During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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I don't think the heinous standard in Wallace And Gromit is as high as South Park.
to Aerys
Wait we many Complete Monster that happen to have Laughably Evil moments.
edited 3rd Jan '18 7:48:04 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff@username
Eh...not quite. A character can be played for comedy a lot and still be a CM if the heinous crimes themselves are treated seriously. For example, Joker from Batman the Animated series was beaten up comedically by Harley Quinn when he tried to replace her, narrowly avoided getting beaten up comedically by Harley Quinn when she found out that Joker sold out her attempt to escape Arkham Asylum in hopes he could get time off, got spanked by a comedy show host, was at one point living in a crappy apartment where he was behind on rent, and took a hiatus from doing any crime when Harley was gone because he couldn't find his socks. He was played for comedy plenty of times, and I'm certain he's not going anywhere anytime soon.
edited 3rd Jan '18 7:16:50 PM by Awesomekid42
Bakewell is... probably one I'd have to say no on. I saw the film years ago when it first came out and I don't really agree with the sentiment that she (or anything in the series, really) that she's ultimately played heinous enough.
Those last moments aren't redeeming in the slightest, though. That's another classic case of a hero mourning a villain without the villain's actual death being played as sympathetic, in the slightest. Yea to fic!Aeyrs.
edited 3rd Jan '18 7:21:18 PM by Scraggle
- The City Of Never: The 'Consultant', real name Lucia, is a member of the ancient, godlike race of Daydreamers who serves the Eldritch Abomination imprisoned being Lord Draynak. Having been exiled by her own people for her cruelty and wickedness, Lucia allied with Draynak to use him as a way to get revenge. Seeking a child of the bloodline of the race of Seers, Lucia takes countless guises, manipulating endless bloodshed and pain so she can find a necessary host for Draynak. Using monsters from the other worlds to annihilate entire towns and villages, Lucia takes potential hosts and infests them with leechlike creatures in a horrific violation that inevitably results in their deaths. When she found a suitable host, a 13 year old girl, Lucia murdered her, intending on double crossing Draynak the entire time. Having found a suitable host in one hero Daniel's daughter Crystal, Lucia took great delight in agonizingly infecting her, murdering their friend Christian when he attempted to attack her. Later attempting to torture Crystal's sister to death, Lucia reveals she has always intended to annihilate all that lives as punishment for her humiliation, viewing everything below her as a toy to torture.
Having just watched the Wallace and Gromit short (it was excellent by the way), I... stand by my
. Piella's crimes are played serious enough to count, especially her abuse of Fluffy. While she can be humorous, this is mostly due to her psychosis, making her Laughably Evil in my eyes.
edited 3rd Jan '18 8:32:24 PM by JoeBlitz
"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."I will forever stand by the opinion that Wallace and Gromit: Curse of the Wererabbit is one of the most overlooked gems of animated film. That movie is amazing.
Alrighty, at the cost of a few hours sleep and all that menial stuff, I've got us an effortpost that's been a long time coming.
Now, this is gonna be my longest effortpost yet by a considerably margin....apologies to all for said length, but it's rather required to get the full grasp of the character we're discussing.
Without further ado? Let's begin. And let's do try to focus solely on the show and character in question rather than the....controversies around them, shall we?
What's the work?
House Of Cards is a 2013 Netflix Original series, adapted from the UK miniseries of the same name (Sort of).
Frank Underwood is a Democratic Congressman navigating the twisty-turny ways of politics in Washington, D.C. alongside with his wife Claire. In his latest bid, Frank has worked to get one Garret Walker elected as President of the United States, having been promised the position of Secretary of State by Walker in return for Frank's support.
Unfortunately for everyone, Walker goes back on his word and leaves Frank in Congress, using the (Actually solid) reasoning that Frank is better as Democratic House Whip than he would be as Secretary of State.
Frank doesn't see it this way, and thus begins a spiral downwards into corruption, murder, and monstrosity....as Frank sets his sights on revenge and power.
Who is he?
Francis J. "Frank" Underwood is the Villain Protagonist Big Bad of the series.
With his slick Southern drawl and the charm of a snake, Frank has made his way in politics after a rough younger life, and now seeks to gain as much political and personal power as possible. Regularly addressing the audience with fourth wall breaks (It's a lot cooler and gripping than it sounds), Frank clues us in on his plans and inner thoughts as he crawls his way up the ladder in Washington, thus giving us our series.
What has he done?
(Quick note here: Frank commits a buttload of crimes. He manipulates people at LEAST once an episode, and ruins the careers/lives of others every other episode, so I'mma try to just stick with the major stuff for him and the show)
Frank is introduced as his neighbor's dog is hit by a car. Sending one of his security officers to fetch said neighbors, Frank proceeds to strangle the dog to death, and while some might think it's a Mercy Kill at first, this is quickly quashed when he follows it up by proclaiming "There are two kinds of pain. The sort of pain that makes you strong, or useless pain. The sort of pain that's only suffering. I have no patience for useless things."
Having recently worked his hardest to get Democratic nominee Garret Walker elected as president, Frank is stunned when he is informed that Walker wants him to remain House Whip rather than granting him the position of Secretary of State.
