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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#105876: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:58:00 PM

[up][up] It was only imminent.

Yes to Dis.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#105877: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:20:51 PM

[tup] Angela, [tup] Maletoth

The Bucelarii candidates are going along really well, so now its time for the final two effortposts, all from the same book.

What Is the Work?

Gateway to the Past, the third book in the series. After defeating Toramin and Garanis, Hunter takes the child Hailen, son of the deceased head Beggar Priest, with him on his quest to find his memories. Along the way, he rides on a caravan to his destination up north through the desert, only for the ride to be ambushed by a group of thieves led by…

Who Is he?

Il Seytani (which means “The Diabolical” in Turkish), the bandit king of the Sah’raa Advent area, is not an Abiarazi, but an ordinary human.

What has he done?

As leader of the bandits, Il Seytani has his thieves go around the land and find any caravan they see, where they slaughter the adults, kidnap the children, and steal whatever possessions (such as weapons) they have in order to sell them, burning everything when they’re done. The children themselves are put in a cage where they are abused, whipped, and sold into slavery.

His people do this to Hunter and his caravan people, where many are killed trying to fight them, and all the kids are taken away, including Hailen. Hunter heads out to search for the thieves and retrieve Hailen. When he arrives, he sees loads of kids in an enclosed space being whipped. Il Seytani shows up and tells Hunter that he wants to work with him, seeing him as a powerful weapon, and that when he stops being useful, he’ll kill him. Hunter requests Hailen back, only for Seytani to laugh at him and threaten to kill the kid if Hunter refuses to work with him. When Hunter agrees to his offer, Seytani makes him his assassin. He tasks Hunter to kill the king of Al Hani, al-Malek, and bring back his ring as proof. Without al-Malek, Seytani’s reign of terror among the land will remain unchecked, allowing him to traverse through the entire desert without any law enforcement to stop him.

He has his second-in-command Younis ride along with Hunter and act as his eyes and ears, mainly due to not completely trusting Hunter to complete the task by himself. He gives Hunter a deadline of about four days (while Hunter usually takes about a week to plan these types of missions out). This doesn’t really matter, since no matter how fast Hunter completes his mission, Seytani still plans to have Younis and company kill him after he completes his job.

At the book’s climax, Hunter kills Younis and heads back to Seytani’s camp to take back Hailen. He finds Hailen being tortured in a cage with people poking sticks at him. After Hunter frees Hailen and sets the camp on fire as revenge for what they did to him, Seytani sends his war band to take Hunter out, with Seytani riding with them. As Hunter slaughters his troops, Seytani ducks away from the carnage and holds Hailen hostage after the battle’s over (Hunter even calls him a coward). He then taunts Hunter about how he sold all the children from his caravan to slavery. And when Hunter finally kills the bastard, Seytani jabs his iron dagger into Hunter, causing him to be poisoned and almost die due to having no more bodies, besides Hailen, to cure himself (Hunter uses a special soul-sucking knife to heal himself of any wounds or poisons by taking the soul of someone else; without any bodies, Hunter was almost done for. Thankfully he gets better due to Hailen’s sudden magic abilities).

Redeeming Qualities?

None. While he claims in the final battle that he wants to kill Hunter for killing his men, the fact that he’s willing to let them die just to save his own skin shows him to be a hypocrite.

Heinousness?

He’s the worst person in the book, and the first human candidate. While not having the body count of The Demon or Toramin, he still manages to do a lot of terrible stuff despite being an ordinary, mortal human. He even manages to pass the story's actual Abiarazi Big Bad in terms of evil.

Conclusion

He’s the worst human villain in the series so far, so I think he’s a keep.

edited 10th Jan '18 1:26:45 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#105878: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:20:57 PM

[tup] Demon, [tup] Toramin, [tup] Angela, [tup] Maletoth.

