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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#101352: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:07:43 PM

[tup] Agent Orange and Steppenwolf

edited 1st Dec '17 12:10:14 PM by MenInGreyToBlak

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#101353: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:08:59 PM

I wish I could vote [tdown] to Steppenwolf given how he's so generic that he fails to stand out to me and leaves no lasting impression whatsoever, but by all technicalities he counts in the way the likes of Ronan and Azog did, so a weak [tup] I guess.

When a truly hateful and frighteningly depraved villain like Ghetsis still can't make the cut on the same day that someone like Steppenwolf can, something doesn't feel right to me. But alas, that's just how it goes. tongue

edited 1st Dec '17 12:09:47 PM by ANewMan

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#101355: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:10:07 PM

[up][up] That is actually how I felt about Azog (who you mentioned).

edited 1st Dec '17 12:10:19 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#101356: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:12:32 PM

[tdown] to Steppenwolf. Completely unrelated question: Why is an alien warlord named after the German word for coyote? I would really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me.

What's the problem with Lex? Pleasedon'tkillme...evil grin

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#101357: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:14:09 PM

[tup] for Steppenwolf.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#101358: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:14:27 PM

I have a question, when voting [tdown], does an argument have to be made?

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#101359: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:16:12 PM

Mnnnh.....I just saw Justice League today, and for me.....Steppenwolf doesn't cut it. Even more generic than Ronan was. For me he was a Generic Doomsday Villain in his purest form. A big threat, yes, but he never evoked any outright hatred or despair for me, both in- and out-universe. So a [tdown] from me, though I wouldn't be overly insulted if he should make it or anything.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#101361: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:16:56 PM

[up][up][up] No. Same for if you [tup] as well.

edited 1st Dec '17 12:17:17 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#101362: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:18:34 PM

Yes to Zora, Leblanc, Malcolm, Rawlins In-Name-Only, and Steppen-"I fucking love Mother Boxes"-wolf.

On a related note, I thought Justice League was pretty alright. Kind of a shame that it might very well lead to the death of the DCEU. I wanted to see that Shazam movie goddammit.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#101363: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:19:03 PM

I get Stepp is flat and generic, but I don't see how he's a Generic Doomsday Villain. He has a clear personality, a motive, and even some dark humor at one point.

A better example for a GDC would be Trihexa I mentioned a page or three ago. A being who comes to destroy with no reason or motive.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#101364: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:19:46 PM

[up][up] Don't jump to conclusions yet. Nowhere it has been announced that DCEU is cancelled. I can't wait to watch Aquaman!

edited 1st Dec '17 12:20:02 PM by emperors

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AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#101365: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:20:43 PM

True. He is bland, but he has a personality. [tup] Steppenwolf.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101366: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:20:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]Nah theres still hope as Aquaman is already made and I think shazam, Batman and wonder woman 2 is a safe bet as far as movies go but the others may be in trouble from what I read on sites unless thoose do well.

@lighty : Its not that he's a GDV per say so much as he is a really bland and forgettable villain who may be in the running for worst comic book movie villain of all time. Which is why a few people have down voted him for being so forget able.

edited 1st Dec '17 12:27:49 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#101367: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:21:26 PM

Off-topic, but i doubt it'll lead to the death of the DCEU, but it will certainly shorten the lifespan of it.

edited 1st Dec '17 12:21:46 PM by MenInGreyToBlak

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101368: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:25:43 PM

Yes to Steppenwolf, but by Jove what a bland villain. Easily clears heinousness, but otherwise he just feels like one that makes it through hitting the criteria and not much else, I say.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#101369: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:27:51 PM

As someone who doesn't like the DCEU, I find the doomsaying very strange. I couldn't care less if it goes under, but it isn't the end of the world.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#101370: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:28:47 PM

Who cares about Shazam or that guy who can talk to fish? I’m still waiting for them to announce the first Snowflame movie. cool

Joking aside, DC has a strong fan base. As long as they continue to improve their movies and don’t repeat the same mistakes, the DCEU can become as successful as the MCU. Keep in mind that there were a lot of bad Marvel movies before Iron Man.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101371: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:30:42 PM

"As a note, I can also post a bit of a comparison for the other rawlins"

Please do. I'm curious. And a cut? Please do tell.

I've heard the tone of Justice League is MUCH grimmer than Marvel; almost too grim for a comic (though that DID work for Nolan's trilogy, although it seems Ledger!Joker (the only 1 of the 3 I did see) was MUCH better than Steppenwolf (the only DCEU film I've seen is Wonder Woman)).

edited 1st Dec '17 12:32:07 PM by ACW

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#101372: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:33:28 PM

[tup]Rawlins, Dolmeck, and bland old Steppenwolf. Really dull that guy.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#101373: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:33:30 PM

I for one can honestly say that Justice League was the first DCEU film I liked. If they continue this way, I wish them all the best.

As for Steppenwolf, okay, maybe he has that tiny bit of personality, but I still think he was too generic to count. Like I said, a big threat? Surely. But I just never once thought That guy is an irredeemable scumbag, can't WAIT for him to get his just dessert! I just can't, in good faith, give him a thumbs up and actually mean it.

edited 1st Dec '17 12:33:48 PM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#101374: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:37:50 PM

[tup] to the Cute Honey candidates, Rawlins, and Stephenwolf. And I'm fine with cutting Otoya Takechi

I know MCU Billy Russo doesn't make the cut (at least for now) but what about his comic book counterpart Jigsaw? I have read the Punisher comic book myself, but I know from other sources that he killed Frank's family and became his Arch-Enemy. Plus I'm sure that Jigsaw has got more crimes under his belt.

edited 1st Dec '17 12:39:11 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#101375: Dec 1st 2017 at 12:44:52 PM

Call me a heretic but I enjoyed almost all DCEU movies (except Suicide Squad and theatrical B v S). I think it's strongly underrated.

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