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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101176: Nov 30th 2017 at 6:31:28 AM

I'm wondering if we should have a rule against blatantly propagandistic works that are of low quality.

BTW, has anyone seen The Mighty Ducks? I don't know if any of the villains count, but it wouldn't surprise me, considering said villains are voiced by Tim Curry, Tony Jay, Clancy Brown, and Frank Welker.

edited 30th Nov '17 6:32:13 AM by ACW

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101177: Nov 30th 2017 at 6:52:42 AM

[up]Frank Welker only has 2 though.

Also guys I'm going to watch the Buffy The Vampire Slayer movie as it is now officially non-Canon with slayer : The origin now taking precendence and hence the Big Bad Lothos can now be taken on his own. It's also apparently really bad, so wish me luck.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101178: Nov 30th 2017 at 6:54:19 AM

[up][up] Ravok and me have. Drauganus (Tim Curry's character) passes the heinous standard — surprisingly solidly, actually — but the main problem is tonal inconsistency and how he's played... something of an unavoidable trap given the premise. The case could be made, but I at least don't think anyone counts in the end.

edited 30th Nov '17 6:54:42 AM by Scraggle

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#101179: Nov 30th 2017 at 6:59:01 AM

Alright, I'll do the DXD villain now since I've got the appetites whetted.

What's the series?

Highschool DXD is a fanservice heavy light novel series about a perverted and kindhearted highschool student named Issei Hyodo who ends up in the team of one Rias Gremory, a powerful devil noble, and the ensuing adventures they go through with their friends. Now, long and short of it? All Myths Are True in a nutshell. Devils, angels, fairies, vampires, Norse myths, yokai, dragons...you name it. Oh, and one other thing? Heaven and hell are in a bit of flux because God died some time ago protecting creation from something terrible. The devils have a peace-treaty with heaven, with the devil leaders being the Four Great Satans who managed to win a war with their more militaristic contemporaries...one of those contemporaries is now back. Rizevim Livan Lucifer.

Who is Rizevim?

One of the oldest devils alive, Rizevim is the son of the original Lucifer and Lillith. A Faux Affably Evil sociopath and hedonist. For a long time, Rizevim was a total slacker, not interested in seeking revenge against the Four Great Satans. This changed when he learned of the beast Trihexa, the beast of the Apocalypse God died stopping. This filled Rizevim with ambition for the first time in his life; to unseal Trihexa and use it to destroy the world to rule over what was left.

Oh, and Rizevim had one son, a pureblood devil who married a human and had a son named Vali. Vali's father began to grow fearful of Vali's power and went to Rizevim for advice. For fun? Rizevim forced his son to horrible abuse Vali, and just to make sure he complied, threatened his son's wife with worse harm if he failed to comply. When he got bored of this, Rizevim simply murdered his own son and went on his merry way. He later takes over leadership of the Khaos Brigade, a group Vali led.

First appearing in volume 16 at the castle of the Tepes vampires, Rizevim introduces himself to Issei's team after, with his plans to unseal Trihexa. Having also implanted the vampires working with him with 'seeds,' Rizevim initiates a transformation to mutate them into evil dragons and has them attack and ravage the rest of vampire society.

Over the next volume, Rizevim begins gathering the items he needs for his plan...volume 18? His ego gets the best of him and he leads a direct assault on heaven to destroy it and kill everything he found. Killing one of Issei's friends there, he also tried to kill several of Issei's other love interests, particularly Asia Argento, who's the sweetest and nicest person in series. Thankfully, he was prevented from doing so by the dragon Fafnir. The Archangel Michael then appears and manages to force Rizevim into retreat.

In Volume 20? Rizevim is working to unseal and unleash Trihexa, also using Issei's parents as hostages and forcing Issei to reveal his nonhuman side to them just to be a total dick and get a laugh out of it, resulting in his annoyance when they accept him anyways. Vali and Issei team up against him, resulting in Rizevim trying to murder his grandson, only to get a well deserved Humiliation Konga as he's beaten down, his allies desert him and Fafnir crushes him underfoot and devours him alive while he begs for his life...

....Except as a final 'screw you', Rizevim made it so his soul is used as the final key to revive Trihexa, deciding to take creation with him. Trihexa's defeated, but only at great cost with most of the archangels, Satans and other faction leaders sacrificing themselves to seal it away to fight it for eternity.

Heinous Standard?

Rizevim is quite probably the single most heinous villain in all of DXD. In between his Abusive Parent tendencies, his massive attempted bodycount, his really petty touches and trying to annihilate creation with Trihexa to rule the rest? Head and shoulders above everyone else. Trihexa has no characterization and may not even be sentient. It's basically Generic Doomsday Villain defined as it exists to destroy with nothing else to it.

Mitigating Qualities?

