During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
]You know Maderame also from Persona 5 was also close to getting a EP himself but didn’t go through due to his Pet the Dog moment however when I took a look I noticed it could simply be Pragmatic Villainy. I found this scripture to support my claim.
While it is treated as a potential Pet the Dog moment, him trying to save Yusuke as a child could easily be seen as him not letting his potential golden goose die
Would that be enough to warrant an EP
Virtus and Bomber Kid
to Kaneshiro
edited 2nd Dec '17 1:56:34 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffHere it is guys, the last Cutey Honey effort post, at least for now. This candidate is probably going to divide some, but I'll give it a shot.
What Is the Work?
Re: Cutie Honey is a raunchy 3 episode OVA animated by Gainax, and was created as a tie-in for the 2004 Hideaki Anno movie. The plot follows the movie’s for the most part, however, there are some differences, mainly in the main villain.
Who Is she?
Sister Jill is the Big Bad, and the leader/creator of Panther Claw.
What has she done?
Jill started out as a prototype to Cutie Honey, and was put away following the current Honey’s success. Somehow, she got out and slaughtered all of the scientists.
She created the Panther Claw organization and its kaijins, Gold, Black, Cobalt, and Scarlet, as a way to spread terror and fear, wanting to destroy civilization and emotion because she doesn’t want to go through the confusion of trying to adapt to society like Honey did. She ultimately wants to kill humanity’s will and destroy Japan by sending out her four main kaijins to cause havoc across the city. She wants Honey for herself so that she can absorb her to gain eternal youth.
In Episode 1, she lets her kaijin Gold be kidnapped so that she can destroy a police station to get rid of the cops and release all of her other minions from their cells so they can join in the destruction and chaos.
In Episode 2, she approves of Scarlet Claw’s plan to frame Honey and make the public view her as a menace to society. She also approves of Scarlet’s plan to capture every woman who looks like Honey and kill them until the real Honey shows herself. When Scarlet kills Cobalt, Cobalt’s nanomachines (that look like ashes) cover Honey; this causes Jill to take over Honey’s heart, slowly destroying it, along with mind raping her as well. While Honey manages to stop her, Jill’s plan ends up causing Honey’s nanomachines to multiply and malfunction, resulting in Honey having to be rebooted. She then has Black Claw kidnap the women Scarlet and Cobalt captured (all 10,000 of them).
In Episode 3, Jill uses those 10,000 women to fuel her base, the Jill Tree via their lustful orgasms. When Black wants to be recognized by Jill, she gives her the cold shoulder, seeing her as a tool that has done its job. When Honey and Natsuko break in to the Tree, Jill has her butler, who is meant to look like the deceased Professor Kisiragi, Honey’s dad, attempt to not only mentally break Honey, but also kill Natsuko. After watching Honey throughout the series, Jill decides to absorb her not only for youth, but also because the two can become one powerful being controlled by Jill (so kind of like a fusion dance). Jill now wants everyone in the world to become exactly like her: an emotionless shell who can’t feel things like confusion or sadness. With Honey now within her grasp, Jill uses her to spread roots around the world and sprout giant Trees just like hers. When she sees Natsuko and Seiji in a plane trying to save Honey, Jill sees Honey wanting to be rescued. Pissed, Jill takes control of her Tree as it turns into a giant dragon monster that attempts to kill the two. Honey is then saved by Natsuko, and the two rush to defeat Jill once and for all.
Honey slays Jill’s butler, knowing that it’s not her real father, since he called her an android. Honey marches toward a terrified Jill, who breaks down and attacks Honey the closer she gets. When Honey gets right up to her, it looks like we get an excuse for Jill: she is lonely, and hates it. Wanting a better future for her, Honey decides to combine herself with Jill so that Jill can be more like Honey. Suddenly, Jill becomes furious, pulling out of Honey and staggering backwards. She hates the idea of changing, preferring to being alone and remain her awful self. To make matters worse, Jill forces the Japanese military to launch a nuclear missile to take Honey, and to an extent, the entire town, with her to the grave. To Jill, dying as herself is better than changing.
So to recap, this is a person (or android to be specific) who throws whatever good qualities they had out the window just because they don’t want to change.
So the missile ends up hitting the Tree and taking the whole city out… except it doesn’t. Honey uses her nanomachine powers to absorb the blast into herself, protecting everyone. Jill herself vanishes during this scene; we don’t know if she dies, or escapes.
Redeeming Qualities?
While she has a love for Honey near the end, it’s more of a shallow obsession, only needing Honey because she wanted to absorb her, combine their powers, and take control of her. She rejects anything close to a semblance of love when Honey is saved by Natsuko, and when Honey wants her to change. She’s pretty complex for this franchise.
While you can make the case that she’s an android designed to be emotionless, that doesn’t mean she has to be evil.
Heinousness?
Panther Zora is absent in this incarnation, so she ends up being the creator of Panther Claw. She stands out as the most evil incarnation of Sister Jill, having zero of her redeeming qualities (whatever they may be), and is portrayed as a stone cold egotistical sociopath.
Conclusion
I think she’s a keep.
