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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#99476: Nov 12th 2017 at 5:53:57 PM

@Polar Phantom Interesting. So if they avoid forcing people who don't want to be a part of an experiment cannot count at all huh.....What if Alexander Mc Evil actually request one of the guys that I mentioned to be his own test subject but this guy seems pretty okay with it due to his blind dedication for his own country? And also, one of the test subject himself seems got an okay treatment but ended up hating his powers....What do you think about that?

edited 12th Nov '17 5:56:11 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#99477: Nov 12th 2017 at 5:58:25 PM

I said this before, but right now I've got my nomination ready for Blaise Debeste from Ace Attorney: Investigation 2.

Who is what does he do?

Blaise was the Chief Prosecutor during the events of the game and one of the main villains. Giving out orders to evaluate all the prosecutors all currently residing under his command, Blaise became a thorn to Edgeworth's side by having his prosecution skills questioned. This may look like an attempt to straighten up the Prosecution Office, but actually an attempt to weed out any threats against Blaise.

Blaise became the Chief Prosecutor after having the assistance of the body double of Diang-Huang, Patricia Roland and Sirhan Dogen in murdering the actual Diang-Huang and then faking it by making it look like a presidential kidnapping. Before that, he planned to kill Sirhan Dogen to cover-up the crime, but thanks to his acolyte he was able to escape them. Thanks to that incident and the incompetence of the body double, the country he leads fell into massive economic crisis along with he smuggling ring in the first game.

Blaise afterward use his power to start committing illegal activities like blackmailing, forgery, kidnapping, framing, black marketing evidence and murder either through his hands or by his accomplices. When another prosecutor name Jill tried to expose him after he also got her boyfriend killed because he witnesses the presidential assassination, Blaise kills him and tries to frame an amnesiac Kay Faraday (the player's assistance) and then using that as leverage to disbar Edgeworth.

When Edgeworth was sent to prison for the charges place to him by Blaise, he taunts him and subtle confessing that he's the true perpretrator. When Edgeworth was closing in revealing the truth of the entire case, Blaise immediately emotionally abuse his son by revealing that he arranges his career through bribery and blackmailing his superiors to give him a high position and then calling him worthless. This drives him to a state of confusion and depression. This was all to keep him from telling crucial information to indict him as the killer.

Once he gets caught for his crime, Blaise tries to blackmail the judge of the trial of one of his accomplices (Patricia) to give a non-guilty verdict while disposing evidence related to the crime. When his son comes in to present part of the evidence, Blaise taunts him and tries to send him back to a state of turmoil to keep him from talking. After saving the judge's son who was Blaise's leverage, he finally gets sent to jail after all his atrocities.

Heinousness:

Blaise has one of the highest body count in the entire series, responsible for multiple crimes like assassination and forging evidence himself to falsely convict innocent defendants to save himself. He even cause an economical issue all for more power by having the president of that country assassinated and then placing an incompetent criminal in charge which help with the smuggling ring from the first game. Blaise also has been running his crimes for more than 12 years which easily surpass many of the other villains. And lastly Blaise is the only criminal in the series that we see on screen abusing his family member, Morgan Fey and anyone similar only mentions, but Blaise does it on his son on screen.

Mitigating Factor:

The one thing people say is offscreen villainy, but much like the rest of the villains in Ace Attorney, you need to uncover the entire crime. Blaise's crime are uncovered bit by bit throughout the game, and you see clear evidence of what he did. The blackmarket, the bodies of his victims, and plenty of on-screen bastardness throughout. All of this and the fact Redd White got in after taking a new look in offscreen villainy, shows Blaise is a keeper.

Final Verdict:

If you think characters like Engarde or Von Karma is bad, this guy makes them look like saints.

edited 12th Nov '17 6:04:43 PM by TheImmortalAngelNewton

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#99478: Nov 12th 2017 at 6:00:02 PM

I could swear he's come up before.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#99479: Nov 12th 2017 at 6:01:57 PM

[up] Last year, but back then the main reason he wasn't consider was offscreen villainy. One person told me the standards of that has change quiet a bit since then.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#99480: Nov 12th 2017 at 6:04:42 PM

We've discussed and voted him down before. I see no new evidence.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#99481: Nov 12th 2017 at 6:05:56 PM

[up]I presented an argument against the main reason he was downvoted. Essentially the reason you said why shouldn't count, I'm trying to debunk it.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Animeking1108 Since: Jan, 2010
#99482: Nov 12th 2017 at 6:14:49 PM

I was wondering if this quote for Hojo could qualify for the Quotes page?

Hojo: "My son needs power and help... That's the only reason."
Cloud: "Your son?"
Hojo: "Ha, ha, ha... But he doesn't know it. Ha, ha, ha, HA! HA! HA! What will Sephiroth think when he finds out I'm his father? He always looks down on me. HA! HA! HA!"
Cloud: "Sephiroth is your son!?"
Vincent: "...?"
Hojo: "Ha, ha, ha. I offered the woman with my child to Professor Gast's Jenova Project. When Sephiroth was still in her womb, we took Jenova's cells. Ha, ha, ha!"
Vincent: "You..."
Cloud: "I can't believe you're the one that did this illusionary crime against Sephiroth."
Hojo: "Hee, hee, hee! You're wrong! It's my desire as a scientist! Hee, hee, hee!"
Vincent: "... I was... wrong. The one that should have slept was you, Hojo!"

