During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Doctor (Not that Doctor)
My next EP for today...
What's the work?
The Terror is a novel by Dan Simmons that blends horror and historical fiction. The setting? The lost 1845 voyages of the HMS Terror and HMS Erebus to explore the Northwest passage. In real life, the ships were trapped in the ice, the crews dying of starvation and scurvy...in this novel? Something monstrous is loose in the arctic, hunting them. Captain Crozier of the Terror struggles to keep order, the crew also freaked out by the mysterious 'Lady Silence', an Esquimax woman without her tongue on their voyage, as the bodies pile...
So, who is our monster?
Cornelius Hickey is a small, ratlike sailor without morality or conscience. A clever, vicious little man who seduces and enters into a sexual relationship with the massive, slow-witted Magnus Mason, Hickey has spent his life using, manipulating and discarding others. When he is flogged for offenses, and caught in the act with Mason by shipsman Irving (who doesn't really tell anyone), Hickey decides to seize power for himself.
Now, things are getting bad. The crews have departed the ships to make camps, but are helplessly lost in the wild arctic. The local Esquimax, however, find Irving who befriends them, realizing they can help the crews survive in the arctic. Hickey puts his plans into motion....Irving finds Hickey naked and dancing and assumes he's gone insane, only for Hickey to slash his throat and mutilate the corpse. Being naked? Meant he got no blood on his clothes. And dancing kept him from freezing. Hickey frames the Inuits, prompting the crew to massacre them. Deciding to strike out, Hickey convinces a group to mutiny against Crozier and the others. The result is a massacre. Henry Goodsir, the ship's doctor is held as a captive and tortured as he has a special role: to carve up the corpses of Hickey's victims for meat. Hickey begins glorying in his actions, viewing himself as a God as he slips further into brutal megalomania. He begins murdering the rest of Crozier's loyal men, even killing Crozier's best friend and second in command and throwing his arm to Crozier, mocking him about the guy being his 'strong righthand.''
Hickey continues to mistreat and torture Goodsir to comply with his orders, killing and cannibalizing more men. Crozier manages to fatally wound Mason and escape, though Hickey tries to murder him. Goodsir kills himself to escape more torture and eventual murder from Hickey, while Hickey's men are then picked off by the monster until only Hickey is left, now fully insane and believing he's truly a god. The monster ends up killing Hickey at the end, with only Crozier surviving and ending up with Lady Silence, becoming a sixam ieua, a shaman of the Inuit...the monster is the Tuunbaq, a creature created by the Inuit goddess Sedna to punish the spirits, who fought with it for 10,000 years. It now haunts the arctic, preying on the souls of humans, with only the shamans able to ward it off.
So, heinousness?
Worst in series, minus the Tuunbaq. Hickey is the most evil human there who directs all the bad stuff from the human side with a lengthy body count.
Mitigating Qualities?
Ok, Hickey goes fucking nuts as the book goes on to the point he genuinely believes he's a god with the power of life and death. Before this, however, he's still a sociopathic, sadistic little prick with absolutely no conscience or compunction with manipulating and destroying others for fun or profit.
Regarding Manson, Hickey is freaked when Manson is wounded by Crozier and wants Goodsir to save him, but Hickey's own POV from earlier in the book reveals he sees Manson as just pleasurable fun and a useful idiot who can be aimed and directed as need be (Manson is harmless without someone like Hickey convincing him to hurt others), without real love in his thoughts.
Now, while the circumstances they're in are bad....Hickey actively sabotages attempts to better their situation, has the people who could help them murdered and resorts to mass murder and cannibalism so he can keep power. He's so rotten the Tuunbaq doesn't even eat his soul, finding it flatly unappetizing.
Conclusion?
I'd say keeper.
Hickey. Humans Are the Real Monsters indeed. So with Mason, it's less that he lost a loved one, more that he lost a sex toy and weapon?
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Just clarifying.
edited 27th Dec '17 12:37:39 PM by ACW
Ah yours is Shogo Makishima himself.
My image is Elias Ainsworth and Chise Hanotori from The Ancient Magus' Bride
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."miraculous, I'm not so sure. The film is a TOTALLY separate continuity, and even suffered Creator Backlash from Joss himself.