Angry and dejected despite Walker's promises that it's nothing personal and that they are still friends, Frank begins scheming with his wife Claire to get back at Walker and secure himself a new position of power.
Before he gets into his schemes, Frank bails Congressman Peter Russo out of jail for drunk driving and prostitute solicitation on the night it happens before any media can cover it, proclaiming that he now "owns" Russo lest Frank bring this information to light.
Secondly, Frank meets up with young Intrepid Reporter Zoe Barnes (KATE MARA, MEOW!) and makes a deal with her to supply her with leaks and info from inside the White House, and thus uses her to leak sensitive information about his enemies throughout the series. Though at first he requests nothing in return, Frank eventually begins soliciting sex from Zoe, with the entire "relationship" being creepy and darn-near abusive on Frank's part.
Now, to kick things off for Frank's schemes...Frank first targets the man who is currently seeking the position of Secretary of State in Frank's place, Michael Kern. Finding a column in Kern's old college newspaper for which he was the editor that was FILLED with racist, hate-filled propaganda, Frank tracks down one of Kern's old college mates and bribes him into lying that Kern wrote the article, skewering public opinion of Kern and dropping his career into the mud. Frank then shifts pieces until he gets his "friend" Catherine Durant elected as Secretary of State.
In the meantime, Frank is commissioned by President Walker to assist one Donald Blythe in Walker's Education Bill, a bill that will assist in getting school teachers higher salaries and whatnot. Frank intentionally sabotages the Bill as he leaks Blythe's terrible first draft of the Bill to Zoe, who then publishes it. With Blythe humiliated, Frank oh-so-kindly steps in to take over, and promptly hands the Bill off to a bunch of interns to rework. Frank also quite literally keeps them locked in a single room and refuses to let them leave until they succeed.
Desiring to get the Bill passed so as to make himself look better while simultaneously screwing over the teachers it is supposed to be helping, Frank learns that he will get more Congressional votes if he can get a Naval base in Pennsylvania shut down. Knowing that Peter Russo has a heavy hand in keeping the base open, Frank blackmails the man with his DUI to force him to work towards shutting down the Naval base, leading to hundreds of people losing their jobs. Russo falls into depression from the seething hatred those people now have for him, and confesses this to Frank in a drunken stupor. Frank promptly hands Russo a razor blade and offers him a choice: Pathetically kill himself, or let Frank assist him in becoming Governor of Pennsylvania.
Russo snaps out of it at this, and Frank assists him in overcoming his alcoholism and becoming a runner for Governor of Pennsylvania, and though it takes a HELLTON of work, Russo becomes a solid candidate.
However....Frank's got other plans, as he hires the prostitute Rachel Posner to seduce Russo and get him horribly drunk, ruining his sobriety, the night before he is doing a radio interview, which he promptly ruins and embarrasses himself with due to his drunkenness. Now completely humiliated, Russo drops out of the race, leaving the spot for the Democratic running for Governor of Pennsylvania completely vacant.
Frank later orders his Chief of Staff, Douglas Stamper, to get rid of Rachel, which Doug (Eventually) followd through on by running the girl down.
Manipulating Vice President Jim Matthews, who was once Governor of Pennsylvania himself, into running for Pennsylvania Governor, Frank's machinations leave the spot for Vice President wide open....perfect for someone like Frank, coincidentally.
As Frank further manipulates Walker into offering him the Vice Presidency, he runs into a little problem...Russo, now a completely depressed, drunken mess, confides in Frank that he is feeling guilty for everything he did on Frank's orders, and wants to confess to everything. Unfortunately, this would kind of sort of ruin Frank's career, and so, convincing Russo to get even drunker, Frank locks him in a running car and closes him in a garage, killing Russo with carbon monoxide and framing it as a suicide.
Later, Frank is questioned by Zoe as to whether he...well, killed Peter Russo. Meeting her at a subway station, Frank denies the accusation...then promptly shoves Zoe onto the subway tracks, getting the girl run over and killing her (KATE MARA, NO!!!).
With THAT out of the way, Frank gets himself the Vice Presidency, and begins working with billionaires Raymond Tusk and Xander Feng, uncovering that they have been laundering money to the Democratic Party to control the party. Using this to his advantage, Frank slowly leaks this info out and frames President Walker as having been in on it. Offering Feng asylum in America should he rat out Tusk and get Walker implicated all while ruining Walker's relationship with his wife, Frank successfully gets Walker's presidency called into question and convinces him to resign...leaving the Presidency to Frank himself.
Now the flipping President of the United States, Frank begins firing and ruining the careers/lives of anyone who stood in his way throughout his career, and concocts a new Healthcare Bill called America Works, which would take away much of the Healthcare for the elderly and the like, getting more jobs for unemployed people. Oh, and he also goes back on the deal he made with Xander Feng, handing the man over to the Chinese government to be tortured and such. Lovely.
To gain respect and the like for himself in the eyes of the public, Frank visits the grave of his father alone....where he proceeds to piss all over it. Later, at a church, Frank talks with a priest about the meaning of power, and, approaching a crucifix, mocks the idea that Jesus or God offer love as the "ultimate" power, spitting on said crucifix. He also nearly gets crushed by the thing when it falls immediately after, so apparently God himself's got it out for Frank Underwood.
