to help him all the way, Miyamoto learns that Hiroki has begun considering to flee the city...Miyamoto responds by tracking him down, brutalizing him, then promising that, if he doesn't fall in line, Miyamoto will burn the boy's house down, with his single mother inside.

Miyamoto keeps Sachiko as his prisoner for twelve days, keeping her starved, dehydrated, and chained to a bed as he regularly hurts her....he also has a nasty habit of "joking"with her that her father, mother, or sister have died in some freak accident or at Miyamoto's hands, only to giddily laugh at her despair while proclaiming "Just joking!"....when Sachiko nearly escapes, Miyamoto punishes her by splashing her with lighter fluid then setting parts of her body on her fire.

Soon enough, Miyamoto's old gang boss, Furuta, who himself is disgusted by Miyamoto's brutality and what he has done to Sachiko, teams with Miki and breaks into Miyamoto's hideout, seeking to rescue Sachiko.

Miyamoto surprises the duo, beating Furuta with a baseball bat then confronting Miki as she tries to save her twin....Miyamoto promptly attempts to beat them both to death with his baseball bat, planning to end his "problems" and dispose of their bodies afterwards.

Luckily, one of the detectives Miki has been working with shows up and arrests Miyamoto and his gang, and Sachiko, though horribly scarred both physically and mentally, survives the ordeal and is reunited with her sister....in the end, Miyamoto is confronted by his lawyer with the fact that, since Sachiko has lived, Miyamoto won't receive the death penalty, but will likely be locked away for the rest of his life.

Miyamoto proclaims how happy he is that Sachiko is alive, leading his lawyer to realize that Miyamoto really isn't a vicious monster, just some kid who made a bad choice and now regrets it.

....cue Miyamoto grinning to himself and mumbling "Yeah, good thing she's alive...Now I won't get the death penalty!"

Douche.

As an aside, there's also a slight implication that he might have been behind the murders of any elderly couple in his neighborhood, but it isn't ever confirmed.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Ah, no. Miyamoto is a psychopathic bully who, despite his "chummy" attitude, is truly just masking a raging sadism. He's got a bit of a glimpse of Used to Be a Sweet Kid, but nothing is actually brought out of it except as a plot device to turn some suspicion off of him.

Miyamoto seems to be friends with several members of his gang and such, but he never hesitates to brutally beat them for the slightest of mistakes or perceived insults.

He also continuously claims throughout the manga that he's going to let Sachiko go, and will sometimes scold her attempts to escape by proclaiming "I was about to let you go, but now you've made me mad!", but this really isn't played as anything but him manipulating Sachiko and his buddies into thinking that he's not, you know, a complete loon.

Heinousness?

Now, this story has...several people who are complicit in Sachiko's kidnapping. Be it active collaborators like Miyamoto's Dragons, or those just too gripped by fear to do anything like Hiroki (The cowardly weasel), there are a solid half dozen people besides Miyamoto who are presented as having some responsibility for Sachiko's ordeal.

But even still? Miyamoto easily clears the bar here. He's the mastermind of the whole ordeal and is keeping everyone who assists him under his thumb through fear, and has more extra crimes than any other character.

In laymen's terms? While numerous characters are scum, Miyamoto is the only purely evil one alongside his two Dragons, and he outdoes them in heinousness.

Final Verdict?

Keeper, I'd say. Not too many crimes/victims, but for a normal drama where what he does has an extra nasty and petty edge to it, I'd say he counts.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#106144: Jan 13th 2018 at 6:01:43 PM

Alright, so here's another DemonDuckOfDoom suggestion that I watched recently. I will get around to Kit's writeup eventually, but I'm really trying to devote this semester to my studies so my transcripts will look good.

What is the work?

Patchwork is a 2015 horror-comedy (perhaps with a bit more emphasis on the comedy) about three women who were killed, cut apart, and sewn together by a Herbert West expy by the name of Tom Blake. Now they're out for revenge against the men responsible for their condition. But the candidate is not who you think it is.

Who is Madeleine? What has she done?

