TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#100927: Nov 26th 2017 at 3:31:19 PM

[up][up] You're right. Sorry. That's just me not knowing what a certain trope means. Will fix that.

Edit: Fixed it in Drafts.

edited 26th Nov '17 3:33:09 PM by therealjackieboy

It's Spooky Month!
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#100928: Nov 26th 2017 at 4:04:23 PM

[tup] To Gryphon, Tarantula.

@ ACW, I there was also the Tengu Shredder, who I think was voted up, but not really added.

@ Tyk 5919, Yeah, I have read some Mirage and Archie TMNT comics, so I am familiar with the heinous standards in those series. I actually looked into some other Mirage villains (Mirage may be the darkest TMNT comic). There were some other Mirage villains I looked into, that thought may have counted, but discounted for various reasons.

There was a villain named Complete Carnage, who is generic for a lot of his appearances, though he was nursed back to health by a cult and destroyed their building, likely with them in it and in his last appearance he became a serial killer, but lot of stories he is just trying to kill the Turtles and his arch enemy, a hero named Radical and he may compromised moral agency, being the victim of a ancient Native American curse, that transformed him from a human to a monster.

I also looked a villain called the Bloodsucker, a mutant leech who drained some of Raph's mutagen and became sentient and decided to become a serial killer. His body count is not too high, but he does kill a game's warden and wears his clothes and tries to murder 3 children, saying he wants to turn the world into his own hunting grounds, where he can hunt humans at his leisure. The reason he likely does count, is he was the pawn of a river god called Old Man River, who was unhappy with man's pollution and wanted to use the Bloodsucker to punish man, when the Turtles defeat the Bloodsucker and turn it back into a regular leech, they don't seem to blame it for it actions. So I have not read every Mirage issue, but I think have looked into a lot of villains in that series.

I proposed Mirage Baxter Stockman, but he was deemed not quite heinous enough and Mirage Shredder is pretty far away from a monster, IMO. I don't know many Archie villains could be as heinous as Mr. Null.

I have not read the IDW comics and I do not want to read all 154 issues just to see if there is a monster villain.

edited 26th Nov '17 4:07:26 PM by Overlord

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#100929: Nov 26th 2017 at 5:13:46 PM

One more thing about the Gryphon: I was just looking over a transcript of the film, and yeah, it looks like he actually DID kill the baby. Hopefully that should shed light on any doubts anyone might have about upvoting him.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#100930: Nov 26th 2017 at 5:47:58 PM

If I recall correctly, Tengu Shredder had about as much [tup]'s as [tdown]'s, and since writeups don't tend to be made unless there's 5 or 6 more "yea's" than "nay's" no writeup for Tengu Shredder was made.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#100931: Nov 26th 2017 at 6:39:34 PM

[up] I remember the yeas being in the majority with Tengu Shredder by a fair margin, that is my recollection.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#100932: Nov 26th 2017 at 7:01:43 PM

Here is the tally for Tengu Shredder (One was listed here, but a few more votes were made farther down on the page, as well as the next page. After page 3300, no more votes came):

Yes: Overlord, Phi Sat,Polar Phantom, Demon Duckof Doom, G-Editor, Awesomekid 42, Very Melon, Mediawatcher, xie323, Duel Mark, Fried Warthog, Austin DR, Username 2527

No: A New Man, Clown-Face, Tommy Fresh, Scraggle, Ravok, Ambar

Abstaining: Tyk 5919

So yeah, he's a keep. Problem is, someone will have to refresh us on his crimes for a write up.

edited 26th Nov '17 7:18:37 PM by bobg

jjj
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#100933: Nov 26th 2017 at 7:42:14 PM

[up] Fair enough, maybe I will try to find my original proposal for Tengu Shredder.

I have a related question, is Utrom Shredder such a black hole in terms of heinousness, does it make it hard for other villains to count in that show?

I remember that Savanti Romero appears in the 2003 show and had some of the crimes of his Mirage counterpart, like trying to make humanity not exist by making the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs miss Earth, but he had fewer crimes, I don't think his attempted massacres in middle ages Europe or Japan are presented, in his first appearance he gets sidelined by Drago and the Ultimate Ninja, so really the only thing he has is the comet thing and that's really just one act, the Mirage version has more crimes and less competition, in Mirage there are fewer grand epic villains like Utrom or Tengu Shredder present, Romero has way less competition for his tier in Mirage.

edited 26th Nov '17 7:43:24 PM by Overlord

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#100934: Nov 26th 2017 at 8:43:30 PM

You guys thought I was done with mediocre films? Lol, sorry, nope.