In a notably nasty bit, Frank is told by his military generals that they believe a terrorist is hiding out in a certain foreign village. Ordering an airstrike, Frank is shown live footage of the drones approaching, and sees small blips on the display screens of the village below. The following exchange then happens:
Frank: "Are those (dots)...children?"
General: "We...don't know, sir. It could—"
Frank: "Fire."
This makes a comment from Frank himself earlier in the show that he "despises children" even more vile....
Having the neighborhood wiped out, killing and maiming several innocent people in the process, Frank becomes more and more emotionally and physically controlling over his equally ruthless but MUCH more...conflicted wife Claire, culminating in Frank violently squeezing her throat and face, laying down a brutal "Reason You Suck" Speech, and proclaiming she is "nothing" without him. She leaves him for awhile, but they later "make up."
Doing deals with the Russian leader Viktor Petrov and continuing to work towards implementing America Works, Frank pulls all funding out of the Disaster Relief Fund, and plans to use it towards America Works...until a hurricane begins barreling towards the East Coast. Though Frank doesn't actually care about the thousands who could be killed, between the hurricane and the lack of relief the people will have, he is pressured by Congress and his advisors to shut down America Works and redirect the money back to the Disaster Relief Fund.
When learning that Lucas Goodwin, former sort-of boyfriend to Zoe Barnes, has been investigating her "accidental" death, Frank manipulates the man into hacking into a government database in search of evidence, then pulls numerous strings to make sure Lucas gets arrested and a LOT of prison time.
Awhile thereafter, Lucas gets out early by assisting the FBI in incriminating a prisoner even further, and attempts to assassinate Frank, succeeding only in getting himself killed and murdering Frank's longtime bodyguard Edward Meechum. Frank wastes no time in turning Meechum's death into an angle for his new Bill: Gun control.
Learning of the growing terrorist organization calling itself ICO, Frank makes numerous attempts to take the offensive and airstrike various possible ICO hideouts, but all meet with resistance from his allies. When two American ICO sympathizers take a small family hostage, Frank manages to convince them to release two of the hostages, then leaves the final one to die as the terrorists broadcast his beheading, with Frank wanting the country to become fearful and terrified of the possibility of a terrorist threat, thus enabling him to declare war on them and further increase the government's control.
Claiming that one of the two terrorists are on the run after the other was killed, Frank in actuality captures said "on the run" terrorist and has him brutally tortured and interrogated for more information on ICO. When the man gives them nothing, Frank has him executed and frames it like he was killed during a chase with the authorities, having video footage doctored of the event and released to the public so as to boost his approval ratings for taking down the terrorist.
Wanting to further stoke the flames of fear onto America, Frank forces the NSA hacker Aidan Macallan to launch a cyber attack onto Washington's transport systems, causing stop light shortages, phones to be hacked, and even a train derailing. Blaming the incident on ICO and fostering evermore fear into the people, Frank begins gearing up for the upcoming election day, where he hopes to get formally "elected" after spending nearly two years as just a stand-in after Walker's resignation.
Always the dirty player, Frank convinces several states to create heavily policed voting buildings, so as to make the public feel "safe" from ICO while out voting, and then fakes a bomb threat, inciting a riot that severely injures several people and causes a state to shut down its voting polls for the time being.
Now still President on the technicality, Frank further manipulates events until he manages to get reelected for real. Desiring to send troops onto foreign soil to get a hand on a massive oil reserve before any other world leaders can, Frank uses insider sources to learn that a group of terrorists are going to use Sarin gas to wipe out several civilian-populated locations in Syria.
Realizing he can use the attack as an excuse to send in troops, Frank allows said attack to happen, utterly horrifying the Secretary of State Catherine Durant. When Catherine, who has thus far been bullied and threatened by Frank—who notably threatened her with a letter opener once— later tries to work against Frank, and even implies that she might come forward with Frank allowing the Syrian massacre to take place, Frank shoves her down a flight of stairs, and though Catherine "only" ends up in a coma, Frank had killing intent.
Unfortunately for Frank, all of his past crimes do eventually catch him to him in one way or another, and, though at first convincing the ever-loyal Doug to take the fall for some of his crimes, Frank later announces he is resigning from the Presidency....at which point he reveals his grand master plan that he has had for quite some time. With him resigning, Frank's Vice President, his wife Claire, will take his place as President.
Once Claire is President, she can pardon Frank of his crimes, then he will rule from the shadows as her puppet master and control all of Washington from the private sector and by manipulating media and such. As he begins his new plans, Frank has one of his staff members, Leann, run off the road and seemingly killed after she showed signs of betrayal, and the hacker Aidan is found dead in his apartment in an apparent suicide, however....no gun was found at the scene. Right. "Suicide."
As Claire ascends to Presidency, Frank giddily awaits for her to pardon him live on TV as she promised him she would....buuuuut apparently tired of Frank's psychotic BS, Claire actually doesn't pardon him, and we last see Frank promising the audience that he's going to kill Claire for it, as he will now be no doubt arrested and locked away for the rest of his life for his horrific crimes.
And thus topples Frank Underwood's house of cards.
