During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Piella does have an Alas, Poor Villain moment by the end, but Wallace had actually fallen in love with her. The man never seems to have any luck when it comes to romance, does he? And the relationship between the two can be considered Domestic Abuse, so...
I think this is a good image for Piella
◊.
Bakewell and Lucia. Good to have you back Vampire
edited 3rd Jan '18 2:40:36 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffOkay, so, concerning the fact Piella has a Sympathy for the Devil and Alas, Poor Villain moment after she dies...
It's depressingly realistic.
The people who grieve her are Wallace and Fluffles. Piella and Wallace were actually engaged to be married, he was very much in love with her. So, his feelings for her aren't going to just evaporate the moment she tries to kill him, he's Wallace!
As for Fluffles, well, Piella was her owner and was constantly abused by her. She still cared about Piella. But she is also an abuse victim as well.
The only person who didn't mourn who was Gromit, who managed to figure out what kind of person she was pretty quick.
Man, who knew Wallace and Gromit would get so heavy on our asses?
Overall, it is more a character reaction which seems to feel bad for Wallace losing yet another chance at love. It also mourns the person she used to be and not the monster she became.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.Okay, after watching the (surprisingly delightful and wholesome) short... I'm gonna change my mind and vote no on Piella.
Is she heinous enough? Definitely, I'm not contesting that. And yeah, her Freudian Excuse is not only pathetic but stems from something she bought upon herself that she refuses to take responsibility for, and she has no genuinely redeeming qualities. And personally, I don't see her death as mitigating: Wallace is sad because he's a nice guy who loved her, but her death isn't really treated as something that the audience should be sad over, which Grommit reach supports.
But something that the effortpost kinda glosses over is that as far as I'm concerned, she doesn't quite hit the "played seriously" criteria. While the short has it's comedic moments Piella isn't quite played for laughs for a good chunk of it, and most of the comedic moments come from Grommit's over the top efforts in preventing Wallace's death. But at the very end? Her Alien Shout-Out final battle against her poodle just comes off as way too comedic for it's own good and is completely played for laughs (she dual wields rolling pins and does a rather silly "Bring it" gesture, for pity's sake).
So I don't know: If she ends up staying I won't throw a fit. But to me, she just narrowly misses the criteria thanks to that final battle. So yeah, mark me down as a no. It was a fun little short though, I really wish I had more exposure to Wallace and Grommit beforehand.
edited 3rd Jan '18 3:08:20 PM by FriedWarthog
Glad to see we have another convert. Yeah Wallace and Gromit is a lovely series.
to Lucia and Piella (yeah, I considered proposing her myself, but due to worries of seriousness I never got around to doing it).
Have to say that there is something really weird about hearing cheerful old Wallace (played by the loveable Peter Sallis) talking about a Serial Killer (yeah they actually outright call her a serial killer several times in the short) all without changing his voice.
Its like browsing your grandmother's bookshelves and discovering she's a Karin Slaughter fan (and yes that did happen to me, its still disconcerting to this day.
edited 3rd Jan '18 3:16:33 PM by MGD107
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I did point out it was an Aliens homage, but I still think that was played very seriously enough for her to count.
I think a good comparison is Archibald Snatcher, a villain who has goofy moments but still counts. Piella's every comedic moment does tend to involve her getting comeuppance, which is what the Aliens reference final battle is. Her getting comeuppance.
edited 3rd Jan '18 3:42:22 PM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.I actually agree with Vampire on both points here.
While she did had some humorous moments at the end they do nothing to detract her villainy which is played completely seriously. We also had similar characters like her such as Ajax and Snatcher who both had comical deaths but qualified anyways because their villainous actions were played 100% seriously.
As for her "Alas, Poor Villain" death. This is actually one of the few moments that a CM can have an Alas, Poor Villain because while a few characters might mourn her death, it was never treated in a sympathetic light towards the audience at all. ala Metal Face
But man what a Bitch. And I thought the likes Cartman and Jeff were abusive
edited 3rd Jan '18 3:55:24 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Yup.
