During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Let's get this out of the way.
- Lady of Csejte (also known as Blood Countess) (2015): Countess Elizabeth Bathory is a wealthy noblewoman whose courteous demeanor masks a sadistic monster. Taking in orphaned children under the guise of providing them with a home, the Countess in truth imprisons them in her underground cellars, where they are subjected to a series of grotesque tortures and mutilation until they die from their injuries, with the Countess having inflicted this fate upon hundreds of victims. When one child, Mischa, discovers her ledger where she keeps illustrations of her tortures, Bathory murders a cook to keep him from learning the truth, then imprisons Mischa within her cellars, intending to torture him later. Later confronting Mischa's sister, Aletta, who had learned of Bathory's crimes, Bathory gleefully admits to having forced Aletta's sister, Katja, to partake in her horrific activities. Later capturing Aletta, Bathory attempts to butcher her as well, and fatally wounds Mischa before finally being subdued.
edited 8th Nov '17 1:53:07 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?You know what? I've also thought that about a Show Within a Show.
Now, I think I agree with the idea that if it's fleshed out enough such that it could stand out on its own, it would be worth a look to see if it had a candidate.
However, we have no real precedent for that... but maybe that'll change soon?
Oh, sorry, Scraggle, I completely forgot about Mendoza! What a dolt I am!
The reason I brought it up was because, again, Candle Cove doesn't have any candidates in the main universe, but the way they describe the Skintaker as he appeared in the fictional TV show, he seems like a character who'd merit at least a discussion here if the show were real. I'm not proposing Skintaker, just saying that if shows-within-shows aren't off the table, he may be at least worth looking into.
Well... this is awkward.
I just realized that I made an effortpost around half a year ago, got a candidate approved (The villain of a Super Mario 64-based fangame)... and simply forgot about him until now. The effortpost is right here: [1]
I have no real idea how or even why I forgot about him, but Rashay just kind of slipped my mind for whatever reason. So with the linked effortpost as a quick refresher, is everyone okay if I give him a writeup?
Hesitant yes on Joanna Wise on the proviso there's no reset. I'm not fully convinced she stands out enough for the Buffyverse, especially given the suggestion that she's hammed to high hell on top of it. However, I can't recall a villain having that much impact on the supernatural community as well as the human community without some form of cop-out/mitigating factor occurring, so that tips me to yes.
edited 8th Nov '17 4:38:36 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.@Fried Warthog: Go for it. He was voted up pretty unanimously so it should be fine.
Regarding Show Within a Show examples, I don't really think they would count. If they aren't even real in the context of the story then I don't think there's much point. And iirc, the Skintaker from Candle Cove isn't really given much of a personality and is described a bit too vaguely in terms of actions.
to Ramal and from the sounds of it Nergal (though I agree we need a proper effort post first).
Out of curoisty what ever happened about Tzimizce? I remember he got enough votes, but then he seemed to be forgotten.
As for Show Within a Show candidates, yeah I have agree, they're not real inverse so they lack moral culpability. The only way I could see them counting if it was a case of them discovering they were fictional and being offered a choice to stop, but then carrying on reguardless.
edited 8th Nov '17 4:45:07 PM by MGD107
- Madman Chronicles: The Video Killer is a serial killer who records his murders and posts them online. He is suspected to have killed over 100 people over the course of a year, with the police unable to catch him due to his habit of constantly changing his MO, as well as him always committing the murders when there are no witnesses around. Throughout the film, he murders various people, and kidnaps a girl named Kelly Wells after killing her mother. He locks Kelly up in his basement with another girl named Jennifer Abaid, with it being revealed that he occasionally kidnaps girls and locks them up for long periods of time before killing them. Jennifer states that there were several other women down there, but that he killed them all over time. The killer eventually murders Jennifer, and steals clothing from a home to force Kelly to wear, stabbing an officer in the neck on the way out.
Do I pothole Cop Killer and Slashed Throat for what he does to the officer? He technically doesn't slit his throat, he stabs him in the neck, and it's not made clear if he dies or not.
jjjIf Show Within a Show examples don't count, should we cut this?
- Are You Afraid of the Dark?: "Margot", from season 5's "The Tale of the Night Shift", is a teenage girl who gets a job as a nurse at a hospital working on the night shift. We find out that "Margot" is actually a sadistic, ancient vampire who spends his time feeding on the hospital's staff and patients, one of whom is a young boy in a wheel chair, and attempting to turn them into his vampire slaves. When confronted by the episode's protagonist Amanda and her friend Colin, the vampire compares a hospital to a candy shop for him. When Amanda's recently turned friend Felix tries to help Amanda, the vampire attacks him too. During the climax of the episode, the vampire chases Amanda to the roof of the hospital and lifts her up, planning to drop her off and lick up what's left, all while relishing Amanda's screams, before deciding the old-fashioned way is a better way to kill. Even in this Nightmare Fuel-filled series, "Margot" stands out.
The entire series is a Show Within a Show.
edited 8th Nov '17 6:08:41 PM by ChaoticQueen
Alright, time for a late writeup.
- Super Mario 64: Last Impact: Rashay is a snarky, cruel moon spirit who seeks to force the moon to crash into the Mushroom Kingdom, and kill everyone on the planet solely for the thrill of it. After revealing his presence near the end of the game, he kidnaps Princess Peach and forces Mario to exchange a large amount of Power Stars for the Princess to ensure her safety. After infiltrating his Moon Cellar, where at one point Mario is forced to fling himself through painful lava for Rashay's amusement, Mario fights Rashay only to find out that he can't be hurt through conventional means. Upon this revelation, Rashay defeats Mario and continues to viciously beat the fallen plumber even after his loss purely out a deranged sense of bloodlust.