Frank makes numerous references to his childhood being a tough one, and there comes a scene where he tells this story to President Walker:
"When I was 13 I walked in on my father in the barn. There was a shotgun in his mouth. He waved me over, 'come here, Francis,' he said, 'pull the trigger for me.' Because he didn't have the courage to do it himself. I said 'no, pop' and walked out, knowing he would never find that courage. The next 7 years were hell for my father but even more hell for my mother and me. He made all of us miserable; drinking, despair, violence... My only regret in life is that I didn't pull that trigger. He would've been better off in the grave and we would have been better off without him."
This is pretty tragic, but....the issue here? Frank had earlier told us, the audience, that his father was a "quiet, timid man," who Frank despised for being a cowardly weakling who never accomplished anything, and whom Frank didn't know much. So while this story COULD have been true, numerous amounts of evidence indicates that it's not and that he's just using it to further manipulate the president.
Other than that, nothing solid. Frank may have indeed grew up in poverty and never had much, but not only does it not nearly justify why he does what he does, but he himself views it as necessary for him to learn how to survive in the world of power seeking.
Redeeming qualities?
Ok, this one is gonna take awhile, so just....bear with me. Rather interestingly, this is a sort of discussion that crops a LOT when it comes to House of Cards discussions.
To go ahead and get it out of the way, Frank has no well-intentioned goals or any of that crap. Frank wants power and to create a "legacy" so he will go down in history as a President who accomplished something great. So any and all seemingly benevolent acts he performs are just that: acts.
Now, Frank, in a rather unique bit for CM candidates, does seem to care about people. Namely, his wife Claire, his bodyguard Meechum, his Chief of Staff Doug, his former college roommate Tim, and his favorite restaurant owner Freddy. Let's go through all of these from "Least redeeming" to "Most redeeming," shall we?
First up is Doug. Doug is Frank's loyal Dragon who will do almost anything his boss asks of him without question. Thus, this makes Doug a great friend...but an even better tool. Frank seems genuinely appreciative of Doug and his loyalty, and indeed gets so pissed at one point that one of his political opponents has seemingly driven Doug to depressive drinking that Frank calls her up and angrily informs her that if she ever tries to hurt Doug again, Frank will put her in her grave. Of course, the fact that he was looking for a way to scare the woman to make her an easier target while coming off as justified helps.
The thing with Doug that makes Frank's appreciation of him easily explained away? Frank has zero problems throwing Doug under the bus when he stops being useful or is needed to take a fall. When Doug suffers a severe injury and is left doing physical therapy, Frank promises to pay for his expenses...but simultaneously informs him he's not needed anymore and goes about his business without checking on the man. When Doug DOES come back by proving his usefulness, Frank welcomes him and becomes chummy again....then shows his true colors once more when he orders Doug to take the fall for Frank's murder of Zoe Barnes. Frank SAYS he's going to get Claire to pardon him, but it's extremely obvious that it will be nothing but an afterthought to Frank getting pardoned then assuming power as Claire's guiding hand.
Next up, Edward Meechum, Frank and Claire's loyal bodyguard. Though at first treating Meechum like crap and nearly getting him fired from his job, Frank eventually realizes that Meechum is loyal to a fault, and then becomes far more welcoming to the man. This friendship builds and builds until finally, Frank and Claire have a threesome with Meechum (Threechum!), and they all seem very close to one another. Then Meechum gets shot dead while taking a bullet for Frank.
Frank seems affected by this....for about 5 seconds, before moving on and using Meechum's death as a boost to his political views, even placing flowers on Meechum's grave while having dozens of paparazzis take his picture for the occasion. He at one point has a nostalgic memory of himself and Meechum tracing their handprints on a wall, but instantly moves past this and never mentions or thinks about the man again.
Thirdly, Freddy Hayes. In the early seasons, Frank regularly went to Freddy's BBQ joint for solace and the greatest ribs he ever tasted. Frank treats Freddy as a friend, inviting him over to cook ribs for President Walker himself and even offering Freddy money to keep his business from going under (Something that was itself Frank's fault, mind, though it was more of a side effect to his other plans).
Heck, even when Freddy comes under scrutiny due to his criminal past, Frank still goes to see him in person despite his advisors' informing him that it's a bad idea. Upon seeing him, of course, Frank promptly tells Freddy that they will no longer be speaking or seeing each other ever again as it would tarnish Frank's reputation.
Later in the series, Frank as President manages to get Freddy a job working in the White House, however as Freddy realizes more and more that it was all Frank's fault that his business went under originally and that Frank isn't the guy to be associating with, he informs Frank he's gotten a new, better job in another city. Frank's response is "Tell you what, how about as a celebration you come on over to dinner and make me and Claire some of your famous ribs? Like old times."
Freddy gets pissed, as he finally calls Frank out on something that has been glaringly obvious as time goes on in various situations: Frank's first thought when Freddy gets an opportunity for a better life isn't "Wow, I'm happy for you, what a great thing!" but rather "Come over and cook me ribs."
