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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#101501: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:17:58 AM

The stuff with Makoto and Sae are the worst things Kaneshiro seems to do. The blackmailing is more Fridge Horror than anything else. The stuff with Makoto pushes him over the Moral Event Horizon but not quite into CM territory.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#101502: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:28:41 AM

[tdown]Kaneshiro. Just simply not bad enough.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#101503: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:37:42 AM

[tdown] Yakuza dude from game I haven't played yet.

So here's the penultimate effort post from my Cutey Honey binge.

What Is the Work?

Cutie Honey: Tenno Densetsu is the 5-chapter sequel to the manga Cutie Honey 90’s, which is also a sequel to the original 1973 manga. Taking place in the futuristic year of 2005, we follow the adventures of Seiko Hayami, the daughter of reporter Seiji Hayami, as she fights crime with Kyu-chan, a man who is afraid of women, who is actually Cutey Honey in disguise.

I just want to remind you that the Cutey Honey manga-verse is different compared to the separate anime-verse. But anyway, the series is a Case of the Week kind of story, where the two must solve a case and stop the villain. Recurring characters like Sister Jill and Panther Zora appear and do bad things. However, they don’t compare to this guy.

Who Is he?

Junji Ogimori aka Bomber Kid is an obsessed, psychopathic Tokusatsu fan, and Mad Bomber extraordinaire who only appears in one chapter as a Villain of the Week.

What has he done?

Originally an insane fan of the Ultra Rangers who obtained timetables of shootings, he started stalking the sets, taking pictures, and expressing his own insane opinions on the way he thinks the show should be going. He thinks that the show’s villains should become more monstrous, evil, and perverted, even wanting a villain to actually blow up the heroes once they defeat him.

Later given a job by the show’s studio, he started harassing the show’s stuntwoman/suit actor Saori Fukazawa, known for portraying Ultrapink, causing the staff to hate him. Banned from participating in the filming, he began stalking Saori after dark, leading to his arrest. Later released from jail, he began hating Saori, seeing what she did as a betrayal to her #1 fan. When Saori tries to calmly tell that she already has a boyfriend, Junji loses it, running away screaming, wanting to take revenge on society.

A former construction member, he steals a quarry’s box of dynamite to cause terrorism. He plants dynamite around the park, department store, and train station and sets them off. They don’t actually kill anyone (they, at worse, cause injuries), but that was mainly so he can give the citizens a taste of what’s to come.

He walks up to a very crowded area dressed as a Tokusatsu hero strapped with dynamite and lights a stick of it while introducing himself to the crowd as Bomb Kid, the Superhero Bomber, all while declaring himself to the people as the culprit behind the bombings. Seeing no reason for people to live and wanting to take everyone with him, he chucks a lit stick of dynamite into the crowd, killing some and injuring others.

Later seen taking a restaurant of dozens hostage, he straps dynamite to a waiter and forces him to tell the cops that Junji demands Saori or else he’ll blow everyone up. He ultimately wants to do this so that they can both die together in one firey explosion. He then lights the dynamite strapped to the waiter and watches as he blows up and kills some of the surrounding cops.

When Cutey Honey shows up dressed as Ultrapink, Junji walks out the restaurant holding a maid hostage, seeing through Honey’s disguise, though he ends up becoming distracted when Honey starts stripping down, letting the hostage go while he’s too busy ogling at Honey. He lights the dynamite strapped to him on fire and runs toward Honey to commit suicide with her, thinking that she’s Saori. Honey instead picks him up, levitates him into the air, and drops him. Crying out for his mama, Junji dies in a firey explosion.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. His love for Saori is portrayed as a lustful obsession, and he was shown as a psycho even before his breakdown. The whole mama crying thing doesn't mean he likes his mom; it's just a stock phrase that many villains say when they're about to either be seriously hurt or killed.

Heinousness?

One of the worst in the manga, right up there with Sister Jill and Panther Zora, and compared to the Cutey Honey franchise, he stands out as being unique, especially for someone who appears in only one chapter, especially when he’s just a normal human without any powers, meaning that he has fewer resources than other Cutey Honey villains.

He also has to compete with the previous chapter’s villain, a muscular wrestler named Bulldozer Hoshi who murders people and almost rapes Seiko, but that guy started out decent, and only became bad when he started getting addicted to performance enhancing drugs. Junji meanwhile, didn’t have any morals before he lost it.

