During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
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to everyone I missed").
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What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes we have a few objects/ Genius Loci. About 4 I think.
Vulgyre,The bloom, Ego and House
The important thing about thosse 4 and why there up is that there sadistic pricks but aren't Made of Evil like Wizzaro and do have moral agency.
edited 23rd Nov '17 9:25:44 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Here's my rewrite of enter from Tokumei Sentai Go Busters
original : Enter/Dark Buster started with his "attempts" to appease his Majesty Messiah. This involves causing misery as much as he likes and pulling Unwilling Roboticisation, even on children, using them as human shields in much more frequently than Guirail could even muster and, on top of that, having a blast while doing them with an unabashedly relaxed, but still nasty speech pattern peppered with French phrases. Even after Messiah is apparently destroyed, he seems to escalate his horrors, going so far as to implant himself with two cards containing backups of Messiah's data—one of which also contains Masato Jin's data — in order to become the new Messiah, as well as implant Hiromu with another card to serve as his Soul Jar, forcing the Go-Busters to face the possibility of killing Hiromu in order to stop Messiah once and for all. He even threatens to harm Hiromu so grievously as to put him into a coma, just so that he can keep his Soul Jar alive without worrying about Hiromu attempting to off himself — assuming the card would let him do so.
Rewrite : Enter/Dark Buster started with his "attempts" to appease his Majesty Messiah. This involves causing misery as much as he likes and pulling Unwilling Roboticisation, even on children, using them as human shields while having a blast while doing all of this with an unabashedly relaxed, but still nasty speech pattern peppered with French phrases. Even after Messiah is apparently destroyed, he attempts to revive him before later deciding that he would be much beter at the job then his lowly creator and escalates his horrors, going so far as to implant himself with two cards containing backups of Messiah's data—one of which also contains Masato Jin's data — in order to become the new Messiah, as well as implant Hiromu with another card to serve as his Soul Jar, forcing the Go-Busters to face the possibility of killing Hiromu in order to stop Messiah once and for all. He even threatens to harm Hiromu so grievously as to put him into a coma, just so that he can keep his Soul Jar alive without worrying about Hiromu attempting to off himself — assuming the card would let him do so.
edited 23rd Nov '17 10:33:26 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Do you want me to rewrite this on his page or is it fine as is as he never wanted to love her and had that forced on him v.I.a. the tiararoid card :
Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Invoked through a Messiah Card. Thanks to Tiararoid Enter can feel love and came to have brotherly feelings for Escape. So he hates her copies because they aren't the same as her. It's complicated
I Also added him to drafts.
edited 23rd Nov '17 10:43:49 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Uh ravok, polar phantom and me also added
votes. So that total is incorrect
It's actually 8
and 4
. The reason I up voted him is that plenty of other entities from the black lagoon aren't as bad as him or have shown the capacity to be good even other Dopplegangers created the same way. So in my mind that's more than enough to be considered agency if others can make a choice to be good.
Heres stellavores argument for his inclusion:
Here's where I stand as far as Döppel Dale's agency is concerned: yes, he was created by BOB in the Black Lodge. But Dougie was created by one of the two as well, and while he may not have been a good "person", he wasn't a full-blown bad guy. The same goes for Döppel/Tulpa Diane. She was working with Mr. C, but also tried to resist her nature. Although that may be because she shared the real Diane's memories. But Mr. C — replicated from Cooper, who practically radiates goodness — revels in his malevolent nature. He doesn't have the excuse of being possessed by BOB, either, because he wasn't truly possessed. BOB just let him go around on a crime spree so that he could gorge himself on the garmonbozia left over, but needed him to get around. Despite taking matters into his own hands in the finale. Yeah ... it's complicated
EDIT : Made a mistake as there are still just 4 down votes. Fixed it
edited 23rd Nov '17 11:25:13 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."To be honest... Stellar says essentially everything I have to say on Doppel Dale. I don't think coming from the Black Lodge is necessarily an absolute compromise to his agency.
Any other late votes for the Doppelganger? The margin's too narrow to let him up at the moment.
edited 23rd Nov '17 11:19:13 AM by Scraggle
Abstaining on the Doppelganger.
So I had a look at the related pages for Evil Weapon... and and it isn't linked at all on any of the Complete Monster subpages. So... I guess no currently-recorded monster either is or interacts with an evil artifact?
...
I'm sorely tempted to create such a being in one of my own worlds.
Onimar-Synn and Aion.
Yep, we have a bunch more nasty villains to get through in the Marvel and DC verses I'd say. It's just a matter of finding them.
Enter is one of the few villains I can think of whose moral agency is compromised towards being good. That is, he falls in love with Escape as a result of taking in human emotions of love in an attempt to become the "perfect human", taking as much data on humanity as he can. It's his only problematic moment and it's not from him, he doesn't like it, he never intended to make himself fall in love and was very dismissive of her beforehand and doesn't look back on it when he decides to move on.
I'm still working on Exiles and King Hyperion, by the way, Polar.... apologies for not getting back to you on that for such a long while. The series not exactly being...that engaging alongside a leage dollop of other stuff on my to-do sort of complicates things.
edited 23rd Nov '17 11:30:28 AM by Scraggle
So new better amount : 13
and 3
With the switches and new up votes. I checked and Tommy Fresh did indeed up vote him previously but 43110 did not, so this is the proper amount now.
Hope what are you talking about. You wrote him up yourself and he's now in the video game monster page.
edited 23rd Nov '17 12:43:16 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I'll abstain from voting on the entries from the last two pages, not enough knowledge.
So even though Wizzro failed dismally as a nominee, that now makes me curious. ARE there any intelligent artifacts that made the cut? I didn't see Soul Edge, and that's the only artifact villain that I know of offhand.