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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#104626: Dec 30th 2017 at 7:47:56 PM

[tup] Josef Mengele, probably the Trope Codifier for the Mad Scientist and an utter bastard at that.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#104627: Dec 30th 2017 at 7:50:00 PM

Yes to Herr Doktor Mengele.

have another example from Sister of Testament New Devil, as well as a fantasy villain, which will then commence my full effortpost list:

Who is the villain?

Belphegor is the leader of the demon Council, a war hero to the demon populace...who is in reality the puppetmaster of the supposedly villainous demon lord usurper Leohart. In reality, Belphegor engineered Lord Willbyr's death and pinned it on Leohart to install him as a Puppet King...the way he controls him? Threatening the life of Leohart's beloved and foster sister Liala, whose parents Blephegor murdered a long time ago.

Now, long ago, Belphegor sacrificed the original demon council to create the demon god Chaos to use as a weapon. Belphegor used it to rule over the demon realm until he grew too old and his power waned. Sealing Chaos away with a new council, he decided to regain his power by installing Leohart in the throne after arranging Willbyr's death. Intending on restarting the war with the Godly realms, Belphegor proposes a tournament to show off the strength of the demon realm...while conscripting the demon mercenary Nebra into attacking and committing straight up genocide on the demons to drive the survivors closer to him. And the tournament? He plans to sacrifice the audience and fighters to Chaos to regain his own power.

Making him even worse, Belphegor is a straight up Serial Rapist who feeds off the women he takes to bed. His introductory scene shows him discarding one woman, now a corpse, with orders to "bring me another!" having gone through five already, while the corpses are then disintegrated. Other women in his 'playground' are so badly abused they've lost their minds.

Now, Belphegor sends Nebra to wipe out as many of the moderate demons as possible. When Nebra is beaten by Basara, Belphegor uses his master-servant pact with Nebra to disintegrate him before Nebra can talk. In the tournament, Belphegor plans to summon Chaos, wipe out the Moderate faction, rally the rest and go after the Godly tribes...only for Basara to get the better of him. Belphegor thinks he has Basara and mocks how he'll make Mio his sex slave...only for Basara to turn the tables, rendering Belphegor helpless before executing him as he begs for his life. Unfortunately, his plan to summon Chaos is pulled off by the rest of the Council...only for Basara and team to defeat Chaos while Liala, having learned about Belphegor and his minions threatening her beloved Leohart, absolutely massacres the council. Belphegor's true nature is exposed to the demons posthumously, destroying his heroic reputation.

Heinous standard?

He's a genocidal psychopath, murderer, torturer and serial rapist who subjects women to death by sex on the regular. He's a fine match with Zolgia.

Mitigating Qualities?

You must be joking.

Conclusion?

Keep.

edited 30th Dec '17 7:50:28 PM by Lightysnake

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#104631: Dec 30th 2017 at 8:04:50 PM

[up][up] I don't understand what you mean. We deal in nothing but!

Also, what is with these lighthearted harem comedies having such depraved bastards in them?

edited 30th Dec '17 8:05:12 PM by Lightysnake

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#104632: Dec 30th 2017 at 8:22:37 PM

Yea on Belphy and Mengele. Also, screw it, writeup time as my candidate got enough of [tup] votes as for now:

Totally Spies!: From Episode “W.O.W.”, Ariel is the owner of a wrestling match who is revealed to be a leader of an ancient clan “The Sisterhood” whose goals is to eradicate all men and inferior women so that the strongest women could reign supreme. Ariel brainwash most of the spectators of the wrestling match including Sam who is a direct descendant of “The Sisterhood” with her power stone and then leads an assault to Beverly Hills. Ariel then went to Mount St. Helens and wait for the full moon so that she could hypnotize all women in the world who is the direct descendant of Sisterhood. When Clover and Alex got close to her plans, Ariel then puts them into the wrestling ring and orders the hypnotized Sam to kill both of them. Misandrist to the supreme and being deluded by her own desires to rule the world, Ariel is one of WOOHP’s and the spies most dangerous adversaries.

Any thoughts? I'll add this to the drafts.

edited 30th Dec '17 8:23:57 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#104633: Dec 30th 2017 at 8:33:15 PM

[tup] Wreck It Belph

edited 30th Dec '17 8:37:41 PM by JoeBlitz

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#104634: Dec 30th 2017 at 9:20:28 PM

Are we sure Ariel has enough solid support to get a writeup to go up on the trope?

[tup] Lord Dregg, [tup] Belphegor, [tup] the always hideously evil Dr. Mengele

edited 30th Dec '17 9:22:26 PM by ANewMan

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#104635: Dec 30th 2017 at 9:21:21 PM

[up] iirc she has a 7 [tup] votes,2 or 3 abstain votes and 2 [tdown] votes........Sorry if I rushed the writeup :/ I think I'm fine if I create the tally for her

EDIT: Nvm as there are 6 [tup] votes for her which is already enough

edited 30th Dec '17 9:35:13 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#104637: Dec 30th 2017 at 9:25:23 PM

[tup] Dregg, Belphy, and Mengele. I also finally got around to my brother's candidate.

