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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#105001: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:29:07 PM

[up][up] Wait, I just reread that, and holy crap, that wasn't clear at ALL, was it [lol] Ledger!Joker was a great villain; Bale!Batman,,,was only okay.

BTW, Scraggle and I have been talking over PM, and while he can give you more details (mainly because I'll probably get a migraine [lol] ), expect a MASSIVE overhaul of DC Comics soon. Some works (such as, I believe, Preacher), will likely be moving to the main Comic Books page, while, for example, Milestone may end up getting its own subpage. The Icon works may also be moved from Marvel Comics to the main Comics page (actually, Scraggle, should I just take care of the Icon stuff now?).

edited 3rd Jan '18 12:31:11 PM by ACW

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#105002: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:34:24 PM

Okay It seems I'm okay with cutting Carmila right now

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#105003: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:37:25 PM

Well I think the Serial Rapist thing for the noble is kinda exxagerating. I do agree that it seems Carmilla doesn't really do as much as she could for this trope, so im fine with cutting her.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#105004: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:40:28 PM

Btw, Miraculous, since I think we hit the mark for the anime...have any forthcoming posts from Ancient Magus' Bride?

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#105005: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:41:31 PM

I'm gonna say: don't cut Carmella.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#105006: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:44:21 PM

[up][up] I though 24 epsiodes were approved for season 1 and were just at no. 12 at the moment. But yeah his arc in the manga should be finishing around March (theyve implied some demon will take over as Big Bad) so I'll get an issue that he has out of the way during the effort post then.

edited 3rd Jan '18 12:45:08 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#105007: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:49:31 PM

Okay. Is it just Cartaphilius or anyone else?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#105008: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:55:28 PM

Not really anyone else comes to mind to be honest at least for now. Everybody else either fails the heinous standerd or has redeeming quailites.

edited 3rd Jan '18 12:57:35 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#105010: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:26:50 PM

My first EP of the new year...now, it's been over two weeks since the character's arc ended, and just under since the story itself, ended so...

'What's the Work?;

The City of Never is a terrific epic horror novel by my good buddy Scraggle. What's the plot? Well, it's set in a sleepy village called 'Onolo'....and a realm known as "The City" where dwell a group of nightmarish creatures. an amnesiac man arrives, and we learn of a group of ancient races called Seers, supposedly wiped out long ago. A motley cast discovers something is manipulating what could be the end of the world. Let's talk the true villain of the novel...the Consultant.

Who is the Consultant?

Now, long ago, the race known as 'Seers' were wiped out by the Daydreamers, an ancient, godlike, powerful race. Now, in present, some of the main characters are the descendants of the race of Seers. Now...one of the Daydreamers was known as Lucia. Lucia had some issues with this whole 'god' thing. Namely, she figured everything that lived was hers to fuck with. Lucia used her powers to tear apart reality itself, ripping at the world and tormenting mortals as she felt was her 'right' as a God. The other Daydreamers? Well, they disagreed. Lucia was exiled, cast off from everything, removed from the world that was her home. Lucia was furious, roaming the world to figure out a way to take her revenge on the reality she despised.

She found Draynak. An ancient Eldritch Abomination long ago imprisoned, Draynak reached out to Lucia, making a sort of pact. Draynak wanted a very simple thing: to be free. Lucia agreed to help, but intended on using Draynak to achieve her own ends. In Draynak's service, Lucia would become known as "The Consultant," a being of frightening power and devious sadism who had to scout...candidates to bear Draynak's essence. They needed someone who could connect to the realm known as Remeditary. It needed someone of the Seer bloodline. Lucia would do the 'scouting' here. Lucia would adopt countless human guises, manipulating countless horrible events, using and discarding and killing all in her path. To this end, she would lead monsters to annihilate towns and villages, taking candidates and infecting them with leechlike monstrosities to feed on them, violating their beings. For centuries. None survived. One survivor of one of her rampages, Edison describes how Lucia completely annihilated his home, taking a 'special' girl he'd befriended named Zyra and subjecting her to this treatment. However, Lucia cheated Draynak and killed Zyra herself. Nobody did. When Edison confronts Lucia? Well, she simply kills him.

Lucia also reached out to other inhuman creatures, manipulating them into a sort of church to summon the beings they worshiped to earth which would have, uhh...bad repercussions. she took control of the cult, turning them against their own family. One of these beings, the Blind, attempts to confront Lucia...and she simply rends him apart. Now, Daniel, as I mentioned before? Lucia abducted his daughter Crystal, using her as the candidate for Draynak, gleefully infecting and violating her, mocking Daniel with this fact. One of the other heroes, Christian, attempts to attack Lucia, who plays wishbone with him contemptuously. She seizes him by both legs and rips him apart.

