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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Voyd211 (Edited uphill both ways)
#99126: Nov 8th 2017 at 9:53:32 AM

Did someone say that they thought sleeping with someone disqualified a character?

I'd like to point out Fantomas, Swartt, and that Beadie asshole that was mentioned some pages back. All three have wives/"lovers" who, while not specifically targeted as their victims, weren't exactly safe from them either.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#99127: Nov 8th 2017 at 9:58:40 AM

[up] No, completely the opposite. I know there's nothing to disqualify Swartt in particular considering he's completely and utterly apathetic to his mate dying and leaves their child to die on the side of the road not long after.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#99128: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:01:41 AM

[up][up]I Never said that. I said the exact opposite of that. Hell my own next candidate has mistresses and concubines and sleeps with them but never shows them any love, so is still a keep.

edited 8th Nov '17 10:16:54 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#99130: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:13:22 AM

Okay, here's Grand King Ghidorah's entry, since I was given the go ahead, sorry if it's a bit long, Grand King Ghidorah IS a major villain in this story and one of the ones with the most focus:

  • The Bridge: Grand King Ghidorah, Godzilla's Arch Enemy and planet killing space dragon who sees himself as superior to everything else that lives and thus entitled to torture, destroy, and kill anything he desires. For eons he has traveled the universe, destroying civilizations and devouring the souls of his victims (including children) to state his sadism and increase his power, considering their tortured screams that form his signature cackle his masterpiece symphony. While his normal method is whole sell destruction, Ghidorah sometimes takes the time to use his Psychic Powers to Mind Rape a civilization into destroying itself or pretending to be a pawn of alien invaders. During his attack on the then peaceful Xilians, he seemingly killed Monster X's wife, Controller 011, and paused just long enough to savior his pain before attempting to kill him as well. Afterwards, Ghidorah has spent every second the two of them are together making X's life a living Hell in whatever way he can, in hopes of unleashing Kaizer Ghidorah upon the universe, seeing him as a superior potential world killer to himself. When brought into Bagan's Villain Team Up, the only thing the Mad God can offer the planet killer is more worlds to destroy. When finally set loose on Equestria, he quickly kidnaps innocent ponies, brainwashes Starlight Glimmer into a weapon against Godzilla Jr. with intent to cause the King of the Monsters to enter his potentially world ending Meltdown state, and proceeds to Mind Rape Celestia out of boredom until Luna intervenes. Using his kidnapped ponies as bait, he then forces Monster X to become Kaizer Ghidorah and leaves him to maul his best friends while Ghidorah goes to take his revenge on Junior, attempting to kill Junior by dropping him from orbit. After being fatally wounded, Ghidorah's final act is to attempt to take Junior, Xenilla, and all of Equestria down with him using a Wave Motion Gun powerful enough to level a continent out of spite. Even Ghidorah's own brother DesGhidorah is not safe from Grand King Ghidorah's evil, as by the planet killer's own admission Ghidorah fully intended to kill him himself one day. Driven by sadism and a twisted God Complex, Grand King Ghidorah proves himself to be every bit as vile as his cinematic counterparts.

edited 8th Nov '17 10:26:57 AM by Godzillawolf

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#99131: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:22:06 AM

[tup] Ramal.

One correction: at the end you call him Grang King instead of Grand King.

edited 8th Nov '17 10:24:35 AM by TommyFresh

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#99132: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:27:42 AM

[up] Fixed.

Also, couldn't figure out a way to mention his desire to create or become something to kill Reijuu/Bagan, and wasn't sure if it was even important for this particular entry.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#99133: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:48:45 AM

Should Ghidorah go to My Little Pony Fan Works; the main Fan Works page for Crossovers, or both?

Also, it needs to be cut by around 1/5, at least.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#99134: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:51:07 AM

[up] the Bridge is a My Little Pony/Godzilla crossover, so not sure.