  • Forumwarz: PurifyingSelector88 is the Big Bad of episode 3 and a former Geronimo employee who desires to kill anyone who he considers "undesirable" in order to "purify humanity". He first makes himself known by trying to kill the protagonists and his allies with a sound file containing a literal Brown Note, and it is subsequently revealed that he has done this with others. During the investigation, a tech support worker is killed by the file as a warning to back off. PS88 then tricks the player into pwning the DinkDonkDoink board and deletes the files tracing back to him. He reveals that he has upgraded the Brown Note to a "Death Note" that makes the sound come from the computer itself, thus not being able to be shut off, and has many test subjects to get that far. After testing it on Doctor O, he plans to upload it to an Allen Thicke webcast that would be watched by hundreds of millions. Despite Forumwarz being generally comedic, PS88 manages to be a shockingly dark villain.

edited 30th Dec '17 9:26:01 PM by SatoshiBakura

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#104638: Dec 30th 2017 at 9:27:32 PM

Sounds like good enough votes for Ariel IMO.

[tup] Mengele.

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#104639: Dec 30th 2017 at 10:25:49 PM

[tup] Lord Dregg, Belphegor, Dr. Mengele

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104640: Dec 30th 2017 at 11:04:39 PM

[tup] Dregg, Belphegor, Grace, Ariel and Mengele

edited 30th Dec '17 11:05:46 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#104641: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:03:48 AM

[tup]Mengele and Belphegor

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#104642: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:25:26 AM

[tup] for Belphegor.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#104643: Dec 31st 2017 at 1:13:35 AM

[tup] Mengele. Possibly the easiest historical figure to villainize into this trope, maybe even more than Hitler himself. Really tells you how nasty the guy was in Real Life

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#104644: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:00:11 AM

I have a candidate: A well known character given a new depiction in a series of fan films:

Who is it?

Freddy Krueger from the Tales From Elm Street series.

What does he do?

The Slasher From Elm Street has him running after a young boy who had escaped from him. The boy tries to hide from him in a car, but Freddy finds him and kills him by cutting him open. Days later, he and his daughter Katherine are at a restaurant where Freddy sees the boy's parents, who are grieving since their son disappeared. Freddy pretends to comfort them, telling them he will be found.

A Walk through Elm Street has Freddy talking about how much he loves the sound of the children's screaming, saying it's like music to his ears. He states that he loves making the adults fear for their children, and that he will keep taking because he can.

Another Tale From Elm Street has Freddy going to a school and tricking a Too Dumb to Live girl named Suzie into coming with him after saying that her mother is hurt badly and can't come to pick her up. Freddy takes her to the power plant and begins killing her.

A Tale From Elm Street shows that, before killing Suzie, Freddy tortured her by cutting up her face while forcing her to sing "Freddy's coming for you." Freddy is arrested and interrogated by Detective Tompson. Freddy mocks the detective, and when he says that Krueger raped and killed 5 kids, Freddy says that he thinks the bodycount is higher than that. Freddy eventually threatens to kill Tompsons daughter, Nancy.

The Legend of Elm Street has Freddy come back after being killed by the parents of Springwood. He attacks a woman named Mary, who was the mother of the boy Freddy killed in The Slasher from Elm Street, in her dream. As Freddy is about to kill her, Mary begs him to leave her family out of it. This gives Freddy an idea, and he reveals to Mary that, originally, he was just going to kill the parents, but now, he plans to kill their children instead while leaving them alive to grieve, as it will be 10 times worse than killing them and will be much better revenge. He mockingly thanks Mary for giving him the idea, planning to leave her alive in an act of Cruel Mercy so she has to live with the knowledge that she gave him the idea to go after the children, starting with her daughter. When Mary vows to tell the other parents so they can try to find a way to kill him again, Freddy stabs her in the head with one of the blades on his glove, giving her brain damage and putting her in a coma.

Heinousness?

He killed at least 5 children (though he implies the actual bodycount is higher), some of them involved rape, and he tortured one of them by cutting her face while forcing her to sing. He threatens to kill Detective Tompson's daughter Nancy, and when Mary unintentionally gives him the idea to target the children instead of the adults, he mockingly thanks her while telling her that he will start with her daughter and will leave Mary herself alive to live with the fact that she gave him the idea. When she vows to tell the other parents, he puts her in a coma.

Mitigating factors?

There is this weird scene in the last video where, after being let go by the police, he goes to the power plant and throws a fit before breaking down and looking at pictures of his family history. This could have been mitigating, were it not for the fact that we know from the films that he actually doesn't care about his wife or daughter, as he killed his wife when she learned he was the Springwood Slasher, and he later uses his daughter so he can leave Springwood and be able to kill wherever he wants, trying to kill her after she has done so since he no longer needs her. I am inclined to file the scene under Big-Lipped Alligator Moment.

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104645: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:17:42 AM

[tup] Dregg. At least as bad as Shredder & Krang, but taken more seriously.

[tup] Mengele. I THINK this is only the second incarnation of him so far, though there may be one more coming.

As for the What If stuff, that's what I'll do, just create a new group. Great idea idea .

[tup] Belphegor and Freddy.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#104646: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:23:28 AM

[tup] My boy Freddy Krueger.

5th incarnation to count ( Pretty sure there might be more that count, so I'm not sure how many there are in total)

edited 31st Dec '17 3:24:02 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#104647: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:39:47 AM

[tup] to Josef Mengele (Count Dracula leading an army of universal's classic monsters to fight the nazi's? Why haven't I read this yet?), Belphegor and Freddy Krueger.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104648: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:45:02 AM

[tup]Belphegor, Josef Mengele (not the After the Truth on), and Freddy Krueger.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#104649: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:54:25 AM

[tup] Kamfreddy Sue.....I mean Freddy Krueger

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012

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