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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#104226: Dec 28th 2017 at 1:24:06 PM

I think Coin's come up before, too and been voted down.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104227: Dec 28th 2017 at 1:24:29 PM

Whoops, never mind. I was thinking of Book!Coin.

edited 28th Dec '17 1:27:19 PM by ACW

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#104228: Dec 28th 2017 at 1:31:51 PM

[tup] Madame B.

I'm assuming Ego hasn't appeared in the MCU rewrites yet, and it's not as if she'd have the resources of a cosmic being anyway.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#104229: Dec 28th 2017 at 1:59:50 PM

BTW I'm go in to my aunt's house for a few days, so will be missing the Star Wars discussion. I had watched it, so I'll leave my vote with polar phantom and that will count as mine.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#104230: Dec 28th 2017 at 2:04:21 PM

[tup] To Madame B

[tdown] To Coin

Cut Anita from GDV

[down] Thank for clarifying that for me

edited 28th Dec '17 2:09:55 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#104231: Dec 28th 2017 at 2:06:16 PM

[up]Were not cutting Anita from the Cm page. She sexually, physically and mentally assaulted multiple children.

We're taking her out of the GDV page.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104233: Dec 28th 2017 at 2:36:17 PM

[tup]Madame B

Nay to Coin. She's a bitch, certainly, but she doesn't come close to Snow.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104234: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:12:27 PM

No to Coin. Search function please, Hope. On the other hand, eay yea to Lighty's fantasy duo.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#104235: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:33:06 PM

[tup] Thanatos, Voruul and Sultae. Also [tup] the rule proposals on real people.

NO to Coin. WIE, not nearly heinous enough etc.

And yes, I am voting on miraculous' behalf for The Last Jedi. I hope that's kosher.

They have told me their voting intentions via PM.

And one last thing: The Last Jedi is gonna be a big discussion. My recommendation if you've got an EP? Wait until the talks die down. I imagine there will be a lot of controversy and I don't want candidates being buried.

Ravok not being Bill Cipher makes me feel uneasy.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#104236: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:36:06 PM

[tup] Lighty's duo.

[tdown] Coin.

[up] I'm not big on Star Wars. Is it that big of a deal?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#104238: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:38:42 PM

[tup] Thanatos, [tup] Lighty's duo and Madame B.

[tdown] to Coin.

So I finally got through watching The Shannara Chronicles season 2 and may have a new candidate to bring up before the year is up/before either me or bobg bring up William Afton tomorrow (I don't know how these collab things work).

For those who don't know a young adult TV series The Shannara Chronicles, based on the Shannara fantasy novels. Set a thousand years in the future after a nuclear apocalypse, magic and fantastical creatures have come back to the world alongside the surviving humans.

The first season is a loose adaptation of second book The Elfstones of Shannara, focusing on three protagonists Wil, a human elf hybrid and titular Shannara of the show, Eretria, a young human rover (bandit), and Amberlee, an elven princess who would later Ascend Into A Higher Plain Of Existence. The second season however, diverges from the books, continuing the story of the first season as opposed of adapting the other books in favour of telling its own plot, including bringing new characters and lifting characters from a prequel to the original book.

A year after saving the world from the Dagda Mor and his demonic army, Wil has settled for a quiet life in becoming a healer/doctor, while trying to get over Amberle's loss, before he is approached by Mareth, the daughter of the druid Allanon, who seeks her father. Eretria has rejoined a group of rovers only to discover Lyria, fellow rover and her new love interest, is the princess of the Kingdom of Leah. There is also two new threats to the four kingdoms, an Anti-Magic terror group called the Crimson, and the return of an old evil that threatened the land.

I'm gonna be talking about the latter; the Warlock Lord, who doesn't count in the books, but this version seems to be one of the deviations that the show did that'll I'll address shortly.

Who is the Warlock Lord ? What Does He Do ?

Based on the principal villain of the first bookThe Sword of Shannara, the Warlock Lord was a renegade druid who tried to conquer the four lands, wrecking havok across the lands during the war of the races, before he was killed by Wil's father Shea with the sword of Shannara. However it's revealed early in the season that the Warlock Lord is Not Quite Dead and has made preparations for his resurrection in the event of the death, having a small group of followers that seek to bring him back. One of them being Bandon, who was corrupted by the Dagda Mor (among other things) in the first season and now that corruption is being played up to serve the Warlock Lord.

After the Warlock Lord's death, he required his sword, heart and skull to be brought back, which have been hidden. Bandon already has the sword and his followers have his heart so the first half of the season revolves around trying to find the skull. Bandon had the Warlock Lord's servants turned into demonic mord wraiths to carry out their masters will in their quest. It turns out the Warlock Lord's new plan is to bring an era of death and torment to the four lands by tainting Heaven's Well, the magical source of the silver river at the Kingdom of Leah, which is the lifeblood of the four lands; if the Warlock Lord taints it, darkness will consume the land and its survivors will be his soulless slaves. That's not good. Anyways, it also turns out that Lyria's mother Queen Tamlin made a deal with the Warlock Lord during the war; since the Kings bloodline is the key to Heaven's Well, Tamlin would give the Warlock Lord access to the well in exchange for killing her husband and ruling her kingdom alone, as well as sparing Leah from the carnage of the war. Tamlin made this deal, correctly banking on the Warlock Lord being killed before she had to pay up. What she didn't anticipate is that the Warlock Lord would eventually come back from the dead.