As for cutting, see anything that looks superfluous? Grand King Ghidorah is one of the major villains of the story so it was kind of hard to make it that short to begin with.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#99135: Nov 8th 2017 at 10:54:52 AM

Id say just put it in crossovers like we did with Palpatine from that Halo/Star wars fanfic

edited 8th Nov '17 10:55:23 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#99136: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:01:34 AM

I'd say just put it under the Crossover section, I don't quite understand why entries go on multiple pages in the first place.

rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#99137: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:21:42 AM

Has anyone reserved discussion for American Horror Story: Cult yet? If not, I'd like to do so.

Also, is it possible for a character to qualify in a work-within-a-work? Like, the main storyline has no candidates, but a show that the characters watch has one that'd potentially qualify as one in the universe of said fictional show? For example, the story Candle Cove doesn't have any complete monsters, but the fictional Candle Cove show discussed within the story describes the Skintaker character in a way that'd suggest that he'd potentially count if this was a real show.

edited 8th Nov '17 11:27:07 AM by rosewood47

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#99138: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:22:36 AM

[tup]Ramal, Moriarty and Wise.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#99139: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:27:03 AM

[up][up] I...don't quite know the answer to works-within-works. Has that ever come up before?

As for Ghidorah, please add to the Drafts page and I'll try to play around with it.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#99140: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:28:17 AM

Yeah.

I'd say 'don't' in that end. What's the purpose? It's just silly.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#99141: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:29:18 AM

[up][up][up][up]I guess somone from a work within a work could count but we would need to take it as the heinousness standerd of that show within a show rather than the actual series.

[down]I mean with candle cove they go into detail and turn it into like an entire part of the show, so it is fleshed out but I still have no idea whether it could stand on its own.

edited 8th Nov '17 11:41:23 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#99142: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:32:24 AM

I don't really think a character from a show-within-a-show could really count unless it's really fleshed out to be sort of a work in its own right. No qualifiers from that sort of thing yet.

Except Mendoza. Easy, easy, easy keep. Clearly.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#99143: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:34:58 AM

[up]Okay, added it to the draft page.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#99144: Nov 8th 2017 at 11:53:12 AM

I got it down to around 340-345...lemme see if I can get someone else to help.

  • The Bridge: Grand King Ghidorah is Godzilla's Arch-Enemy and sees himself as superior to everything else that lives, and thus entitled to torture, destroy, and kill. For eons he has traveled the universe, destroying civilizations and devouring the souls of his victims—including children—both For the Evulz and to increase his power, relishing in their tortured screams. Besides his typical destruction, Ghidorah sometimes takes the time to use his Psychic Powers to Mind Rape a civilization into destroying itself, or pretends to be a pawn of alien invaders. During his attack on the then-peaceful Xilians, he seemingly killed Monster X's wife, Controller 011, and paused just long enough to savor his pain before attempting to kill him as well. Afterwards, Ghidorah has constantly made X's life a living hell in whatever way he can, in hopes of unleashing Kaizer Ghidorah upon the universe, seeing him as a fellow destroyer. When brought into Bagan's Villain Team-Up, the only thing the Mad God can offer the planet killer is more worlds to destroy. When finally set loose on Equestria, he quickly kidnaps innocent ponies; brainwashes Starlight Glimmer into a weapon against Godzilla Jr., intending to cause Godzilla to enter his potentially world ending Meltdown state; and proceeds to Mind Rape Celestia out of boredom until Luna intervenes. Using his kidnapped ponies as bait, he then forces Monster X to become Kaizer Ghidorah and leaves him to maul his best friends while Ghidorah goes to take his revenge on Junior, attempting to kill Junior by dropping him from orbit. After being fatally wounded, Ghidorah's final act is to attempt to take Junior, Xenilla, and all of Equestria down with him using a Wave-Motion Gun powerful enough to level a continent out of spite. Even Ghidorah's own brother DesGhidorah is not safe from Grand King Ghidorah's evil, as by the planet killer's own admission Ghidorah fully intended to kill him himself one day. Driven by sadism and a twisted god complex, Grand King Ghidorah proves himself to be every bit as vile as his cinematic counterparts.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#99145: Nov 8th 2017 at 12:27:53 PM

[up] It still looks like a bit of a wall of text, though I believe write ups look quite a little bit longer when they are first written here, and look shorter when they are posted on the drafts page.