Madeleine is one of the three women that made up Blake's Frankenstein monster. Even before their rampage, she was a serial killer insecure about her appearance. We were never given any real indication about this before one of the eight chapters, where she's revealed to have a fridge full of severed human limbs. This scene is shown when she is having a friendly chat with someone on the phone, giggling frequently, and she tells the person on the other end that she has to "go let her dog out". She opens the door to the basement, and we see her "dog": it's a man who's been tied up with duct tape, and it's obvious that she plans to finish him off.

She meets with Blake, and agrees to undergo his surgery, and gets a free private tour of his lab. Her response? Is to agree to not only get started, but to start providing bodies herself. And so she stalks the two other parts of Blake's creation, Jennifer and Ellie, at the local bar, Vick's. She follows Jennifer home and kills her with a bat, and hits Ellie with a van. Once Blake has their bodies, he cuts them apart, then gases Madeleine unconscious before going to work on her.

Once the creation reaches Blake's lab, Ellie and Jennifer try to confront and kill him, only for Madeleine to try and take control and persuade them to spare him, saying that he needs to complete the surgery. When they both refuse, Madeleine gets in a fight with Jennifer and tries to kill her. Ellie then takes a drill to their collective brains, lobotomizing Madeleine and thus neutralizing her.

Mitigating factors?

Affably Evil? Faux Affably Evil. She's able to play along with the two other women she shares her body with, and hides behind an introverted but adorkable demeanor.

Agency Here's one thing that may cause a bit of an issue: when Madeleine is applying for the surgery and answering Blake's questions, she confirms having a history of mental illness. However, her demeanor and narcissism suggest she is likely operating of her own volition. She willingly agrees to kill people to supply bodies to Blake, and has a pretty clear sadistic streak, as well as the ability to lie effectively when she feels she has to.

Even Evil Has Loved Ones? The other two women are nothing more than extensions of herself so she feels less insecure (though she does try to prove a point to them about just how friendless they were, but it's obvious she's just trying to win them over so they can surrender); she only tries to spare Blake so that he can complete the surgery. In other words, no. Though she does tell another character — who she hinted at finding attractive — to be quiet as he bleeds out from a gunshot wound.note 

Even Evil Has Standards? No, pretty much everything is about her, and she could care less about anything other than her own appearance. Although she (apparently) and Jennifer did object to eating the flesh of their victims when Ellie brought it up.

Freudian Excuse? She's insecure about her appearance. And so she kills and dismembers people. That's literally it. About on par with Emeric Balasco's motive.

Generic Doomsday Villain? See above.

Heinous standard Okay, so here's the second possible issue: Tom Blake is the one responsible for this creation in the first place, and as such, he can be held accountable for all the deaths it left in its wake. And he's also made a few such other creations, though it's unclear if these were made from people he murdered. But Madeleine was a serial killer to begin with, and she, like the other two women, has enough say in what they do to be responsible for their murders (including a few who may have been oblivious to what Blake was doing) by proxy. Also, Tom can't count by virtue of being too genuinely chipper.

Offstage Villainy? Yes, we only see the limbs of her previous victims, but we also see a still-living one that about to be killed tied up in her basement. And we also get to see her kill Jen and Ellie.

Played for Laughs? Here's the final issue I see. I'll say the short answer is "no", but the long answer is that this is dominantly a comedy with horror overtones. However, that was also the case with Deadpool (except replace "horror" with "action"), and that had Ajax. She isn't as Laughably Evil as Tom (yes, I know that Laughably Evil and Played for Laughs are two different things), and her madness generally comes across as being played a lot more seriously than his.

Verdict

I'd say keep. Her "comforting" Garrett towards the end could be seen as Faux Affably Evil, although I am uncertain about the whole cannibalism bit.

edited 13th Jan '18 6:07:11 PM by Stellarvore

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#106145: Jan 13th 2018 at 6:17:42 PM

Yes to Miyamoto, yes to Madeleine. Except a candidate from me tonight as well.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#106146: Jan 13th 2018 at 6:33:45 PM

[tup] Miyanoto and Madeleine. The cannibalism thing sounds closer to thinking it's icky than any moral objections.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#106149: Jan 13th 2018 at 7:56:13 PM

[tup] (Shigeru) Miyamoto and Madeleine

edited 13th Jan '18 7:57:06 PM by MenInGreyToBlak

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#106150: Jan 13th 2018 at 7:59:03 PM

[tup]Miyamoto and Madeleine.

Why so serious?

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