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#99483: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:36:45 PM

[up]sounds like For Science! rather then this trope.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#99484: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:20:09 PM

I'm not seeing a new argument presented there. Offscreen villainy remains disqualifying.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#99485: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:37:07 PM

[up] Except I mentioned that Blaise's crime are on-screen. Many other Complete Monster in the series are more off-screen then him. Engarde, and Alba comes in mind. Also his crimes are far worse then these two.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#99486: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:55:00 PM

[tup] Mertol

Gonna wait for other arguments on Blaise.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#99487: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:25:40 PM

Gileadman 2002 was an alternate account of Monsterhunter 2002, btw.

He was bounced already, but yeah.

Shadow?
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#99488: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:48:24 PM

Wait....Monsterhunter got banned or no?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#99489: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:51:12 PM

Yes. For never following the rules. He ban evaded.

Yada yada. Just noting this to watch out for more evaders(likely with a similar username, grammar, and tactics) so we can report them as they come up. That was the only reason I brought it up.

And I really need to stop skimming this topic, and I apologize for that. >.<

Shadow?
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#99490: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:57:26 PM

Oh, goody. Let's hope he doesn't try and take Witch's path.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#99491: Nov 12th 2017 at 11:14:34 PM

Oh I was wondering about Gileadman as his effort post format is identical to monster and there's something very similar to monster hunter in that odd, excited tone as well as begging for votes which well other users just ask for more votes, he begs for them. Hopefully unlike witch of the absolute he doesn't keep coming back, only to get banned over and over again.

edited 13th Nov '17 12:59:35 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#99492: Nov 13th 2017 at 12:21:13 AM

Yea....Other than ban evading things, I wonder why Witch of The Absolute got banned in the first time actually? I'm pretty curious with this user

Also, back on topic....I think I found some quotes for CM. Just wait until I got home since I'm at college right now

edited 13th Nov '17 12:21:58 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Wuz Since: Jun, 2013
#99493: Nov 13th 2017 at 2:13:48 AM

As the former effortposter for Blaise, I had never quite understood the arguments for Offscreen Villainy. His only real crime that could be disqualified as offscreen was his other corruption works during his time in his position. But what is shown on screen is enough to place him at a high heinousness level.

However, I won't vote on him this time due to conflict of interest.

edited 13th Nov '17 2:14:15 AM by Wuz

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#99494: Nov 13th 2017 at 2:29:06 AM

That's what I notice which is why I became hesitant. Once one person gets downvoted, it's hard to bring them up again to be considered. However, I was hoping the way people see certain standards like offscreen villainy could mitigate the arguments against.

Also a pic for the page.

Lucius Wagner: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lucius/images/a/a3/SonOfTheDevil.png/revision/latest?cb=20170902113010

edited 13th Nov '17 2:36:00 AM by TheImmortalAngelNewton

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#99495: Nov 13th 2017 at 3:15:12 AM

Wait, if monsterhunter got banned, does that mean Fanfic!Palpatine has to be cut, or did he get enough votes that he can stay?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#99496: Nov 13th 2017 at 3:24:24 AM

I don't think he needs to be cut as he got enough votes.

edited 13th Nov '17 3:28:41 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#99497: Nov 13th 2017 at 3:30:50 AM

So what does this mean for the fanfic version of frieza that they proposed? He got quite a few [tup] votes, but now that they have been banned, they can't make a write up.

jjj
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#99498: Nov 13th 2017 at 3:33:33 AM

I'm back from college. Anyways.......as I promised, I would love to add some quotes for CM and here it is:

Since Vicus from Jericho is approved. Does this quote fit with CM material or no?

Father Paul Rawlings: Governor Vicus! We've been sent to release you from this prison! Let us go so that we can complete our mission and end the nightmare for you. For all of you!
Vicus: Release me? Release me!? Why would I want you to do that? We have found Elysium, have we not? Where we can feast and fuck and kill, and find no consequences? We are not prisoners here! This is freedom, absolute! And you my welcome visitors, are sports. Let the game begin!
Governor Cassus Vicus,,Clive Barker's Jericho

And how about this one?

Professor Clover: Are you shocked, phantom thieves?
Kaitou Joker:What are you...
(Suddenly an explosion occurs and the two Phantom Thieves heard and saw it)
Kaitou Joker: Spade! Queen!
Professor Clover: Your allies are dead.
(Suddenly Joker went angry)
Professor Clover: What a fine look on your face. Hate me! Despise me!
Shadow Joker: Even sacrificing your own underlings...why?!
Professor Clover: I have acquired everything. I have no need of an organization now. Envy me for my power to hold the world in my grip, phantom thieves! Hahahahaha.
Professor Clover,,Kaitou Joker

So any opinion on these quotes?

edited 13th Nov '17 3:40:17 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#99499: Nov 13th 2017 at 3:41:58 AM

[up][up] Well, if somebody can confirm the "character" was effortposted correctly, then perhaps they can write it up. Seems most logical.

Shadow?
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#99500: Nov 13th 2017 at 4:24:48 AM

@Elfenlied: Quite frankly, at this point I think you just make the EP for that scientist and let us decide from that. There's only so many times I can answer these questions before they just become meaningless.


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