Freddy proceeds to accuse Frank that he sees everyone around him, his own wife as well, as just parts of a "collection" and that he only cares what he can get from them. Frank at first seems stunned and tries to claim that he didn't mean it like Freddy thought, but by the end, Frank angrily informs Freddy that he should only call Frank "Mr. President" when he speaks to him and show him respect for everything Frank has done for him, and orders him to get out. He never thinks about or mentions Freddy again.
So yeah, thing with Freddy? Frank does seem to care about him....because he can cook ribs greatly. Even when Frank tries to give Freddy money to keep his BBQ joint afloat, it's treated as a sort-of genuine moment, but he immediately follows it up by informing the audience that he has no concern for Freddy or his business any longer.
Next, we've got Tim Corbet, Frank's former roommate and heavily implied sort-of lover. In a REALLY early episode, Frank goes to a reunion with his college mates, and, in a drunken stupor, has a heart to heart with Tim about their lives and such, and Frank seems to express curiosity as to what life would be like if he didn't pursue politics and power...he promptly shrugged this idea off, literally chunking a flyer of his old college he had been nostalgic over aside and going right back into his scheming without a moment of hesitation.
However, late in the series, Frank gets word that Tim has apparently died in a boating accident, and is...surprisingly cold about it, as though he expresses condolences to Tim's wife and is seen looking through photographs of Frank and Tim's time in college, he is largely stoic about the whole thing. Frank then begins preparing a fire and, after breaking his cold, smug demeanor to silently growl "Goddammit, Tim" in an upset tone" Frank quickly goes right back to his smug demeanor and burns every last picture and memory of Tim he has, remarking that a truly wise person uses what "garbage" they have to make a fire burn even hotter before flinging the photos into the flames. He never mentions or talks about Tim again.
With Tim, Frank seems to have cared for him in a way, but ultimately and literally "burns" his last connection to him after realizing that it's just "garbage" and that Tim doesn't matter anymore. He has a split second moment of fury that Tim died, but quickly shuts this down and finished erasing Tim from his life.
Finally, Claire Underwood, Frank's wife. In his own words, Frank "loves her like a shark loves blood," and throughout the series helps her with many of her pet projects and even allows her to have affairs on the side, as he knows he doesn't offer much in the way of "emotional" support seeing as he's a cold, callous SOB. They go jogging together, have chats about their day while sharing cigarettes, and often assist each other in one another's schemes.
Frank also has no love for those who hurt or humiliate Claire (Except himself, of course), as he flies into a rage and smashes a vase when he learns that the man he's about to be giving a medal for service in the military was the guy who raped Claire in college, and later expresses desire to murder Russian President Viktor Petrov when he forcibly kisses Claire.
So if there's one thing that disqualifies Frank, it's Claire. Though they are an extremely unorthodox couple, they are pretty much the epitome of Unholy Matrimony for a lot of the show.
However...this brings us to the "un" part of that trope. Frank is fine with Claire having side projects, and does indeed sometimes help her with them, but in the same instance? He has zero issue sabotaging Claire's work and even making her throw aside her own ambitions in place of his. Now, Claire does the same at times, but is often in retaliation for Frank screwing her over in some way.
Despite Frank and Claire basically breaking it off after Frank became abusively controlling, when Frank is shot during Lucas Goodwin's assassination attempt, he gives her a heartfelt speech about how he truly loves and needs her and that it's "them against the world." Of course, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that Frank needed her help to orchestrate his plans until he could get better, nosiree.
Frank in Season 3 got emotionally and verbally abusive to Claire, insulting her intelligence and even very existence without him, and escalated to such a point that he violently seizes her throat and orders her to "get in line." After he is shot, as I just described, he makes nice with her again, and everything seems back to normal....until, when Season 5's finale rolls around, and Claire promises to pardon Frank, Frank informs the audience that if she fails to pardon him, Frank is going to kill her. And not in the "Man, if she doesn't pardon me, I could KILL her!" This was a straight up promise of "If she doesn't pardon me? I will kill her" with a ruthless look on his face.
So this brings us to the question that many people ask themselves after watching the show: Is Frank a sociopath? Can he develop real, feeling relationships with others, or is it all just manipulations and "what can you do for me?"
In all honesty, if you had asked me that question after the first season or two, I would have said that no, Frank wasn't a sociopath, and that he was capable of caring for others beyond "You amuse/are useful to me, we can hang out."
But....as the series progresses? Frank shows his true colors more and more, and slowly but surely moves past each and every person he's ever shown possible care for, brushing them aside in his quest for power.
This is a very purposeful act on Frank's part as well, mind. Frank outright tells the audience that he thinks compassion and love are weaknesses, and refuses to let stuff like that drag him down from his power grabbing. He gives the audience this quote at one point. This quote comes right after Frank says that no man of his gets left behind...before doing just that.
I think this pretty much sums up Frank's character. Frank can be genuinely friendly to people as long as they have SOMETHING to offer him in return, but once they run out of their usefulness? Frank may play nice and act innocent while telling them he can't be associated with them anymore because they're below him, but in truth feels no remorse or regret for doing just that. It's an act. Frank actively TRIES to shed his love and keep everyone at a distance because he only cares about his own, selfish desires.