Rizevim is Its All About Me defined. He's a hedonistic sadist whose sole belief is devils are meant to be evil, cruel, and ruin the lives of whoever they come in contact with. He cares nothing for family, allies or anything.

This doesn't fly at all because devils, like every other race, aren't defined by their species. The Four Satans are pretty swell people, one being Rias's elder brother who's a loving husband, father, brother and a super nice person, with Rias's best friend's elder sister being another member who's also a loving older sister and a super pleasant individual...I could keep going for a long time on devils with full redeeming qualities, but I think the point's pretty clear.

Conclusion?

Rizevim is hands down the worst villain thus far in series.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101180: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:02:35 AM

After Looking at VW about whose the H Dx D And seeing The tropes on him....I'll [tup] for Rizevim....I wonder why Loki And Kokabine doesn't count though. Also, hows he compared to the current H Dx D C Ms that got approved

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101181: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:11:25 AM

[tup]Rizevim

Huh so it wasnt anyone we expected.

[down]Uh I didn't say anything as Freed and Diodora are still easy keeps thanks to being a Knight Templar and Serial Rapist respectively which make them stand out.

edited 30th Nov '17 7:26:17 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101182: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:22:48 AM

[tup] Rizevim.

ELF90: Something I've learned the hard way: If it's not mentioned, the other villains still count (with Freed, it seems a different tier and type of villainy: Knight Templar bigot vs. omnicidal devil; Valper seems a mad scientist type; Astaroth is a Serial Rapist).

The other two you mentioned seem bad too though.

[up] Yeah, I had the wrong troper; it's fixed now.

Scraggle: So it's one of those things where the acts are bad enough, but the character's not always taken seriously enough?

BTW, count Orson Welles as another who's both voiced a CM (Unicron in the 1986 movie) and played one.

edited 30th Nov '17 7:34:28 AM by ACW

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101183: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:33:36 AM

@ACW makes sense then.....so resource test and unique crime that makes them qualify amirite. and yea....it would be nice to hear Lighty's opinion on the other two (Im talking about Kokabine and Loki ofc)

edited 30th Nov '17 7:34:19 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101184: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:35:53 AM

[up] Yeah, resources matter a LOT. Otherwise, for DC Comics, Darkseid and Vandal Savage would overshadow pretty much everyone else.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101185: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:38:02 AM

@ACW Btw...I dont want to sound like broken record but what if an image already got approved by the troper. Should I wait for the admins to post it on CM Image page? Just saying.

And as for resource things yeah...I'll agree. If we dont have that, we will not have the likes of Dick Hardly,High Priestess or Ayush Patil

edited 30th Nov '17 7:39:23 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101186: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:39:12 AM

[up][up][up]I think Loki might count as well but I haven't read all of that light novel yet but I think he tried to go back in time and Set Wrong What Once Went Right so he could win this time but was stopped by the chilldred of Issei which could put him over.

[down]What image are you talking about

edited 30th Nov '17 7:41:54 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101187: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:41:00 AM

Oh right, the image. Have it in this format, and I'll take care of it:

  • [[image link]] from work.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101188: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:42:56 AM

[up] Should I add it to the drafts?

Like this right:

Fok Tak Nang from Connected 2008

edited 30th Nov '17 7:44:41 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101189: Nov 30th 2017 at 7:54:09 AM

Yea to Rizevim. Here's my writeups:

  • Green Lantern: Triumph of the Will brings us Ayria, a vicious, corrupt Green Lantern who uses his powers to oppress the residents of Aegri Somnia. Ayria has his forces brutally slaughter their way through the rebelling yellows on Aegri Somnia 2, resulting on millions of casualties on both sides, before establishing a holocaust and sending the yellows who remain into labor camps where they slowly and agonizingly perish by the millions to fuel Ayria's power battery. A paranoid despot unable to take any form of perceived challenge to his rule, Ayria viciously tortures to death several members of his staff – including his own brother – for reasons as varied as apparent treachery to as petty to having no faith in his rule, and ultimately orders every single remaining yellow to be sent to the camps and executed after torturing one who swallows his ring – ultimately resulting in Ayria's downfall when the ring resonates with the dead yellow's will to resurrect the billions Ayria has killed to tear him to bloody shreds. A dictator unrelenting, Ayria proves even the ostensibly righteous Green Lanterns aren't immune to pure evil in their ranks.
  • Hawkman: Onimar-Synn is the strongest of the Seven Devils who plagued the history of Thanagar and one of the planet's greatest and most powerful entities. A soul-devouring demon who nourishes himself on suffering, Synn resurrects countless years after his first defeat and takes over Thanagar, slaughtering its high council and devouring the souls of its populace by the thousands to fuel his undead army, whilst executing thousands more by dropping them from the point of the flying city he takes over. Once more revived by his depraved priest in time for the Rann-Thanagar War, Synn exploits the conflict to devour the dead and dying of Thanagar's populace, impeding the efforts of Kyle Rayner and Adam Strange to stop him by by trying to suffocate hundreds of innocents reserved in storage to slake his appetite, before mounting an assault on Rann to devour its populace as well, slaughtering them by the masses and ultimately striving to use their technology to go on and consume every living soul in the universe.
  • Wonder Woman: Amazonia: King Jack Planters is a seemingly-noble American who takes the throne after a mysterious explosion decimates the entirety of the Royal Family. In truth the notorious Jack the Ripper who rigged the explosion himself after his initial killings, Jack keeps the sole survivor as a paralyzed trophy and plunges his nation into a brutal war with France whilst keeping the women of the country as lower-class citizens. A raving misogynist in his meantime, Jack invents a drug to erase men's “femininity” to reduce them to bloodthirsty beasts and spreads the drug among his inner circle to have them hunt down and butcher captured women for sport, hoping to raise his son as an equally-bloodthirsty heir and laughing that he slaughtered his own wife alongside a hundred others for the purpose of establishing a “Ripper's world” among the land he rules over. Even when Diana herself saves his life from an earlier attack, Jack smugly brushes the matter off by revealing the attempted assassin was a friend of Jack's before he murdered his daughter in a fit of cruel lust, later trying to make Diana herself as the centerpiece of his latest hunt while kidnapping her children to grow up under cruel experimentation.
  • Batman: Holy Terror: Dr. Saul Erdel, the head scientist of Star Chamber, is an amoral mad scientist studying the “para-gene” for the purposes of the theocratic state. To activate the gene after witnessing its effects in the former scientist Barry Allen, Erdel has dozens of people with the gene kidnapped and experimented on, resulting in all of his subjects afflicted with varying states of trauma, insanity, Body Horror, and mental and physical deformation – including a three-year-old he induced rapid aging in to the point of eventual death and a merman he forcefully mated with another mermaid, leading to the mermaid's death in childbirth and the resulting children all being born as agony-stricken mutations. Disintegrating even his favorite project Barry once he stands up, Erdel's most powerful specimen is an alien he calls the Green Man, whom he raised under experimentation and eventually killed via exposure to kryptonite once he grows too strong, showing Batman the Green Man's body with the sole purpose of breaking his hope with a proud smile on his face the whole while.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:13:38 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101190: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:19:05 AM

Scraggle: I know the Batman one goes to the Batman CM page, under the Elseworlds tree; Jack goes to the DC page for other continuities; where exactly do the other 2 go?

And yes ELF90, please add that to the Drafts.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:21:25 AM by ACW

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101191: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:22:48 AM

[up]Ayria will go to the green lantern tree above Nekron as he appeared first while Synn will go in a new entry under Hawkman under Post crisis as that's were he first appeared.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:35:58 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#101193: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:30:39 AM

[tup] Rizevim.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:31:04 AM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#101194: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:35:51 AM

[up][up][up] It actually looks like this version of Ayria is Post-Crisis. The order of the Post-Crisis should probably be something like:

  • Krona (appeared first)
  • Ayria (appeared in 1993)
  • Mongul II (first appeared in 1995)
  • Nekron (appeared in the 80s, but Blackest Night was written in 2009)
Scraggle or anyone else got any opinions either way on that?

edited 30th Nov '17 8:36:56 AM by ACW

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101195: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:35:52 AM

@ACW Sent the image to the drafts....

@Scraggle Also, thanks to you for E Ping Onimar Synn....Will this image from him would work....Recently I googled it and I found this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZFHQJa441Kg4inaOJVuHxP36sWijgVeLZGbEG_dAPCU6o41mX705E7kSu

edited 30th Nov '17 8:36:25 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#101196: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:40:19 AM

@acw : yeah i made a mistake as I thought Scraggle was talking about the New 52 story but then I noticed I was wrong and fixed it. So yeah he'll go post crisis in the Green Lantern tree.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#101197: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:41:36 AM

[tup] Rizevim

So it looks like I guessed wrong huh. So does that mean Loki doesn’t qualify because he has militating factors or has his character arc Not end yet.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:46:22 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101198: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:44:44 AM

No, that works.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:45:01 AM by Scraggle

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#101199: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:46:29 AM

[up] What do you mean by that? Are you referring to the image on why it doesnt work?

[down] Fair enough....I thought you were referring to the Onimar-Synn image that I randomly search on Google [lol]

edited 30th Nov '17 8:54:20 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#101200: Nov 30th 2017 at 8:46:54 AM

Replying to ACW. As for Synn's pic... yeah, I can see that being used.

edited 30th Nov '17 8:47:41 AM by Scraggle


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