And what the hell, [tup] Dis (ironic since his video game incarnation doesn't count despite Adaptational Villainy).

edited 10th Jan '18 1:21:15 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#105880: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:28:06 PM

[tup]Il Seytani

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#105882: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:00:38 PM

[tup] Il Seytani.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#105883: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:30:25 PM

I've got to go to work in a few minutes, so here's the final Bucelarii effortpost for a candidate that I'm curious to see how people will react to. Sorry about the effortpost spamming btw. Just very excited to share these.

What Is the Work?

Gateway to the Past, the third book in the series. At this point in the story, Hunter joins with Queen Asalah, co-ruler of Al Hani along with al-Malek, and an Abiarazi demon herself, mainly to get close enough to “kill” the king (which Hunter doesn’t plan on doing, instead using a potion that will fake the king’s death). But while Asalah doesn’t count due to have some slight Noble Demon tendencies and a lesser body count compared to Toramin and The Demon, one of her partners is an interesting fellow.

Who Is he?

Captain Al-Zahar, one of Asalah’s Co-Dragons, along with Saima, is the head of security for the king and queen, and is later revealed to have helped Asalah with her plan to assassinate king al-Malek and seize power. Once the king’s dead, Asalah will shapeshift into the king, where she’ll start a war between the surrounding kingdoms in order to bring back Kharna.

What has he done?

Al-Zahar, while starting off as a strict, somewhat Hot-Blooded person who often mocks the Hunter, is revealed to be completely aware of the fact that he’s working with a demon, and the fact that she plans on starting a massive war between the kingdoms. To the people of Al Hani, he appears to be a hero who works for the kingdom, but in reality, he wants Asalah to kill the king and usurp the throne for herself.

The reason why he wants to work for Asalah is because he can’t stand how al-Malek brought peace and tranquility to Al Hani, with the book describing him as “a warrior in a kingdom plagued by peace.” With Asalah planning on starting a war, he wants in on that, where he will have fun killing and leading his armies into battle.

I repeat: He, a human, is willing to allow demons to take over his city and enslave/murder countless members of his own kind just so he can engage in battle and have fun killing people.

When Hunter is tasked to kill al-Malek, he is forced to have Al-Zahar by his side. Al-Zahar kills the king’s Royal Guards, his own men, without any guilt. When Asalah later “accomplishes” her goals, she takes the form of al-Malek and orders Hunter to kill Saima, her loyal follower, and pose her body to look like the Queen. Al-Zahar walks over to Saima, holds her down, and strikes the back of her head. When Hunter refuses to kill her, Asalah orders Al-Zahar to kill Saima, where he proceeds to stab her skull with his knife and burn her corpse. When Hunter refuses Asalah’s offer to serve with her, she sends out Al-Zahar to kill him, which he tries to do. In return, he gets his hand chopped off, and has his soul taken by Hunter via his magic knife.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. While he does do what Asalah says, he’s doing it just so he can get what he promised: destruction and murder. His loyalty to Asalah makes him more of a Psycho Supporter, than someone who actually likes her or believes in her demonic beliefs. And while he at first feels some guilt over killing the Royal Guards, he negates this sole redeeming quality by saying that feeling guilt over killing his people doesn’t matter.

Heinousness?

While not having the resources of Il Seytani, Queen Asalah, or any of the other villains, the fact that he’s a human willing to side with a demon and do her dirty work in return for killing till his heart’s content makes him really terrible. This crime also makes him the only human in the series so far to do this, with the humans serving The Bloody Hand and Order of Midas unaware that they were working for a demon.

Conclusion

I think he just passes the mark.

edited 10th Jan '18 2:31:17 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#105884: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:05:50 PM

[tup] Seytani

Gonna wait for others' opinions on Zahar.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#105885: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:13:44 PM

[tup] Angela, Maletoth, the Demon, Toramin, Seytani, and Dis. Not sure on Al-Zahar.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#105886: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:18:38 PM

[tup] Seytani; not sure of the other.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#105887: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:19:21 PM

@ Dis: Isn't the ice he's imprisoned formed by tears of remorse that he can't undo what he did?