This talk makes me wonder: What is the absolute longest entry currently listed? Is it Melkor? I thought at one point that I found one longer than his (not Palpatines), but i'm not sure now.

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#99146: Nov 8th 2017 at 12:41:49 PM

[up] Oh, it's still too long, but it's a start.

Longest current entry? Melkor, Karza, and 616-Red Skull are all around 330. That's nothing compared to Haazheel, which is over 380.

As for Palpatine, I just checked the edit history; before we split his entry by work, it was well over 600!

I think Gihren Zabi's was also fairly long before trimming (even now, it's still around 300).

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#99147: Nov 8th 2017 at 12:47:47 PM

On a related note, I know that the shortest approved entry we have is the Joker from Young Justice: Darkness Falls, as his entry is only 45 words long.

[down] Just did, the Joker's entry is still shorter by four words.

edited 8th Nov '17 1:17:20 PM by chasemaddigan

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#99148: Nov 8th 2017 at 1:03:05 PM

[up]Look up the entry under Elephant Man.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#99149: Nov 8th 2017 at 1:04:22 PM

[tup] to Bathory, Ramal, Moriarty, and Wise.

With more than enough [tup], here Umihebi's write-up:

I also heard Zhang Yong was cut due to many inaccuracies so I decided to look at some candidates that got approved for inaccuracies and there were a few. Luckily they weren't anything major that would disqualify themlike Zhang Yong but some edits would really help. Here is the entries I found:

Revenge of the Green Dragons

  • Chicken Wing serves as The Dragon to the aforementioned Ah Chung, but managed to stand out on his own. First establishing himself by beating a innocent man in a bathroom, when a young Steven stumbles across this, he forces Steven to defecate on the man before he kills him. He then takes the boy to brutally beat up and was about to castrate him before Ah Chung and Paul Wong show up to recruit Steven. He also partook in the gang's mass killings of rivals and innocents and was actually the one who gave Ah Chung the idea for the rival gang member's slow and torturous death. He later helps Ah Chung rob Steven's uncle and gladly follows his boss's order to rape his daughter, and also rapes his wife by his own choice. He later takes their panties as trophies and proudly shows them to Steven, much to the latter's disgust. After Steven nearly got them arrested, Chicken Wing forces Steven's brother, Sonny, to watch as Ah Chung brutally executes Steven.

Assassin's Creed: Forsaken

Here is the changes I want to make. They'll be bolded

  • Chicken Wing serves as The Dragon to the aforementioned Ah Chung, but managed to stand out on his own. First establishing himself by beating a innocent man in a bathroom, when a young Steven stumbles across this, he forces Steven to defecate on the man before he kills him. He then takes the boy to brutally beat up and was about to castrate him before Ah Chung and Paul Wong show up to recruit Steven. He also partook in the gang's mass killings of rivals and innocents and was actually the one who gave Ah Chung the idea for the rival gang member's slow and torturous death. He later helps Ah Chung rob Steven's uncle and gladly follows his boss's order to rape his daughter, as well as his wife. He later takes their panties as trophies and proudly shows them to Steven, much to the latter's disgust. After Steven nearly got them arrested, Chicken Wing prevents his brother, Sonny, from saving Steven being brutally executed by Ah Chung.

Assassin's Creed: Forsaken

I'll send these to the drafts page pronto.

edited 8th Nov '17 1:09:26 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#99150: Nov 8th 2017 at 1:08:19 PM

The discussion dates page says Tyk5919 has AHS reserved.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.

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