As stated, part way through the season, Bandon finally finds the Warlock Lord's skull and conducts a blood magic ritual to bring the man himself back. Because Bandon used Allanon's blood for the ritual, the Warlock Lord awakens in a body resembling Allanon's, albeit with different features. Bandon swears himself as the Warlock Lord's apprentice and makes a request that he help bring back Bandon's love interest Catania (who was murdered by Bandon himself). The Warlock Lord does so, but there's a catch; the Warlock Lord cast a spell over Catania, forcing her to fall into lust with him and seduces her in front of Bandon, and the Warlock Lord beats and humiliates Bandon for trying to stop him. This goes on for a while before the Warlock Lord has Bandon kill Catania again.

Meanwhile, the Crimson have taken over the Kingdom of Leah and in turn killed Queen Tamlin, meaning the key to Heaven's Well now rests within Lyria. When Crimson general Riga (the Big Bad up until this point) has returns to their base, the Warlock Lord's old fortress with some of his men, the Warlock Lord himself greets them, effortlessly killing the Crimson soldiers and having Riga himself wrapped up in barbed wire, crushed between the doors of the gate and physically rips Riga's head off with his bare hands boasting that magic will not be purged from the land, but will destroy it. Later on, Bandon asks the Warlock Lord to show him the secrets of power and the Warlock Lord explains that true power can not be shared but belongs only to those who take it. Bandon takes this as a sign that he was meant to pull The Starscream on the Warlock Lord, but this goes about as well as you'd expect with the Warlock Lord impaling and killing Bandon and going about his quest to find Heaven's Well.

Meanwhile, Lyria is taken to the Enclave (once known as New York City) a giant rover settlement housing hundreds, if not thousands of people, for her protection. However, it is discovered that Eretria is a descendant of the Children of Armageddon - human/demon hybrids from when the world was first destroyed. As such, she is susceptible to being controlled for great evil or great good. The Warlock Lord senses her and has one of his wraiths slowly but surely possess her to beacon Lyria's location, taking control of Eretria in the process. Finding the Enclave, the Warlock Lord starts his attack, personally killing dozens of people including a young boy. The Warlock Lord confronts and fights Allanon and his Science Hero friend Cogline, curb stomping them both before Wil and Mareth show up just in time to see the Warlock Lord stab and kill Allanon. The Warlock Lord than flees in their attempt to fight him, having Eretria now completely under his thrall and having captured Lyria.

The Warlock Lord has Lyria taken back to Leah, and forces her to open Heaven's Well, before smacking her head on the wall, knocking her out. The Warlock Lord finally puts his plan into action, cutting his hand and bleeding into the silver river, spreading his dark essence throughout the realm. While Eretria is being exorcised by Cogline, through a combination of blood magic and technology, Wil and Mareth confront the Warlock Lord once again and a fight ensues. The Warlock Lord has the upper hand while gloating to them about the failures of their respective fathers, before running Wil through with his sword. While the Warlock Lord is running his mouth, Wil stabs him back with the sword of Shanarra, the one thing that can kill the Warlock Lord, destroying the villain for good. Wil is still mortally wounded but since the blood of a Shannara can purify the evil effects of the Warlock Lord, he bleeds out in Heaven's Well, undoing the Warlock Lord's taint.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?

I want to stress once again that the show separates itself from the books at a lot of points and the Warlock Lord being one of them.

In the book, the Warlock Lord can't count primarily due to having impaired moral agency on account of being unwittingly corrupted by an Artifact of Doom called the Ildatch. The Warlock Lord of the show however is a Decomposite Character of his literary counterpart, due to the Ildatch corruption backstory being attributed to the Dagda Mor on the show and seemingly omitted from the Warlock Lord.

In the show, the most we get out of the Warlock Lord's backstory is that he was an evil druid who tried to take over/destroy the world, and that he abused magic for the sake of self empowerment and genocide. That's about it.

As for the redeeming qualities, he's got nothing to his name. In fact he makes it clear that he's not a people person, seeing things such as love, friendship and even pragmatic alliances to be a sign of weakness. He teaches this to Bandon by effectively resurrecting his girlfriend, all but turning her into his sex slave to have Bandon kill her, just to show that love is a delusion. He does seem shocked when Bandon turns against him, mostly because he didn't see it coming, after which he murders Bandon and gets strait to business.

Heinous Standard

Now once again, this show is pretty much it's own entity at this point, and isn't going to adapt later books of the Shannara series, since it's telling it's own story. In other words, Rimmer Dall; The Morgawr and Cree Bega; Mischa are unlikely to exist or appear in this show.