What's the work?

Switchback is a thriller film starring Dennis Quaid as FBI Agent Frank LaCrosse, who is tormented by a Serial Killer who enjoys a cat-and-mouse game with him. The killer himself, Bob Goodall (played by Danny Glover) partners up with Mel Gibson for some buddy cop- wait, wrong movie. Sorry, the killer, makes his way through the US, dropping hints for LaCrosse to follow and follow he better because this time, Bob has made it very personal.

Who is Bob? What has he done?

Starting the movie by invading the home of LaCrosse, Bob, whose face is unseen at this point, murders the babysitter while the parents are away and kidnaps their young son, Andy after having a creepy-seeming man talk with the babysitter, later we find out Bob killed him to use as a fall guy. Three months later, he butchers a motel guest and a maid. Picking up the hitchhiking Dr. Lane Dixon, Bob plans to kill and turn him into his next fall guy. Back at the local sheriff's office, LaCrosse, against orders from his superiors, comes to hunt for Bob after his motel killings. He reveals Bob is responsible for at least 18 murders and kills for the thrill of it.

As Bob and Dixon have their car engine repaired in a small town by Bob's old friend Shorty, Bob stows away to a grocery store and prepares to kill the sole clerk before Dixon interrupts by saying their car is ready. Before leaving, Bob notices a cop stopping for gas at Shorty's store and goes back inside, killing his alleged friend, to eliminate a witness. At this point, Bob has taken various acts for Dixon to be the one witnesses associate with his (stolen) vehicle, making him seem like the suspicious one. Later on, the duo board a train Bob had left LaCrosse clues to follow as part of the sadistic game he plays. Onboard the train, Bob's friend Tex makes note of where Bob's matches are from, clueing Dixon into Bob being the killer... Bob immediately kills Tex shortly before fighting Dixon and then LaCrosse when he arrives. Non-fatally slashing Dixon's throat and telling LaCrosse the only way he'll find his son is by killing Bob, they fight before Bob throws himself to his death, laughing as he does so. Fortunately an address Bob had given to Dixon ends up leading them to LaCrosse's son.

Heinousness?

Only villain, sets it and blows it out of the water with his 20+ gruesome murders.

Mitigating factors?

Here's the thing, Bob is extremely Faux Affably Evil. When Dixon almost dies by falling off a cliff, Bob saves him and he keeps LaCrosse's kid alive. The thing about both of these? The former is him setting up Dixon to become his fall guy who he'll kill in a fake suicide to throw off the cops and the latter is nothing more than a thrilling part of his sadistic game to him, as opposed to genuine care for the child. As Bob's interactions with his old "friends" make clear, he's perfectly willing to murder anybody at the drop of a hat if it suits him or he thinks it would be fun.

Verdict

I say keep: he's a sadistic prick with an enormous body count.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#100935: Nov 26th 2017 at 8:45:42 PM

Oh God I remember Tengu shredder. First proper version of oruko saki that counts rather than a composite character with kraang / worm shredder like Chrell.

Since I'm a little late to the party I'll throw a late [tup]Tengu shredder. Also yeah since he also counts should probable keep that tmnt tree in the drafts as we have 2 possible pending write-ups with dregg and one definite one that will be added

So 14[tup] and 6 [tdown]. Is definitely enough for a keep so I'll alter the tree in the drafts. I think I'll slightly tweak chrells entry to make it looks like how Megatron and Tarantala entries look in that Megatrons entry just has a link to beast machines within it, so I'll do the same for Chrell and Turtles Forever in the drafts.

@acw: Add Tengu shredder from TMNT 2003 to the pending write-ups. So overlord can do his write-up when he has some spare time and we don't forget.

edited 26th Nov '17 9:52:22 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#100936: Nov 26th 2017 at 8:47:26 PM

One more thing? When I said he non-fatally slit Dixon's throat... I should add that it's really not clear if he gets saved from his wound, really not looking good for the guy last we see of him.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#100937: Nov 26th 2017 at 8:50:59 PM

I'm damn certain someone (I think Lighty?) brought this flick to me in PM months ago... and I'm damn certain I ultimately said no because of him sparing Andy and keeping him alive even when it comes to a point where there's absolutely no reason for him to keep the kid alive. I'm... going to have to hang onto my nay vote unless I get a solid counterargument on that point.