It always came off as weird to me that the anime has a bunch of CM but the core game series has none, despite the anime being Lighter and Softer in comparison. This is probably the main reason why people wanted Ghetsis to qualify.

DustSnitch Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#105888: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:32:03 PM

[up] It isn't explicit if Satan's tears are of pain or remorse, but considering he later appears as a snake attempting to invade Purgatory, tears of pain are the most likely.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#105889: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:38:41 PM

His appearance in Inferno isn't his last? I did not know that.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#105890: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:47:56 PM

[tup] Seytani, [tup] Demon, [tup] Toramin, [tup] Angela, [tup] Maletoth

@CLOVIS: We're already off the subject of Anime!Faba. In no way does he qualify for this trope.

edited 10th Jan '18 3:51:12 PM by ANewMan

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#105892: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:03:28 PM

I've a question about the Bucelarii candidates. Two of the candidates are part of this race called Abiarazi which seems to be stand-in for demons. I’m generally warry of candidates who are demons or vampires or other supernatural creates because they are often portrayed as being Made of Evil. From what I’ve read so far all Abiarazi are bastards who hate humans and the hero is also part demon with his demon side trying to turn him evil. This seems to imply that implies to me that being evil is just their nature. So are there any good Abiarazi in the books? Or at least one who don’t want to murder (or enslave, or torture… you get the point) all humans aka an Abiarazi who has standards?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#105893: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:11:27 PM

Alright, so... I've got sort of a weird one today...

What's the setting?

It's King Lear! ...except rewritten in 1681 by one Nahum Tate who decided to respond to audience criticism that the original play was way too dark and not very marketable by throwing in a token romance and a happy ending. Not at all a butchery of the original play, no sirree (but the public liked it — enough so to keep this version of the play the one that was shown in theaters for one-hundred-and-fifty years).

So... for the people who don't know the setting? King Lear is a famous Shakespearean tragedy focusing around the titular King Lear. To relieve himself of the actual duties of being a monarch, Lear divides in three his kingdom to go to his daughters, Goneril, Reagan, and Cordelia. His common sense... long eroded due to being in his advance age with telltale signs of dementia creeping up on him, Lear lets his raging ego get in the way of a good decision and banishes Cordelia when she doesn't suck up to his ego to receive her more opulent third of the kingdom, and she goes alongside Lear's madly faithful servant Kent. Cordelia's banishment? Eventually spirals into a turn of events, with the machinations of Lear's own ambitious daughters throwing ven more of a wrench into the gears, leading to Lear thrown out of his own estate and left to blindly wander in a storm with the consequences of his actions while Britain is caught in a violent war between nations with the throne vacant. Now, the true villain of the play? Is Edmund the Base, the bastard child of the Earl of Gloucester and brother of the noble Edgar, who doesn't count for a few reasons in the original play... namely repenting on his deathbed and trying in vain to repeal his last action. This doesn't go through and everyone but Edgar, Kent — who's going to kill himself anyways — and the Duke of Albany are alive. Miserable times for everyone.

Of course, Lear being as tragic as it was sort of castrated its audience reception, so Nahum Tate rewrote the play to appeal more to a general audience with the first showing in 1681. Retitled The History of King Lear, Tate's take on the play rewrote almost everything, cut out 800 lines from the original, excised the King of France to instead make a romance with Cordelia and Edgar, made everyone survive so it was a happy ending... and excised all of Edmund's redeeming traits while making him a fair bit nastier too. We're here to talk about this case of Adaptational Villainy.

Who is Edmund the Bastard? What has he done?

So... opening up this version of the play, Edmund proclaims openly his schemes to dispose of his noble, legitimate brother, the kind-hearted Edgar who's "nature is so far from doing wrongs that he suspects none" to gain the inherit the throne of his well-meaning but kind-of doddering father the Earl of Gloucester. Having manipulated his father into distrusting Edgar from the start, Edmund furthers his schemes by forging a note supposedly written by his brother proclaiming his intention to betray his father and give Edmund half of the resultant riches. Edmund assumes the role of horrified, devoted child and delivers to Gloucester, who vows to tear out his traitorous son's heart... much to Edmund's delight. After this? Edmund gets Edgar out of the scene for the time being by making him believe his angry father is out for his blood (which he... sort of is, but Edmund's twisted the truth, of course), forcing Edgar to go on the run into self-imposed exile.