That being said, the show has a high heinous standard, especially in the second season with Riba as leader of the Crimson, a cruel Knight Templar who seeks to commit genocide against magical people, being and their sympathizers, which includes Rape, Pillage, and Burn at times and even the murder of children. However he doesn't count due to claims of loving his men, and his pregnant wife, both of whom died as the hands of the Dagda Mor's army in the previous season. While his later actions imply that Riba is power hungry as well, he doesn't do or say anything to subvert those redeeming qualities and acts Affably Evil to those who play by his rules. Basically the Warlock Lord and Riba are two sides of the coin in villainy this season.

However the show makes it clear that the Warlock Lord is the bigger threat, with the Warlock Lord putting Riba and his army in his place. In fact, the Warlock Lord is basically the Crimson's fears and claims brought to life about how magic is a threat and must be purged (they are wrong in their claims of course but the point still stands) with the Warlock Lord telling Riba how dark magic will consume the land.

Essentially the Warlock Lord's true competition is with the Dagda Mor, who doesn't count due to having the impaired agency the Warlock Lord had in the books, as well as being a Orcus on His Throne Generic Doomsday Villain. The show version of the Warlock Lord, once again as the agency issue pretty much written out, and in contrast to the Dagda Mor, has a clear personality (albeit one or two dimensional in that regard) and gets strait to business once he wakes up. The Dagda Mor's heinousness basically amounted to him leading a demon invasion, and in visions of his victory, pretty much turn the world into a graveyard. The Warlock Lord is also an apocalyptic threat, planning to turn the world into his own dark image, filled with death, torment and slavery of those he lords over. In addition to this, the Warlock Lord has a hefty personal bodycount and then there's Catania's brainwashing and possible rape.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104239: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:41:21 PM

And one last thing: The Last Jedi is gonna be a big discussion. My My recommendation if you've got an EP? Wait until the talks die down. I imagine there will be a lot of controversy and I don't want candidates being buried.

Oh, that's a shame. I've still got like nine characters I need to crap out before my batch... of course, there's also the small fact that I'm one half of the people presenting discussion on TLJ tomorrow.

I... guess I'll say yea to the Warlock Lord if characters like Cree aren't running around in the same setting.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104240: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:46:33 PM

[up] 9 more? Holy crap dude, you already have 9, plus the Bile and TAO rewrites.

[tup] Shannara dude. Second CM for Manu Bennett, who also played the oh-so-contentious Azog.

edited 28th Dec '17 3:51:56 PM by ACW

speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#104241: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:52:32 PM

Definite [tup] to Thanatos. I was under the impression he was voted up in the past, but later removed for some reason...while I'm not sure why, my guess is that people confused him for being the same character as the Masked Mage from Seiken Densetsu 3 (due to them both having "Dark Lich" as their final forms), who is firmly a Tragic Villain. But I agree with you, Scraggle, in that there is nothing at all to suggest they are one and the same, so my up vote stands.

I guess this will be the first CM from the Mana series? I'm interested to see what other proposals you'll have in store for later. For what it's worth, I feel like this topic has in the past gone over the various baddies from SD3 and determined that none of them count, for various reasons, but I'm still curious to see what you'll get up to with that.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104242: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:52:44 PM

I'm probably going to get up one more proposal before we start discussion tomorrow... that'll be another one from the Mana series, specifically from its manga. From there? I'm going to be taking on the games which still might have like at least four more keepers... and that's not including Jiin, Cloth, that one version of the Joker, TAO himself, the two Lynch keeps I still have to get to, possibly a version of Baron Harkonnen...

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104243: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:55:54 PM

Ah right, book!Joker.

Is this Jiin (a search also turned up this, but I doubt that's it)? I've no idea who Cloth is.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104245: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:57:09 PM

Aye. Zoids!Jiin has been on the plate for months as well, actually... I meant to start the show around early January, when I was finishing up with Roswell Conspiracies.

speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#104246: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:58:26 PM

Sounds good. Never read the mangas myself, and I've only played the first five games in the series (taking Sword of Mana as a separate game from FFA). I'm kinda curious to see who your proposed candidate(s) from SD3 is/are, but maybe we should take this to PM instead.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104247: Dec 28th 2017 at 3:59:16 PM

[up][up] Hey, it took me like over a year to get around to proposing Hayman Vasher, so yeah. [lol]

edited 28th Dec '17 3:59:30 PM by ACW

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#104248: Dec 28th 2017 at 4:07:51 PM

By all means, propose what you want.

But I definitely wouldn't want to court discussion on... just about anything when we're discussing the next big film in what is probably humanity's most popular franchise. Especially since I think it will be a very challenging time. I have very strong feelings myself, and know of others with opposing strong feelings.

So I ain't suggesting The Dread of Lickwood nee Azathothian until we resolve that dar Star Wars.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#104249: Dec 28th 2017 at 4:08:03 PM

By tomorrow, I'm guessing midnight?

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104250: Dec 28th 2017 at 4:09:11 PM

[tup]Warlock Lord.

Also, may I propose this possible image for Budzo?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.

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