In conclusion....I don't think Frank has any truly redeeming qualities by the end of the show. Frank uses Doug like a tool that can be tossed aside when broken, treats Freddy like a personal servant and "the help," uses Meechum's taking the bullet to catapult his own public standing and barely even acknowledges the sacrifice Meechum made, gets over Tim's death after a flash of rage and burns everything that he had of Tim's, and ultimately uses Claire as a partner to help him with his schemes, while truthfully showing the capacity and desire to just control her every move and ends his final scene by promising to kill her without remorse.
I think Freddy said it best with this quote:
Frank sees people around him as pieces to be moved. He will be nice and friendly to them, and it may even be genuine, but when the chips are down? He will knock them down and chunk them in the trash without a second thought if it elevates his powerbase.
Heinousness?
No recurring characters in this series are completely guilt-free or moral. Everyone has some sort of baggage or crime under their belts, be it simple bribery all the way up to rape or murder.
Frank outdoes them all without even trying. Frank has numerous personal murders on his hands, be it by order or in person, and has a hellton more through his power as President, be that ordering airstrikes on places likely filled with children or ordering a cyber attack or even allowing a man to be killed on live television just to terrify America. Frank manipulates, corrupts, or ruins someone every other episode, and it all ultimately leads to everyone despising Frank (Except Doug, you loyal old fool).
Final Verdict?
Frank will handily be the hardest case for a CM I'll likely ever make, and if he goes up, he will EASILY be in the "Top 10 most complex CMs of all time" list if one is ever made.
The man is complex as all hell, and with 65 episodes, he had a lot of time to ratchet up crimes and potential redeeming features. I won't be at all surprised is he is ruled a non-contender.
However, with all that said? I, personally, am advocating that Frank Underwood is indeed a CM. Frank is a vile, depraved sociopath who uses everyone around him as stepping stones, and even among those he seems to genuinely care about, he has zero problems ditching, forgetting, or even killing them should the need arise. It's not his first option, yes, but anyone who can even consider treating a "friend" like that, let alone going through with it? Was no real friend at all, IMO.
Overall, I am putting my vote to Keep Frank Underwood. Questions are welcome, as even though I tried to lay out everything as neatly as possible, I might have made some things too confusing or some such, so bring any and all concerns to me and I will answer them to the fullest extent I am able.
Let the voting begin!
edited 3rd Jan '18 9:15:26 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Frank Underwood.
Anyways it's midnight for me so I might as well get this done.
So if you remember back in 2015 I had brought up a candidate who I waited for far to long to bring up from one of my favourite games of that year Life is Strange. We previously talked about it here
for those unfamiliar.
Today we are going to talk about the prequel Life Is Strange: Before the Storm; A three part episodic game that is more of a young romance and family drama type story as opposed to the mystery drama of the previous installment. Set three years before Life is Strange, this game focuses on the previous deuteragonist Chloe Price, and explores how she coped with her father's death and best friend Max moving away years prior, as well as dealing with her mother's new relationship with Chloe's future step father David Madsen, and how she dropped out of Blackwell Academy. Most importantly this also explores the early days of Chloe's friendship and subsequent relationship with Rachel Amber, a character who we heard so much about in Life is Strange but never meet do to being dead for months prior to the game. Well now we finally get to meet her and see what she's like and she was quite the achiever as she was described and easy to fall in love with...despite knowing what's to come (I took a selfie with my facial expression about it, put it on social media surrounding the game hoping to make it a meme.)
This game also seems to drop the Magic Realism angle of Life is Strange, so Chloe, and hence the player doesn't have the time travel powers that Max had. Chloe pretty much had to solve her problems on her own, with lasting consequences. That said they imply that Rachel might have pyro based powers connected to her emotions, but they don't really go anywhere with this and Chloe has lucid dreams where she may or may not be talking to the ghost of father. Anyways, the point of drama starts when Chloe and Rachel skip school and go hiking in the mountains and they spot Rachel's father James, the local district attorney talking to a mysterious woman; and if that wasn't enough, Chloe gets herself involved with a criminal who serves as the games antagonist, Damon Merrick.
Who is Damon Merrick ? What Does He Do ?
Damon Merrick is a small time crime boss and gang leader in Arcadia Bay. He is that one of those guys that everyone who knows about him is afraid of him. Damon runs his operations mostly by pushing drugs and dog fights. He also got a history of murder, assault, battery and larceny under his belt. Anyone who meets Damon will immediately know he's bit of a psychopath. He is also friends with Chloe's friend and drug dealer Frank Bowers, although things have been a little tense between them lately.
Damon has a brief cameo in the first episode at mill he owns where he is hosting a concert. It's there Chloe meets Rachel when they get into a fight with two of Damon's goons who where harassing Chloe.
In the next episode we learn from an email that a forest fire that was started in the previous episode burned down his mill and killed the dogs within them. Damon sends an email to Frank complaining about it and how it will effect his business. Chloe meets up with Frank who asks her to collect money at Blackwell Academy from Drew North, who has been selling drugs for Damon, but withholding money for his financially struggling family.