Some fantastic writing overall for a Wallace and Gromit short. Amazing that they go from a robotic slot machine skiing on the moon made of cheese to an out and out Serial Killer.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Oh, she is played seriously enough throughout the whole thing. Even watching it right now, it is jarring to see such a dark villain in Wallace and Gromit. The abuse she throughs on poor Fluffles is disturbingly realistic and reminds of how someone would abuse a child. And that final confrontation comes across less as a funny moment and more as Piella getting her just desserts.
Yeah, I also considered bringing up Piella, but ecidd against it du to finding this on her character page on the W&G wiki:
"However, she is later shown as an angel/ghost flying in the sky on a hot air balloon, in her old, skinnier self. It is unknown whether this was Wallace's imagination, a brief moment symbolizing her redemption, or a mere cinematic effect. "
Are... are they implying she went to HEAVEN?!
jjjYeah, Piella’s Villainous Breakdown sees her become very delusional but it is out of frustration at having been cheated of her thirteen victim, Wallace.
So, what is the current count on Piella Bakewell? I’ll wait for tomorrow to make a write up.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.So, I shall propose another candidate from A Song Of Ice and Fire fic, Hell Is Empty
which ships Lyanna and Rhaegar, and is rather steamy I must say, with some vivid descriptions that will make your blood practically boil at the sight of these remarkably descriptive moments of passionate, fiery-
The candidate is Aerys II Targaryen.
What has he done?
Where do I even begin with this guy? We all know what an asshole Aerys was in canon, but man, he outdoes himself here.
See, he tells Rhaegar he needs a wife, but decides against Elia Martell because of Fantastic Racism. Gee whiz!
So, the tourney at Harrenhal is organized, etc, Rhaegar crowns Lyanna and Aerys has the two married. Lyanna is now in King's Landing.
At Lyanna's first dinner with her family, we are treated to the lovely sight of Aerys mocking at poking fun at them all. Lyanna shows her more haughty side...causing Aerys to remark she reminds her of someone.
We all know where this is going now, eh?
The fic mainly focuses on Lyanna and Rhaegar's steamy romance for the most part of things, but whenever Aerys shows up, oh man, watch out!
From one point where Lyanna learns he is currently raping his wife after one of those executions of his, you just know how utterly screwed she is. It is nice seeing Lyanna playing with dear little Viserys, but of course, she is scared that Aerys will get his claws into him. Overall, he is much the same as in canon, even burning one of his Hands, Qarlton Chelsted, for calling him mad for wanting to put caches of wildfire everywhere in King's Landing. Rhaegar is actually planning a coup against him. Though, Aerys does abuse poor Viserys as well, piece of crap.
And of course, we get to the part where he decides to burn a child for stealing. Lyanna protests for obvious reasons, and is heavily pregnant at the time.
So, she ends up in a trial by combat, to save the kid.
Guess who Aerys champion is? Go on.
Oh, and just before the whole thing goes down, Aerys straight up fondles her vagina, declaring she will bare his own child after she gives birth to Rhaegar's.
Because only Aerys is that much of an asshole.
Things go real bad. The kids burns alive, Lyanna ends up miscarrying the kid, the throne room almost burns down, and Jaime Lannister kills Aerys while Rhaegar and Tywin storm the Red Keep in a coup. Oh yeah, Aerys wanted Tywin brought to justice for treason which was linked with Rhaegar's plot.
Lyanna ends up traumatised after the whole thing and Aerys actions cast a shadow over the whole rest of the fic.
Mitigating Factors?
Fuck you, Aerys, just fuck you!
Seriously, this is the absolute worst you will ever see Aerys at all in any fic. I mean, God, he's repulsive in his actions and how he treats everyone.
Heinousness?
Pulling the trial by combat and fire is House Targaryen's champion is on your son's heavily pregnant wife and molesting her beforehand while telling her she will bare your kid next?
Fuck you, Aerys.
Conclusion?
Keep.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.Why are y'all voting up Piella Bakewell? She isn't really played that seriously. ...I mean we while as vote up Eric Cartman while we are it.
I mean Cartman has tried to commit genocide against the Jews, tried to have all non gingers killed, purposely infected Kyle with HIV, killed Scott Tenorman's parents and fed them to him and a lot of other horrible crimes.

Yes to Lucia and Bakewell.
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