So yeah... kinda curious as to if this would go in the video games or fanworks section since it's both a full-fledged video game and a fan effort.
Alright, well this one had me seriously questioning the author's sanity—it is the dude who wrote Corpse Party after all—but a candidate's a candidate so here we go.
What's the work?
Dolls Fall is a horror manga with a bit more loli-focused eroguro than I'd like, anyways... Meiri Chibana is a recently orphaned girl whose parents and younger brother died in a mysterious fire. She's brought to an orphanage with a peculiar form of contract, that is to say, one is made with blood, from each girl who joins. She rooms with two other girls, the magical girl-obsessed Louise Warifu and the jaded but secretly sweet Mimi Hinawa. Anyways, the seemingly perfect orphanage houses a dark secret, as indicated by the disappearences of girls and a priest telling Meiri to run from the town. (Whaddya know? They make kids sign with their fucking blood.)
Who is Headmistress Chloe? What has she done?
The seemingly kind and loving head of the orphanage is really a perverted sociopath. When Mimi, who has trouble trusting adults due to an abusive home, throws a dress Chloe made for Mimi back at her, Chloe plays it cool but darker thoughts brew. Later that night Mimi feels bad and goes to apologize but Chloe doesn't tolerate "bad girls" and has a masked man brutally drag her off into the night with a hooked weapon... with it dug into her eye. Soon we find out Chloe is responsible for the titular, "Dolls Fall", a depraved spectacle where the spirit of the witch Chloe worships chooses one girl, who has done something "bad" and will kill them in a week, lest the girl murder someone else. While Meiri is stumbling around Chloe's office, she comes across a secret room with articles about girls being orphaned. Spying through a hole in the floor she sees the horrific sight of Chloe bathing in the blood and intestines of Mimi, whose brutalized, wheezing body she perversely cuddles, before bursting out laughing. From the wall of orphaned girls on the wall we see Mimi—along with many others—with their eyes crossed out, indicating Chloe has had many, many victims.
When Meiri tries to escape, one of the orphanage workers captures them at gunpoint and brings them back to Chloe. Chloe gives them a creepy Motive Rant about how she intends to raise proper ladies and kill any who fail to meet her expectations and... licks Meiri's ear... because she's a sick psycho. To punish Meiri for trying to escape, she forces her to clean up Mimi's blood and guts. We find out the contract Chloe made the girls sign makes escaping from the orphanage impossible and that she has any girls who flee into the forest hunted and shot to death. Recording the girls' confessions to a priest, Chloe uses this to reveal who may have seen the witch in Dolls Fall and tries to get the girls to turn against each other, hoping for more blood to bathe in. She also, just to be a Jerkass, makes the girls form a choir and has Meiri sing a song her school choir happened to have been singing when her house burned down, causing Meiri to puke. After one girl goes insane after seeing the witch and is forced to be attacked by the other girls, the insane girl is thrown out a window and a wound leaving her intestines exposed. Chloe because she wasn't twisted enough yet, starts eating them while she's still alive.
Later on, we get some backstory on Chloe. She was an orphan in an orphanage led by a woman who was driven mad by a man with a strange box (containing the witch organ Chloe uses for Dolls Fall) and she began killing kids under her care. Chloe was aroused by the death, began helping the woman kill orphans and when she was hung, took the witch organ to Japan to feed it with virgin screams and remain eternally young by bathing in blood for a century. When two reporters come to town, we also find out Chloe has been renting her orphans to the townsfolk to use in creepy sex rituals. After the reporters upload the videos of her crimes to the internet, Chloe goes ballistic and after she's threatened by other cult members holding the witch's other organs, she decides to kill all the orphans, then has her staff kill themselves. In the final chapter, we find out Chloe had manipulated one of the girls into working under her, whom she had used to murder the families of girls with the power the witch needed. At the last minute her daughter turns against her and slits her throat. Although a sequel is planned, Chloe for all intensive purposes appears to be dead.
Heinousness?
Sets it, she's killed countless kids over the past century. The witch is only able to kill during Dolls Fall from Chloe's aid and Chloe's orphanage leader, Paula/Lizzie, has nowhere near Chloe's body count. I've heard this manga is in a shared universe with Corpse Party but even there, the ghosts aren't responsible for as many deaths as Chloe.
Mitigating factors?
One staff member at the orphanage pities Chloe for having seen her friends get killed. Chloe... laughs this off and reveals she felt arousal at their deaths and unlike the maddened Paula, began serving the witch out of her own free will. On that note, nothing to imply genuine loyalty, just a love of death and the chance to remain forever young.
Verdict
A manga I'd like to forget but a keeper nevertheless.
edited 8th Nov '17 10:04:47 PM by 43110
Hey....What did I miss? Also, I heard that the "Show within the Show" example can't count. Now this is a bit awkward for me since I'm not sure what are your guys opinions if a character in question was in a game mod for a certain game actually?
And speaking of Corpse Party....I always thought that Yuuya Kizami could count actually....But given some of his tropes that describe him.....Yea
edited 8th Nov '17 10:14:31 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

Welp. With all the rewrites and expansions and stuff (plus Lighty's batch, Scraggle's batch, and assorted others), this will very likely be a 40+ entry week.