When Chloe shows up at Drew's dorm, Damon himself arrives and Drew has Chloe hide with his younger brother Mikey while he goes to talk to Damon. Drew says he doesn't have the money and Damon begins to beat him up. The player is given two options; A Chloe can give Damon the money, at which point Mikey will rush to defend his brother, which results in Damon breaking Mikey's arm; or B Chloe can stay in the room with Mikey as they listen to Damon beat Drew to a pulp and eventually break Drew's leg, ruining his football career. Damon then leaves and promises he's gonna pay Mikey a visit next. Damon shows up again at the end of the episode and hands a reluctant Frank a list of names with blood on his hands.
Now this ties in with the Amber family drama as we learn that the woman Chloe and Rachel caught with Mr. Amber was Rachel's biological mother. Her name is Sera and was a high school romance of James Amber's, but had trouble with a drug addiction that got real bad around the time Rachel was born. James left Sera and remarried. These revelations cause a small drift between Rachel and her father, with Rachel now wanting to see her mother. She asks Chloe for help, and Chloe checks in on Frank, as she saw Sera meet with Frank briefly.
Later at a junkyard, Chloe and Rachel meet up with Frank, but Damon shows up as well. Damon warns them not to go looking for Sera, and after an argument, Damon realizes that Rachel is the DA's daughter and pulls a knife out on her, demanding to get the dirt on her father. A brief fight breaks out between Damon and Rachel, which ends with Rachel being stabbed through the arm, causing her to bleed rapidly. Frank begins to fight with Damon, while Chloe rushes Rachel to the hospital.
A while later, Rachel asks Chloe to keep searching for Sera on her behalf, giving Chloe the code to her father's office. Being the DA, James Amber has numerous files on criminals in Arcadia Bay, and Chloe discovers that Sera has been constantly writing to Rachel, but James has been withholding her letters, and the checks he keeps sending to Sera ended up getting voided. If that wasn't enough, James has been in secret contact with Damon regarding a deal they made. As it turns out Damon has abducted Sera and plans on killing her for James, in exchange for James destroying evidence of his crimes, a large sum of money and the identity of a snitch. Chloe poses as James while texting Damon, and burns the evidence James has gathered against him; the evidence being of murders and assaults Damon has committed. In addition to this, Chloe has to guess who the snitch is that Damon is looking for, and Damon states that he can't wait to kill him. Damon then demands "James" to meet him at the burned down mill where Sera is being held.
Chloe goes to the mill with the money, taking a knife to use as a weapon. She spots Frank's RV with a smear of blood on it and a wounded Frank inside. Chloe confronts Damon as he prepares to dose Sera to death, noting that she's been sober for a year. Chloe can try to talk to Damon, offer him the money and even try to knife attack him. All three ends with Damon beating Chloe to the ground. Damon gloats that now he has James Amber wrapped around his finger because of their deal and he's gonna squeeze it for all its worth, before he has Chloe to watch as he injects Sera with drugs, when a wounded Frank steps in. Damon pulls out a knife and the two begin to fight. At this point Chloe passes out...when she regains consciousness she finds Sera has been freed and Frank has killed Damon off camera. Bit of a cop out if you ask me.
Sera states she no longer intends to meet her daughter, and tells Chloe not to tells Rachel about James and Damon's deal, so it will not ruin Rachel's relationship with her father for good. Like the previous game the player is given a final choice, but unlike the previous game it doesn't change the ending in a sufficient way; the player can either tell Rachel the truth about what her father did or protect her from the truth, and the only thing that will change is the state of the Amber family in the following montage. Although if the player plays their cards right they can have Rachel actually meet Sera. The game ends with a fairly upbeat montage setting up the events of Life is Strange; in this montage we see Frank burning a box full of Damon's belongings as well as a bloodied picture of him after apparently just burying Damon's body.
And if you didn't get the point that this is supposed to be a Bittersweet Ending, The Stinger takes place three years later; Rachel's phone is lying in a desk in the Dark Room, with seventeen missed calls from Chloe, and the sound of a camera going off repeatedly in the background.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?
Not really. All we see of Damon is that he's a violent psychopath who seems to like inflicting pain on people and making money. He's essentially a discount Trevor Phillips, without the humanizing qualities or Black Comedy and has more subdued, douchbaggy personality.
Damon does get angry about his mill burning down and the dogs he has inside it being killed, but that has more to do with how this will effect his business.
It's mentioned that Damon and Frank where friends before the game and that it was Damon who gave Frank his dog Pompidou. However at the time of the game thing have been tense between the two, as Frank mentions that Damon has been acting out in a way lately that makes him feel uneasy. While posing as James, if you accuse Frank of being a snitch to Damon, Damon does defend Frank saying he knew Frank his whole life and calls him "like a brother to me", but from what we actually see of their relationship, Damon is mostly a dick to Frank when he isn't trying to kill him. By the time episode three ends, their friendship is officially over with the two fighting eachother and Damon trying to kill Frank twice, and Frank ultimately killing Damon. He also taunts Frank about maiming him in their earlier fight. In the closing montage, Frank does seem upset at killing Damon, but it seems that he's more upset that We Used to Be Friends and their friendship ended that way; that's the closest Damon has got to any sympathetic moments.
Now when Damon does try to kill Sera, while it is at the behest of James Amber, two things are clear here; 1. that Damon is doing this to help blackmail James and that he's in more control of the situation that James, and 2. Damon really likes this job and according to his texts to "James" is getting impatient on waiting to see if James wants to show up to do the deed. In those same texts he taunts James about stabbing Rachel.