Now, we've been hitting many of the same beats so far — albeit, Edmund is deliberately portrayed as less sympathetic and more two-dimensional and card-carrying, with his lament over being a bastard now twisted into a basic "he gets more than me so I'm going to kill both him and my father" — and Edmund is of course welcomed and honored for "exposing" his treacherous brother, and he's also won the hearts of the depraved sisters Goneril and Regan, who compete for his vile heart. Exalting in his victory, Edmund decides he wants even more... and this is where he gets especially vile, completely diverging from the original play. See, Edmund is smitten by the pure-hearted Cordelia and decides he wants to soothe the "hopeless fire kindling" in his heart. To do this? Edmund disguises himself and hires two debase thugs to corner and subdue her, whereupon Edmund plans to rape her himself with the fierce noises of the storm outside deafening her screams. Thankfully, when the ruffians take Cordelia, Edgar — in the disguise of an insane peasant — drives them off with his quarterstaff.

Unsatisfied and clearly bitter about his chance to lose Cordelia from his vicious lust, Edmund decides he wants to become Earl faster and trumps up charges of treachery to Gloucester, having his father captured, interrogated, and tortured by Regan and the Duke of Cornwall with his eyes put out. Now the Earl, Edmund seduces both Regan and Goneril to use for his own ends, at the same time Britain is plunged into war as a result of Lear being kicked out of the throne, with intent to exploit the Duke of Albany as well. With Cordelia and Lear captured and with ambitions now set on the throne of Britain itself, Edmund coldly orders both Lear and Cordelia to hang before Edgar finally doffs his disguise and exposes Edmund's treachery. Unwilling to simply let himself be arrested and executed, Edmund engages Edgar in one final pivotal duel which ends with Edmund fatally wounded... now, at this point in the play? Edmund, in a fit of remorse, uses his dying words to pardon Lear and Cordelia. Not so here — Edmund remains spiteful and unrepentant to his last breath, proclaiming himself a libertine unhindered by his conscience to the very end. As said, though? Cordelia, Lear, and even Gloucester are spared their deaths in this version, Edgar and Cordelia marry, and "Truth and Vertue shall at last succeed."

Bleh.

Any mitigating factors?

So... Edmund in the original King Lear by Shakespeare is a very interesting case. He arguably manages to meet the heinous standard by engineering the banishment of his own brother, the horrendous torture of his own father, and ordering the execution of Lear and the virtuous Cordelia all in the name of power. Edmund, though? Has debatably sympathetic motivations (there's a lot of leg room for Alternative Character Interpretation... on one hand, Edmund being shafted of the right to inherit the throne and being made second banana by his father simply due to being illegitimate can be seen as a sympathetic motive, but on the other, Edmund still enjoys a luxurious seat of nobility when any lesser man probably would've faced much worse for the conditions of his birth, meaning he can also be seen as nothing more than an envious, manipulative monster) and he also has some root of conflict and conscience with him, lamenting his own bastardly heritage and this inspiring him to evil (do keep in mind the Values Dissonance as well... this is the same era that judged characters like Aaron and Shylock the villains because they were black or Jewish or what-have-you).

At the end, this crisis of conscience and his ultimate failure to maintain the power he's gotten for his ill means gets the better of Edmund and he resolves to make his last act one that serves others instead of himself... with the tragedy of this being that it turns out for nothing and Edmund's death being portrayed as decidedly sympathetic. Edmund is a nuanced figure, closer to the trope that figures like Shylock or Macbeth but ultimately not a qualifier.