Can't go wrong with Danny Glover, though. Saw the guy at a con a few years ago.

edited 26th Nov '17 8:51:52 PM by Scraggle

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#100938: Nov 26th 2017 at 8:58:31 PM

What I felt was that he more or less just didn't care about Andy himself and set up the whole finding him as a game with LaCrosse and given that he slashed the throat of the only man who knew the address, he seemed pretty willing to let them be separated forever. I could be wrong but I just sensed apathy towards Andy.

[down] I believe so.

edited 26th Nov '17 9:02:05 PM by 43110

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#100939: Nov 26th 2017 at 8:59:07 PM

[tup] Bob. This Danny Glover's Second CM?

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#100940: Nov 26th 2017 at 9:06:22 PM

[tup]Bob.

Sound like he was just playing a sick game like you said. Also Danny Glover has CM's I'd be surprised but with how accomplished an actor he is, it kinda makes sense.

It seems Christopher Lee will remain that one person who strangely doesn't have an example despite how accomplished he was. It's possible he may have one but it'll probably be from something obscure like Martin Newman for Keith Carradine.

edited 26th Nov '17 10:09:39 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#100941: Nov 26th 2017 at 9:11:02 PM

[tup]Bob and Tengu Shredder.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#100942: Nov 26th 2017 at 10:01:52 PM

[tup]Bob.

Danny Glover non-fatally throat-slashing someone is a little Hilarious in Hindsight, is it not? Or is it Harsher in Hindsight?

edited 26th Nov '17 10:03:07 PM by Stellarvore

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#100943: Nov 26th 2017 at 11:13:01 PM

I'll throw in a late [tup] for Tengu Shredder too.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#100944: Nov 26th 2017 at 11:21:59 PM

My main hangup with Tengu Shredder continues to worry me and I'd like people to consider it too before throwing in a bunch of yes votes... does he really stand out in comparison to Utrom Shredder? The same Shredder with millions of bodies on his hands, vast counts of horrible murder and torture, the attempted decimation of entire cities, a laundry list a mile long even without factoring in his ultimate attempt to destroy the entire multiverse... does Tengu actually genuinely stand out compared to that?

This isn't a resources thing, either. Tengu Shredder is still a hugely powerful demon capable of turning an entire planet into a hellscape with his full powers. Aside from his ultimate plot and turning New York into a demon pit, though, I can't think of one action on Tengu's rapsheet that comes close to measuring up to Ch'rell.

I'm still a firm, firm nay, and I'd really like people to reevaluate the heinous standard before voting. I'm not going to contest upvotes, but when measuring the two Shredders, Utrom is worse by a landslide, enough so that I'm dubious that Tengu really stands out on his own.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#100945: Nov 26th 2017 at 11:36:20 PM

I mean Chrell was a galactic conquerer and able to access entire galaxies so him having a higher body count and resources than somone who well a powerful demon could only really take over one world rather than multiple is true and Chrell had more time to do evil deeds than Tengu as Chrell was active for centuries well, Tengu was sealed away earlier.

Also trying to turn the entire world into darkness, demons and monsters as well as turning new York into a hell pit as well as the fact that he planned on enslaving humanity is pretty bad even for the 2003 show.

edited 26th Nov '17 11:41:56 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#100946: Nov 27th 2017 at 12:45:10 AM

Abstaining on Bob. His motive for keeping the kid alive seems ambiguous enough that I can't vote either way.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#100947: Nov 27th 2017 at 12:49:57 AM

[tup] Bob and Tengu Shredder.

Well guys I just finished watching the six-episode Amazon video horror anthology television series called Lore based on the the podcast with the same name (which I strongly recommend to any horror enthusiasts) and I believe I found a juicy within the show from the episode "The Beast Within". First lets talk about the episode shall we?

What Is The Episode?

"The Beast Within" is the fifth episode of the series. It takes place In 1589, in Bedburg, Germany, where villagers are convinced that a werewolf is killing women and children only to discover the killer is really one of their own.

Now for the killer himself who proves that sometimes humans are the most terrifying things in this world. I give you Peter Stumpp.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Peter Stumpp, also known as the The Werewolf of Bedburg of Danvill, is a cannibalistic not to mention sadistic Serial Killer who has claim the lives of 18 innocent women and children. He would do so by kidnapping them, bring them to his hideout chop them up with a cleaver, while they are still alive no less, then he would eats the heads and body parts of his victims while he keeps the skulls and bones as trophies. One of his would to be victims 10 year old Greta managed to escape this monster with her life, but was left with a scar on her left hand.

To avert suspicion Peter would convince the people in his village that a werewolf was responsible for all these killings and would lead the villager to wild goose chases for this "werewolf" while he would go to claim more victims.