Before you ask, in the movie, she doesn’t count, as she pulls a heel-face turn before decaying into a seed (don’t ask). However, this version of her doesn’t have that moment, leaving her as a sociopath who thinks that she should be the center of the world and its people because she’s alone (kind of makes her egotistical).
edited 2nd Dec '17 3:26:57 PM by therealjackieboy
It's Spooky Month!
Jill. This seems like a case where there might be a Freudian Excuse, but Honey was made the same way, and didn't turn out evil. So we went in a few weeks from having 1 to having 7 for the franchise.
Any good images and/or quotes?
BTW, I'll submit Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles tomorrow.
edited 2nd Dec '17 4:06:59 PM by ACW
Also both Madarame and Kaneshiro has understandable reasons for their action. Madarame out of ambition when he couldn't achieve anything after his hard work, and Kaneshiro for also going through the same party has, and only desires to do same to others believing that's the only way that he could find success. True their bad, but they were shape like that by a misguided and a pretty shitty society.
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleHas anyone submitted Philip Blake, aka the Governor, from The Walking Dead?
He qualifies in the comics and he's listed near the bottom of Comic Books. He doesn't qualify in the series due to a complication of some redeeming qualities.
Jill
@Arch Teryx I'll ditto on what 43110 said
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Thanks to Lighty for providing a second opinion on this one...
What's the work?
Batman: Thrillkiller is an Elseworlds work where Bruce Wayne is a detective whose family lost their fortune before his parents were killed. Barbara Gordon is the Commissioner's daughter and currently using the former Wayne manor to run a crime-fighting operation, herself as Batgirl and Rickart Graustark as Robin. Bruce Wayne is assigned to try and arrest the two vigilantes... of course this just sets him down the path to becoming Batman.
Today we're discussing the version of a classic Batman villain.
Who is Bianca? What has she done?
A gender flipped version of The Joker, Bianca Steeplechase is a violent drug lord, as she demonstrates by nearly drowning a man, trying to force him to start using her as his supplier. Robin, in this tale a former acrobat from a family troupe, the Graustark, Bianca, knowing his past, schedules them to perform in Gotham, before bombing their trapeze performance, sending them all plummeting to their deaths. Kidnapping the wife and children of a newspaper editor, Bianca has Selina Kyle and a club bouncer killed, forcing the editor that they were Batgirl and Robin, to make it look like she defeated the masked duo. When Batgirl and Robin go to fight her in a club full of criminals, Bianca gives a painful Kiss of Death to Robin from poison coated on her tongue, a cruelty she later mocks Batgirl for.
Although her cronies are all arrested, Biana escapes and resurfaces months later, disguised as Blanca Gregory, wife of the mayor. Teaming up with former Nazi scientist, Otto Saunders, Bianca produces a drug to get the youth of Gotham hooked on, hoping to take over the city politically while she profits and enjoys the suffering her drug causes. When Otto starts getting friendly with FBI agent Dinah Drake, Bianca orders him to kill her. As Otto tries to do so, Batman and Batgirl (now dressed as Robin in memory of him) break in to fight her. Capturing Bruce, Bianca has Otto torture him before Batgirl frees him and they engage, falling into water and drowning Bianca though she manages to corrupt a young teenager into becoming a violent criminal who will clearly become Harley Quinn.
Heinousness?
This is what I was hesitating on but as I type her up, it dawns on me that she is pretty horrible—we see a kid messed up off her drugs and it's clear it's destroying lives, plus she's (violently) trying to get it in the hands of all the youth which is a pretty nasty endgoal. I'm leaning to pass here.
Mitigating factors?
None, she's not a straight up Bad Boss or anything but she never bats an eye when her cohorts are killed or arrested. Similarly, with Harley she's nice to her but makes it clear she's just drawn to the psychopathy lying inside the girl.
Verdict
Wasn't sure at first but I think I'm leaning keep now.
Bianca is kind of an edge case, from what I read, but I'd still say she qualifies.
Here's my early draft (and if posting it isn't appropriate, my apologies in advance):
- Griffin Ranger: Deverall is the Evilutionary Biologist commissioned by the Big Bad Duumvirate of Whitehead and Russell. His job: To develop and ultimately release a genocidal plague to kill all griffins and their hanz servants. He takes the job enthusiastically, provided with griffins (and all the other sentient species) kidnapped from griffin!Earth and sent through Whitehead's dimensional gate to human!Earth. Despite knowing that the griffins he was working with were fully self-aware and intelligent beings, he subjects the captives to a never-ending Trauma Conga Line, forcing them to rape one other to produce the eggs needed to incubate the virus, and using Cold-Blooded Torture to keep them in line. Then, when they become infertile, insane, or too crippled to mate, he removes and murders them by injecting them with test strains of the plague - over, and over, and over again, until one finally proves fatal. The greenie Sharkan-eet says it flatly: No griffin leaves there alive. He treats the vet and lab techs no better, lying to them about the intelligence of the griffins, something which gets them mutilated and dismembered when the captives try to fight back. When the cavalry - led by Harrell's ex-mate Vaniss - finally arrives backed by the human police, he electronically locks all the doors and takes the entire building hostage, killing griffin and human police alike, and forcing Vaniss' War Flock to kill nearly everyone in the lab to get to him and the plague. He finally meets his end when one of his own captives, a Not Quite Dead Winter, punches her newly sharpened talons through his leg, forcing him to inject her with the plague he had on him. Pinned by her dead body and bleeding out from an artery cut, he can only lay there as Vaniss sets the building on fire behind him, then ultimately uses explosives to bring the roof crashing down. He gets his Laser-Guided Karma, but Sharkan-eet was right: Their bodies may be alive, but the griffins they were before died in their cages. What emerges is the walking wounded, physically and mentally, and will never truly be free of the chamber of horrors that was Deverall's lab.