Here's the twist, though. Draynak, as far as horrific Eldritch Abomination types go? Isn't really evil. Unfortunately, there is something much, much worse: The Emperor of Rain, that corrupted and reduced Draynak to imprisonment to begin with. And it lives to simply devour everything that lives. Draynak? Wants to get away. He just wants to live and if the entire 'teraverse' as he calls it dies in the process? Well, can't make an omelet, etc. He's too far above the 'verse for such concerns to really matter to him.

Here's the problem: Lucia never had any intention of truly working for Draynak. She's been playing him as well. Lucia's desires are very simply: she wants to hurt everything below her, to torment them and break them. A devious, cruel sadist, Lucia goes after Daniel's remaining daughter Alessa, intending simply on hurting her one more time as the Emperor of Rain has taken notice of the City and is converging there to devour it...to Lucia's irritation. For billions of years, she claims she has sown the seeds to destroy reality itself, and kill everyone and everything. Now thanks to them, the Emperor of Rain is coming too quick and man, does that annoy her because she can't enjoy herself enough. Alessa angrily denounces Lucia, who tries to torture her to death, when another girl, Katrina, helps Alessa, resulting in Lucia being impaled in the face. They escape into the unknown rather than face the Emperor of Rain, but Lucia...is left to face the beast's wrath herself and it ends up consuming her utterly, with an agonizing, humiliating end.

Mitigating Qualities?

Okay, so yeah, at first it's implied there may be some sympathetic qualities to Lucia. She was exiled, cut off from an 'exalted' existence...only, hey, wait. she was exiled for being a horrific monster who loved torturing people under her. Why? Because she considered them lesser and found joy in it. Lucia is described as a 'pit of sadism,' who savors the pain of others. Draynak is a being who's mostly scared of the inevitable, far from genuinely malicious and the Emperor of Rain is a horrible force of nature more than a person. But Lucia? Every crime you can think of: murder, torture, omnicide, rape? She's got it.

Conclusion?

EASY keep.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#105011: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:29:21 PM

Hey everyone.

I'm back. I've had time to steam over it, and having seen the episode, I will admit, the Koekoeken doesn't count...but only because it is one of a species and I have no way of comparing it to any other members, as we only see one of them. It could count from what I saw, but that one detail is what makes me think otherwise.

So...I have two new candidates to propose. First up!

What is the work?

Wallace & Gromit A Matter of Loaf and Death, the fourth and sadly, maybe the last short, released in 2008. Ah, the memories of watching this one.

Wait, don't downvote just yet. I talked this over with Lighty.

Who is she?

Piella Bakewell, former pin up girl mascot for Bake-O-Lite who became too fat to ride the Bake-O-Lite balloon after eating too many Bake-O-Lite confectuaries and was fired.

She...didn't take this well.

What has she done?

We open with Baker Bob, a Bake-O-Lite baker, being murdered, shot from his killer's POV. In other words, Piella's. She killed him with a rolling pin to the head.

It cuts away at the moment of impact, but we see his corpse fall face first into the dough. You will see his dead corpse on the trope page for this short.

By far the darkest opening we have ever had for a Wallace and Gromit short. Piella has just killed someone and is already a full head and shoulders above every other villain in Wallace and Gromit.

Course, she didn't settles for that. Oh no.

See, this all part of her revenge against Bake-O-Lite for firing her for reasons that are very much her fault, and Bob is her twelfth victim. She now needs one more dead baker to complete her Baker's dozen, which refers to her collection of dummies which have the numbered pictures of her and her victims on them, complete with the baker's hat and aprons. In her bedroom.

Her next victim is...Wallace.

We are introduced to her properly pulling a Damsel in Distress routine by pretending her bicycle brakes are broken so Wallace is will save her from the crocodile pit at the zoo. Gromit does, but Fluffles her toy poodle who will be Gromit's love interest for this short, was also present there. Piella put the poor girl in serious danger. Oh, and despite having a very lavish lifestyle and a mansion, meaning she is pretty well off as is, Fluffles sleeps in a cardboard box, and is clearly being abused by Piella. She doesn't want to be part of her plan to murder so many people, but is being forced to by Piella. This is honestly one of the more disturbing moments as we see what their relationship is actually like. She even threatens to kill her at one point if Gromit doesn't do as she says.

So, she and Wallace start this romance together, but Gromit is suspicious. So, Piella starts trying to drive a wedge between Wallace and Gromit (you fat bitch!), pulling a Wounded Gazelle Gambit to make it seem like Gromit bit her at one point when she realizes he suspects her. Gromit is punished by Wallace (WHAT) for this. After this, Piella tries to push Wallace to his death, but is thwarted by good old Gromit. She than rants against baker's in general and shows what kind of person she is to Wallace and leaves with Fluffles.