Conclusion

I think he counts. In the end, Junji’s just a sick, demented pervert willing to murder people because of his hatred for life. He’s one of the two villains to die in this manga series, with the others either being incarcerated, or getting away with it.

edited 2nd Dec '17 9:48:15 AM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101504: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:38:17 AM

jackie: Please add to the Drafts in the appropriate location.

As for CMs who aren't a Big Bad: Look at Bullseye. He's a Psycho for Hire, who works for various criminals, but takes WAY too much pleasure in killing.

[tup] the Mad Bomber dude.

edited 2nd Dec '17 9:39:25 AM by ACW

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101505: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:41:31 AM

[tdown]kansehiro

As Shin Megami Tensei Persona series has Jun kurosou/Joker from Persona 2 who helped end the world and tutsou tried to create a new world as well in the next game, Shuji killed dozens maybe hundreds of people in Persona 3, Adachi was an attempted rapist and Serial Killer who became a Straw Nihilist who tried to end the world because he was bored in Persona 4 and Persona 5 had Kamoshida who was a Serial Rapist of young girls and Shido who used the metaverse to carry out assassinations.

Nothing he does stands out from these people especially when Adachi and Jun kurosou both pulled a Heel–Face Turn. Thankfully both are Physical God s so won't effect who we have.

[tup]Mad Bomber dude though

edited 2nd Dec '17 11:45:04 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101506: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:48:04 AM

Yea....Switching a [tdown] to Kaneshiro but I'll give a [tup] to Junji

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#101507: Dec 2nd 2017 at 9:50:21 AM

[tup] Deverall, Virtus, Bomber Kid.

[tdown] Kaneshiro. Virtually everything he does is Offscreen Villainy.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#101508: Dec 2nd 2017 at 10:02:49 AM

[tup] to Deverall.

Even by this tropes standards, that bit about killing someone by forcing them to give birth repeatedly in ways their body couldn't handle, is a special kind of horrible.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101509: Dec 2nd 2017 at 11:19:24 AM

[up][up]That and kaneshiro does far too little considering he needs to be compared to villains from the previous games and with the resources test he'd need to be worse than kamoshida (who's on a much lower resource scale) which he isn't .

Also on a side note but 1,500 posts in just a few days. Congratulations guys if we keep this up than 150 000 posts will be here really shortly.

EDIT : Also you said you wanted to reserve Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey redux. So I'll put your name down for it.

edited 2nd Dec '17 11:40:29 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101510: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:08:26 PM

Oh, ACW, could you request to cut Otoya Takechi when you do this week's batch? I think general consensus is to cut now and I haven't seen any defense.

ArchTeryx Since: Dec, 2009
#101511: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:20:01 PM

[up][up][up] To be fair, that bit was an accident. It was malign neglect and ignorance; he basically had every male in the place mate with one female at a time, so the actual eggs generated could have been literally any size. For a hulking White-Shouldered Griffin like Aera, this wasn't a problem. For some itty little Forest-Griffin?

Under much more normal circumstances, pregnant griffins are given intensive prenatal care in hanz medical clinics, and oversized eggs delivered by C-section. Deverall could have easily done the same and had vet techs deliver the oversized eggs, but he simply didn't care enough - he could always requisition replacements from Whitehead.

It didn't stop the other captives having to listen to her turn eggbound and tear herself apart slowly, and of course, her cries of agony just sounded like random screaming to the humans.

edited 2nd Dec '17 12:43:16 PM by ArchTeryx

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101512: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:37:03 PM

[up][up] You know, let me just take care of that one now. I don't know the work, but I'll trust the opinion of those who do and throw my vote in for a cut. I'll also cut the quote now. [nja] Looks like the quote's been cut. I took care of the YMMV.

BTW, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is FINALLY ready for launching grin I got a collage of Kavaxas's soul-stealing, along with a caption. In case anyone is lazy tongue

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/kavaxas.jpg

edited 2nd Dec '17 12:39:30 PM by ACW

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101513: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:40:53 PM

[up]I like it.