...in the Tate version? Literally all of that is thrown out the window and Edmund is basically just made a bastard Snidely Whiplash; monologues about how evil he is whenever he has a free moment, with none of the sympathetic undertones of the original character — his being a bastard is made much more of him just being envious of Edgar getting what he doesn't and resolving to destroy him to this end — while deliberately excising Edmund's final, remorseful pardoning and making him even worse due to the addition of stuff like the attempted rape. Edmund here is almost a caricature of the original with no positive or redeeming traits in the slightest — his proclamation at the end is "conscience, what have I to do with thee? I was born a libertine, and so I keep me!" — fitting right in with the simplified nature of what really was a very complex play. But, whatever. Edmund, here? I think easily fits the qualifications for the trope with this in mind.

Conclusion?

I'd say keep him. It's an insult to the original play, but we're not here to judge quality.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Apr 7th 2019 at 8:32:21 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#105894: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:17:09 PM

[tup] Edmund. "engineering the banishment of his own brother, the horrendous torture of his own father, and ordering the execution of Lear and the virtuous Cordelia"...not the MOST heinous, but considering the relative heinous standard? Probably JUST passes (plus this one also has the attempted rape).

edited 10th Jan '18 4:22:55 PM by ACW

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#105896: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:24:11 PM

Yes to Edmund. Discounting alternate interpretations of religious texts, myths, legends and the like, is this, dare I say, one of the earliest examples of a Fix Fic in history? Granted it didn't really fix anything but still: you know what I mean.

edited 10th Jan '18 4:24:46 PM by FriedWarthog

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#105897: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:28:45 PM

I see it as more the early version of an executive looking at, say, Guillermo del Toro's pitch for At The Mountains of Madness, thinking it isn't marketable, and saying "hey, you know what this needs? A forced romance! And a happy ending! And a fucking PG-13 rating!"

...this play is horrid. The rewrite, mind you.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#105898: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:28:53 PM

[tup] to Sho'Tokh, The Demon of Voramis, Angela, Lord Toramin, Dis (I agree with everyone that is a welcome surprise), Maletoth, ll Seytani and Captain Al-Zahar (its close but I think he just makes the mark considering his destructive end goal, lack of resources, unique position and utterly cruel and selfish motivation).

I'll abstain on Edmund. Considering he is hands down my favourite Shakespearean Villain, all I can say is...why?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#105899: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:31:03 PM

'Yes' to Dis, Edmund, and Seytani.

Also have three things to note in regards to the Discussion Dates page....first off, I do believe the series Blood Blockade Battlefront has passed the time allotment to discuss. Lighty, 43110 (If you're still here), there anyone worth discussing?

Second, I completely forgot about this, but I had reserved Minecraft Story Mode Season 2 for discussion, and....no one counts. The Big Bad, the Admin, was...rather shockingly pretty damn heinous and monstrous for most of the game, and would have easily counted were it not for the ridiculous and insane Heel–Face Turn he made for....reasons. So yeah.

Finally, I'mma swoop on in and reserve the upcoming Steins;Gate 0 anime. The VN has been out for some time, but I've been avoiding any spoilers or discussion on it, so there could be a Keep there already (Or not). But I would like to keep an eye on the anime and save discussion on it until said series ends if that's alright with everyone, and any who are looking for a collab are free to hit me up over PM.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#105900: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:51:43 PM

So regarding the discussion dates, I have an embarrassing confession to make. I reserved season 2 of a show that I really liked and planned to discuss it whenever it aired last year, but despite my best efforts of keeping up with news regarding the release date, not much was revealed for half the year and at that point I had given up hope, and assumed the series had cancelled.

...only to realize today the entirety of the season aired at the end of last year without me ever knowing (and actually got cancelled in the process. Yay...) Meaning that I missed the discussion date for season 2 of Dirk Gently and legitimately forgot it was happening.

This is embarrassing to admit, but it looks like any potential Season 2 qualifiers, like Slur, are gonna be put on the back burner until I marathon the entire season on BBC America's website. I have no idea if anyone here actually watched the show or really cares considering how relatively obscure it is, but still. Real sorry about losing track of a discussion date like that.


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