When he see and recognizes Greta who is now 16 years old, he decides to kidnap her and take her to his hideout where he show her all his victims bones and severed heads, one of which was inside a boiling pot ready to be eaten. Then proceed to kill her first by chopping her scarred arm that he gave her, but fortunately Greta's father arrives just in time to save and Peter Stump was later executed.

Fruedian Excuse? Redeeming Feature? Militating Factors?

Now when Peter gets arrested and put onto trial Peter "confess" to have been turned into a werewolf by the Devil when he was young and that the Devil has "compelled" him to commit these acts. This is utter BS as prior to getting arrest he gleefully admitted to his captive Greta that he took advantage of the werewolf rumors that were being spread by the masses as well the rumors the werewolves are weak to silver which is why he always wore a silver belt so to avoid suspicion. He is only "confessing" to being a werewolf just so that they'll just stop torturing and just kill him, in which in his final moments delivers a sadistic smile at Greta, showing no remorse and enjoying the trauma he gave her and the victims he killed.

Now yes the show Lore is inspired on true events and yes there was a Peter Stumpp in real life but the show itself is still completely fictional including the portrayal of Peter Stumpp played chilling by Adam Goldberg. Plus, we had many candidates introduced here and approved of based on historical people, Amon Goeth being one of the most famous example introduced here. To add, the real life Peter Stumpp had a daughter which was completely Adapted Out in Lore's version, so yes Lore Peter Stumpp has no loved one or redeeming qualities here, with his Freudian Excuse a straight up lie.

Heinousness

Each episode in Lore features a new story with each of them taking place in a different time and setting so there is no narrative Peter has to follow.

Even disregarding this fact, you got a girl who possibly came back from the dead who doesn't even do anything worth talking here, a man suffering from Capgras delusion who kills his wife because he thinks a fairy has possessed her which is bad but thats only one victim compared to Peter's 18 victims, ghost that torments a family to leave their house, and a haunted doll the drive a few people insane but can't qualify for not having a distinct personality.

There is also a Mad Scientist whom performs lobotomy to dozens for people, but fails to qualify because he believed he was actually helping them and was genuinely distraught to learned that all his just turn into empty shells. Plus he never actually killed people, unlike Peter Stumpp.

So its safe to say Peter Stumpp reigns supreme in the heinous department.

Conclusion

I'd give him a [tup]. What about you guys?

edited 27th Nov '17 2:04:40 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#100948: Nov 27th 2017 at 12:50:43 AM

Iv watched the epsiode with Clark Preston from Criminal Minds and feel his current entry is a bit lacking. So this is waht I'll turn it into:

Original : Clark Preston is a crooked real estate developer who hires crooks to commit crimes in neighborhoods so people will leave them and he can buy up their property dirt-cheap, not caring in the slightest about who gets hurt. One of these families, the Mills, had the father and daughter killed and the mother left in a coma. He then recruits the survivor Trevor into his mayoral campaign, to add fuel to his blatantly racist platform. He has him murder entire families—including a baby in one case—then kill drugged black and Hispanic people with the family’s gun and pin it on them.

Rewrite : Clark Preston is a crooked real estate developer and one of the shows most infamous proxy killers. He would hire criminials to commit crimes in neighborhoods so people would leave them and he could buy up their property at a much lower price with him not even caring about who gets hurt in the process. Of these families, one of them the Mills, had the father and daughter killed and the mother raped and beaten which left her in a coma during one of these raids. He later manipulates and recruits the survivor of the family Trevor into his mayoral campaign by brainwashing him with racist ideology as well as help him with his mayoral campaign which he also uses yo fuel his racist agenda. He has Trevor kill entire families of people including young children and even a baby in one case and would have him then kill drugged black and Hispanic people with the family’s gun and pin it on them in the hope of supporting his racist intentions.

I lengthened it a bit but it's smaller than most entries on the Criminial Minds page so I feel its fine.

edited 27th Nov '17 7:23:27 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#100949: Nov 27th 2017 at 1:10:53 AM

Oh yeah [tup] to Peter as you put the efforrpost right well I was typing Prestons rewrite, so I missed it.

So first CM for Adam Goldberg unless I missed somone

When the year is finished I'm going to make a list of actors who got there first CM as a sort of trivia thing.

edited 27th Nov '17 1:16:54 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#100950: Nov 27th 2017 at 2:44:23 AM

[tup] Tarantula, Bob, Peter

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle

Total posts: 326,048
Top