He seems to have a Villain Respect towards Chloe of the You Got Spunk! variety and expressed interest in having her work for him. That said, he also interlaces this with antagonizing her and even beating her up, so he's being Faux Affably Evil in that regard.
Heinous by the Stories Standards ?
Now Damon's main competition here is Mark Jefferson (who doesn't make an appearance in the game save for a pseudo cameo in The Stinger) who was a serial killer and torturer of young women and teenage girls. This can be chalked up with the two being very different types of villains with Damon being a small time crime boss. We do see some of Damon's operations, the same way we see evidence of Jefferson's. As for Damon's assaults and murders, we see his battery (one of which is of a thirteen to twelve year old boy) in the game that's for sure and four attempted murders. As for evidence for his other crimes and murders, we see it in the form of actual collected crime scene evidence, witness statements and files that James is withholding and that Chloe has to burn.
Now admittedly, Damon doesn't have that same...how do I put this ? "Air" of pure evil Jefferson had, although that can be played up to how they where written. Jefferson was a surprise antagonist, was personal to the protagonists and was played for more Nightmare Fuel than Damon. Jefferson was one creepy ass sombitch once his true colours was revealed and the Dark Room he runs was some dark web shit. And because of how personal he was, he became one of the most hated villains of 2015 (at least in the fandom circles I've been in, he was one of the top 3). In contrast, Damon doesn't inspire that same fear and hatred from the fandom as Jefferson did, wasn't a Hidden Villain and was Obviously Evil from the word "go". He still gets treated as pretty bad by the characters in game, and does try to torture Sera to death via overdose...the same way Rachel is destined to die.
Other antagonists in this game include James Amber, who is easily out heinoused by Damon in this game, besides arranging Sera's abduction and he's played somewhat sympathetically and has clear redeeming qualities, particularly wanting to protect his daughter. He can be a Karma Houdini depending on if the player wants to snitch on him to Rachel or not. There's also this student named Elliot, something of a Big Bad Wannabe and a controlling It's All About Me Crazy Jealous Guy Stalker with a Crush towards Chloe and writes Yandre poetry about murdering her for rejecting him. Elliot may be a Hate Sink (in my eyes at least) but he's barely a blip on the heinous radar (lord help me if I didn't beat his ass up and down the room though).
So that's what we got from Life Is Strange: Before the Storm.
Edited by Beast on Aug 14th 2020 at 6:25:03 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I can give a
for Frank Underwood as well as a tentative
Damon given that he seems more upset at the fact someone had the gal to betrayed him rather than it was his "friend" who betrayed him.
What about Sean Prescott he sounds like a piece of work, does he make the cut or isn't he not heinous enough?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI think I'll give a tentative
to Frank Underwood............Guy reminds me of one candidate that I E Pd Arty...........His redeeming quality doesn't hold a candle and subverts it later on.
Oh! And btw, Is this Kevin Spacey's second CM as for now?
edited 3rd Jan '18 9:29:40 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Yeah, Frank is definitely a keeper. As far as I'm concerned, his relationships with his friends only serve to make him a bigger scumbag since it's made perfectly clear that when push comes to shove, they're nothing more than tools who Frank can throw away and the fact that he viewed one of those friendships as a weakness... like I've said regarding the likes of Ego or the Commandant, having redeeming qualities that you actively throw away if they're holding you back makes you worse than the scum that doesn't have them to begin with.
And ugh... I felt super guilty about saying this after learning about what a creep Kevin Spacey is, but goddamn Frank may just be one of my favorite villains in anything ever. So well-acted, so complex... anyway, I'll also say yes to Damon.
edited 3rd Jan '18 10:13:48 PM by FriedWarthog
Never watched House of Cards but I'm certainly aware of the show's monstrous popularity, and how iconic the character has now become in pop culture.
Read that whole EP, and I gotta say,
. Seems like we may even get some quotes for the Complete Monster page out of that series.
edited 3rd Jan '18 9:35:58 PM by speyeker
Underwood. Psychopathic bastard.
to Damon as well. I was hesitant at first due to the... unique nature of the previous game's Big Bad, but I think Damon does enough considering he is a completely different type of villain.
I think I'll say 'Yes' to Damon. Sounds bad enough aplenty IMO.
But yeah, if Frank DOES get approved? He'll easily be one of my favorite CMs ever, and is already ranked among my top villains regardless.
Oh, and ElfenLied....excellent new Profile Pic.
HAHA!!! You're welcome
Been a huge fan of the series thanks to ZA MEMES!!! Though I have to say it does have its own pros and cons.
Getting back on the track......How many C Ms does Kevin Spacey have? And yea.........I felt pretty shocked thanks to the revelation on how he is irl............And speaking of which, I think I'm inspired to make my story regarding H.W. fiasco.......But maybe at a later time.note
edited 3rd Jan '18 10:01:55 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

Also, are the random f-bombs needed? They make it look a bit tacky. Let's please be a bit more professional about this.
edited 3rd Jan '18 6:47:10 PM by Irene
Shadow?