edited 2nd Dec '17 7:46:56 PM by ArchTeryx
WOW! This would be the Joker's 20th incarnation to qualify. Yep, 20. 2-0. That's quite a milestone.
And congratulations to 4311 for finding it.
to Bianca.
edited 2nd Dec '17 8:47:09 PM by bobg
jjjGot another contender for you guys.
What is the work?
Nightmare House is a mod for Half-Life Two and is goddamn terrifying for a mod. Thus, it became popular.
It's known for being very much a mind screw and some excellent gameplay, but a weak story. The story is you, the Patient, have crashed next to haunted house, and are pursued by this ghost woman. When you reach a mental hospital after fighting off zombies, you get aid from Doctor George Romero to try and escape.
Our subject today is....Doctor George Romero.
Who is he and what has he done?
In the past, the doctor and his wife, Emily, the ghost woman, were Happily Married. Sweet, but he wouldn't be here if that was still the case. See, he specialized in a very specific field of research.
Mind control, engineering and resurrecting the dead.
You can see where this is going now, can't you?
In one of his experiments, he accidentally killed his wife, and tried to revive her several times. However, he only brought back her vengeful spirit. So, he fled to Never Lose Hope Hospital, and hide there, building a machine called the Core, which was his life's work, to keep Emily at bay.
On the people in the hospital, obviously. This machine, the Core, causes hallucinations in people, hallucinations which outright can kill.
When he learns the Patient has arrived after crashing near his house thanks to Emily, he realizes she is here and decided to act. And by act, I mean he built the machine, the Core, which ended up killing everyone and creating zombies, turning the Never Lose Hope Hospital into a hellhole, with only the Patient still alive. He did this because he didn't want others learning of his past, and out of paranoia. Pretty much. He tries to justify it, saying it was self-defence, subverting his brief My God, What Have I Done? moment in the end, pretty much blaming the people he killed for his actions.
After this, he becomes increasingly paranoid about the Patient because he can't affect them, knowing Emily is protecting him. Eventually, he takes an axe and decides to just kill the Patient while he is in a coma, but chickens out because of Emily. Instead, he runs into Joe, the chef, and kills him. He shows no remorse by this point, saying Joe was a terrible chef.
Eventually, he wakes up the Patient, as he needs a test subject for the Core, and the Patient is right there. Low and behold, a SWAT team ends up showing up to take him out for what he has done, teaming up with the Patient.
So, he, having befriended the Patient, has him deactivate the radio room, letting him use the Core on the SWAT team, mind raping them all to death and causing their helicopter to crash.
At one point, he takes the risk to try and offer the Patient the chance to leave....but he knows that Emily will kill the Patient if he leaves without killing the doctor.
In the final battle, he tried to mind rape the Patient to death with the Core as he tries to destroy it, bragging about killing the SWAT team.
Heinousness?
The true Big Bad of the game, he sets the standard and makes it very high indeed.
Mitigating Factors?
Every chance that shows a redeeming quality of him is eventually subverted in the end. His logs reveal him trying to cover up his accidental killing of Emily and his increasing paranoia. I honestly wonder how accidental Emily's death was.
He never takes any responsibility for his actions at all, blaming others for it, and as the situation gets worse, just questions what he has gotten himself into. He may have felt guilt about Emily's death, but by the end, this is meaningless when compared to everything else he did, just to try and save himself from her wrath. Whatever affection he had for her is long gone by the beginning of the game. In the end, his motivation is For Science! by finding a way to control the mind.
Furthermore, his behavior in the final battle shows him to be very entertained by the Patient's attempts to fight off the hallucinations he sends, believing them to futile. He even wishes he had popcorn as he watches a man fight for his life. He has become a Psychopathic Manchild. Heck, at one point, when the Patient pulls a switch to try and destroy the Core, he just goes "don't touch that, everything here is mine!"
When Emily shows up to finish him off, he goes says he is sorry for everything he has done, trying to justify it as being all for her....despite having tried to keep her at bay the entire game and since before that.
EDIT: Did more research. Yeah, it's implied he used the mind control experiments on Emily, driving her to suicide.
The game does have a rather weak story overall, but is entertaining nonetheless for the gameplay.
Conclusion
A real keeper. He goes from the Patient's friend to a childish sociopath gleefully trying to kill him.
edited 2nd Dec '17 9:03:53 PM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.

edited 2nd Dec '17 1:38:05 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."