When she comes back the next day with a cake, apologetic, Fluffles isn't present, so Gromit, worried, follows Piella home to check on her. Surprise! It was a trap, and Piella force both Fluffles and Gromit into the storeroom so neither one will interfere with her plans.

Don't worry, the escape in the Bake-O-Lite hot air balloon and arrive just in time as Wallace is lighting the candle on the cake.

But the cake is a lie here. It's a bomb really.

Piella arrives as Wallace and Gromit try to dispose of the bomb, trying to kill Wallace and revealing how much she hates bakers and their creations for ruining her figure and career.

Piella, you ate the stuff! I don't care if you feel it was forced or anything, you could have stopped at any time, it is your fault you became fat! The whole thing is your fault!

Oh, and she beat Fluffles after she gets bitten by her as she tries to go after Wallace. It's a Black Screen of Death, but we still hear poor Fluffles yelp as she is hit. Ouch.

During her ensuing Villainous Breakdown, she and Fluffles end up going up against each other one on one, with Fluffles using a forklift modified by Wallace to fight her in an Aliens homage. Fluffles beats her, but she seems to escape on the hot air balloon when it turns out the bomb is now in Wallace's trousers, only for Gromit to save the day!

Piella curses them in a rage...as her weight causes her to float down into the crocodile pit and get eaten off screen.

Heinousness?

By far the darkest Wallace and Gromit villain ever. She's a Serial Killer with twelve victims, keeps a sort of trophy collection in the form of dummies around her bed, and abuses her poor dog horribly. She sets a whole new standard.

Mitigating Factors?

Wallace and Fluffles both mourn her death. However, this Alas, Poor Villain moment is somewhat darker when you realises that they are abuse victims mourning their abuser.

Piella never cared about Fluffles at all, as evidenced here, when she uses the poor dog to threaten Gromit into getting into the storeroom.

And remember, she tried to kill Wallace.

Her motive is very petty and doesn't justify what she has done at all. She isn't a victim of circumstances, it is directly her fault for what she did.

Conclusion?

[tup]to the absolute most evil Wallace and Gromit villain ever, Piella Bakewell.

Also, I propose we should add her holding Fluffles hostage to the image links page for this trope.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:37:09 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#105012: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:30:02 PM

As we've discussed this over PM and because of my own research, as shocked as I am to say it, I think Piella counts with the clear onscreen victim/s and pattern.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#105013: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:31:37 PM

[up]Don't forget what she did to Fluffles. That counts as well.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#105014: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:32:30 PM

[tup]Lucia (Congrats Scraggle on the new novel) and Piella ( A Wallace And Gromit CM, the world is truly strange)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#105015: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:33:03 PM

Ah, one of those "how dare you lock me away for being evil" types. [tup] Lucia. What happens to the generic doomsday Emperor?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#105016: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:35:09 PM

Nothing. IT's just an unstoppable, unbeatable force. Thankfully, it's unaware of the main world.

It's like asking what happens to Cthulhu or Azathoth. The answer is always "nothing and pray they don't wake up/notice you"

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#105018: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:48:16 PM

Yes...Bakewell. Honestly was considering bringing her up once, but I declined it because it seemed that it wasn't played seriously enough. Other then that, [tup] Bakewell.

And also "yes" for Lucia having been personally told what she does.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:51:32 PM by AustinDR

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#105019: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:51:46 PM

BTW, this week I'm reading Phasma (the book AND the comic); expect, HOPEFULLY, Strucker's effortpost by the end of the month.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#105020: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:52:57 PM

[tup] to Piella and Lucia (So the consultant real name was Lucia huh)

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#105021: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:58:59 PM

[tup]Lucia.

Something else to remember, while Piella does have comedic moments, most of them are at her expense as she gets her comeuppance.

Oh yeah, that picture thing was actually in a scrapbook, which she burned when Gromit tried to show it to Wallace.

edited 3rd Jan '18 2:01:42 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#105022: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:00:09 PM

Lucia's a Keeper. Bakewell.....hrrrmmm. I'll give a tentative 'Yes' for now, but MAN it's shocking.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#105024: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:07:10 PM

[tup] Lucia, another Scraggle keep. Man, you guys are prolific.

As for the Wallace And Gromit baddy... I... I never expected someone like that to come about here. Like, I know I talk about how ever story has the potential for a CM, but even still...!

I'm... It's been a while since I watched that, so I'm gonna stay out of it. It's just too weird, man. If I rewatch it I might vote yes. Geez. 2018's already really weird.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#105025: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:12:09 PM

Lucia is an easy yes. Piella... I honestly think I'll check for myself just to be sure, but I'm leaning towards a yes for now.


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