It's also the second time that a character played by Mark Hamill is the trope image for a page

edited 2nd Dec '17 12:45:02 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#101514: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:41:31 PM

I have a question-how come Teppei Hojo was cut? Resources a key factor in this trope, so how come he doesn't prove heinous enough for the resources he has? He already has the zero redeeming qualities to go with it, and that's zero in ALL CAPS

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101515: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:44:04 PM

I think we judged his actions not to stand out in the setting even with his limited resources.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#101516: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:46:27 PM

Anymore votes for Junji Ogimori? I have 4[tup] so far.

edited 2nd Dec '17 12:46:44 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#101518: Dec 2nd 2017 at 12:48:54 PM

As the one who proposed her years ago, I have to say that I find it funny that a character got a unanimous [tup] when proposed, but years later, when someone suggests cutting them, they get a unanimous [tdown]. Looking back on it though, I guess I underestimated her Villain Decay. I watched the episode with her killing attempt, and I watched some of the others to get an idea of the heinous standard, but I didn't watch the ones with her following her defeat. I thought there was no need since that one episode was where all of her heinousness stemmed from, and I had read that she does not display any redeeming qualities in any part of the show. Kind of sad to lose her given that great quote she provided. Oh well. I don't know if I could argue against cutting her at this point. The two things that make her worse than the others are her wish for serial killer insurance and the fact that she does not just try to kill Haru but torture her first. That does make her somewhat more heinous than the others, but, even if you were to use those arguments and try to claim a pattern for her status as a serial killer, the way she (allegedly, going by what I am hearing here) reduced to a joke after her episode, makes her unable to stay an example.

I do have good news though, I will soon have a candidate from one of the Robocop shows. I may have more in time. I have been watching them for candidates.

jjj
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#101519: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:03:43 PM

[tup] Virtus and Bomber Kid

[tdown] Kaneshiro

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#101520: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:03:45 PM

I've got 6[tup] and 0[tdown] for Junji, so here's his entry.

  • In a franchise filled with shapeshifters, cyborgs, and magical foes, Junji Ogimori aka Bomber Kid from Chapter 2 stands out as an ordinary human with zero powers. An obsessed fan of the Ultra Rangers, Junji started out as a psycho who stalked the show’s crew after obtaining their timetables, where he took photos and expressed his desire for the show to more edgy. Getting a job as a crewmember, Junji developed a crush on Ultrapink’s stuntwoman, Saori Fukazawa, harassing her every chance he could get, which led him banned from the set, and later arrested after deciding to stalk her every night. After being released and finding out that Saori already has a boyfriend, Junji goes crazy, deciding to take revenge on society. Stealing dynamite from a quarry, Junji places some dynamite in a few locations, injuring many. Dressed as a Sentai hero, Junji walks into a large crowd, declaring himself the culprit of the explosions, and chucks some dynamite, killing and injuring numerous people. Holding dozens in a restaurant hostage, Junji demands Saori so that the two can die in an explosion, blowing up a waiter near some cops. When Honey disguises herself as Ultrapink, Junji holds a maid hostage.

edited 2nd Dec '17 1:08:34 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#101521: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:04:23 PM

[tup] Gargos, Rizevim, Malcolm, LeBlanc, Zora, Scorpion, Deverall, Virtus, Junji

[tdown] Carabosse, Fanfaronade, the bear, Kaneshiro

I would like to make the note that the writeup refers to Zora as a Greater-Scope Villain when all the info about her indicates she's the Big Bad, of The Woman Behind the Man variety.

About Hojo? In terms of child abuse, the orphanage leader blow him out of the water. Even by the resource argument, he doesn't do enough, given the setting.

I like the Turtles picture... wait, does that dude have a hammer on a necklace?!

[down][down][down] Huh, well now that makes more sense.

edited 2nd Dec '17 1:33:10 PM by 43110

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#101522: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:12:07 PM

Also, going to reserve the Bleach novel.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#101523: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:17:35 PM

There's something very meta how the main reason why SMT IV Apocalypse YHVH fails to be a CM is the same thing he uses to avoid getting blame and hatred-Offstage Villainy

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101524: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:23:16 PM

[up][up][up] 43110: I think so. He IS, after all, called the Hammer.

The second Hamill CM to have a page image. Carnage was the first CM to be the image for two separate pages.

edited 2nd Dec '17 1:24:53 PM by ACW

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#101525: Dec 2nd 2017 at 1:31:14 PM

I thought YHVH can't count because of moral agency? Word of God, from what I understand, is that YHVH being evil is a symptom of the SMT verse having something very wrong with it.

Of course, that comes from the SMT Nightmare Fuel page so it's probably wrong. NF really does need its clean up.


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