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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98952: Nov 5th 2017 at 12:45:51 PM

Okay, got it, Scraggle.

So, 120 words for Seamus?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98954: Nov 5th 2017 at 1:24:25 PM

Just curious, does the link to the work itself count as part of the 120 words?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98956: Nov 5th 2017 at 1:34:47 PM

Got it. How does this look?

Welcome to Halloween Camp: Seamus Pommier is hired by his uncle, the dean of Halloween Camp, as a counselor. Initially seeming to be a mere Jerkass, he shows his true colors when he forcefully stops Ron from comforting his brother, Sammy, threatening physical harm on him. This begins his horrendous verbal abuse of the boys in his cabin, his uncle preventing any attempt at intervention. On Halloween night, Seamus first kills another camp counselor before brutally killing three pubescent boys, then pursuing Ron and Sammy when they escape. When he’s confronted by Lizzy, a counselor he is sexually attracted to, he begins to strangle her. When Ron intervenes, kicking him, Seamus tries to tear his jaw off, even as police threaten to shoot him.

EDIT: Decided to add something

edited 6th Nov '17 7:41:11 AM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#98957: Nov 5th 2017 at 1:35:24 PM

[up]looks good. Add to drafts

By the way watch this space as tommorow or late at night I'll get you an effort-post on vulgara from the fiveman series of Super Sentai who destroyed '999 planets giving him the highest death toll in the franchise's history as well as an attempt on earth just to become immortal.

edited 5th Nov '17 1:41:31 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#98958: Nov 5th 2017 at 1:56:06 PM

[up][up] You've got potholes touching each other, that's called a chainhole and it's against wiki policy. Other than that, good job, writeup is fine.

[down] It's been a policy for as long as I remember. What you're seeing are the ones that weren't caught. Also, you've still got Sadist and The Sociopath touching. Just pick the one that sums him up better and chop the other.

edited 5th Nov '17 2:17:40 PM by 43110

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98959: Nov 5th 2017 at 1:58:29 PM

[up]I have seen happen some other times, actually. Maybe those are leftovers from before that policy?

Which should I take out, then?

[down]Did that.

edited 5th Nov '17 2:11:48 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#98960: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:04:53 PM

Maybe use The Brute around "his true colors".

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#98961: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:23:27 PM

No. Scratch out The Brute entirely — that's in reference to a member of a Five Bad Band, which Seamus is not a part of.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#98962: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:25:46 PM

[up] Wait, if that's the case, then what's the trope for when it's only the one guy?

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98963: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:27:34 PM

I replaced The Brute with The Bully. That good?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#98964: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:28:52 PM

Don't worry about the potholes, dude. I'll fix those up at the end of the week. You're good to just run it to the drafts.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98965: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:30:55 PM

Okay. Still, Seamus is definitely more of a bully than a brute in tropes terms.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#98966: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:40:45 PM

ACW, I replied to your message on Algo. Also if you look at the effortpost, I state why he counts and where that other guy is.

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#98967: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:49:28 PM

Ok so I have a proposed rule change.

"If a video game is based off a film series, but it is clearly separated from the film series itself, and the events from either are never referred to in the future, any CM's in the video game are separate from film series CM's."

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#98968: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:53:23 PM

That honestly just seems like common sense to me. I don't think that's ever been a point of confusion.

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#98969: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:59:56 PM

Yeah, but some people have it confusing, not knowing what to do in that situation. I'm proposing this rule change to avoid that confusion in the future.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#98970: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:01:25 PM

I don't think it's a significant problem. The rare time it comes up, enough of us understand that it can be quickly dealt with.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#98971: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:04:38 PM

If a character is from a videogame adaptation then they go on the videogame subpage. This hasn't really been an issue before.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#98972: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:33:09 PM

Reading r/nosleep again.

Have found two candidates. Will wait for two weeks after the end of each story before making the post for both. One has ended already, of course.

Edit: I think we should establish a general heinous standard for nosleep sometime.

edited 5th Nov '17 4:25:03 PM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#98973: Nov 5th 2017 at 4:11:37 PM

I didn’t see Geostorm, but from what I heard, it had a potential candidate in it that could possibly count.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#98974: Nov 5th 2017 at 4:29:08 PM

[tup] to Seamus.

I propose the Video Killer from Madman Chronicles, a found footage/ mockumentary film:

Who is he and what does he do?

The Video Killer is a serial killer who often tapes his murders and posts them online for the viewing world. It is said that he is estimated to have killed over 100 people.

The film starts out with people talking about his crimes, and it soon cuts to him picking up two hitchhiking girls, whom he shoots and kills. He later breaks into a woman's house and kills her before kidnapping her daughter, Kelly Wells. The killer murders a young woman in a car on his way back to his hideout, and keeps Kelly locked in a basement with another girl named Jennifer Abaid.

Kelly learns from Jennifer that there were other girls locked in the basement, but the Video Killer murdered them all. Jennifer has been locked up for over a month. The killer comes down and strangles Jennifer to death. Later on, as a girl is getting out of a car, the killer goes over to her and stabs her to death.

As suspect Ron Garrison is leaving a hospital after being beaten by a mob due to people thinking he's the killer, the real Video Killer comes up to him and stabs him to death. Meanwhile, Danni Le Clair, the protagonist and one of the officers trying to catch the killer, discovers that he has been in her house and has been stealing her clothes. When she tells her partner Dennis Moore this, he goes outside to tell the station this, calling them from his police car. As he's doing this, the killer comes up to his car and stabs him in the throat before taking off. Danni goes to help him while her husband calls for an ambulance (it's never revealed if he survives or not).

Finally, the Video Killer returns to his hideout. Kelly has managed to escape from her chain in the basement by throwing it over the ceiling boards, jumping from a chair, and snapping it. Kelly manages to kill him with a gun she got, and leaves. On her way out, she calls the police to tell them what happened, but she is than heard screaming for unknown reasons as the movie ends, implying that some other nut may have killed her after she escaped or something.

Heinousness?

The Video killer murders 7 or 8 people onscreen, and is indicated to have killed many more. Jennifer states that there were other girls locked up in the basement that were killed, we see a self help group of people who have lost loved ones to the killer, and one of the characters in the film mentions that he killed her sister. It is stated that he is estimated to have committed over 100 murders.

Aside from his apparently substantial bodycount, there is the way he videotapes most of the murders and posts them online for everyone to see. There's also the fact that he keeps some of his victims chained up in his basement for extended periods of time before killing them. Jennifer states that one girl was down there for 6 months.

His large bodycount, coupled with his methods, makes him seem like a keeper to me.

Redeeming features?

He keeps many of his victims alive in his basement for months, and he gives them meals in surprisingly affable ways. He brings a plate with decent looking food down to Kelly and sets it up on a table with a chair for her, instead of just, you know, throwing crusts of bread and bottles of water down into the basement like many of these freaks tend to do. This decent way of feeding them doesn't really mean anything good in the long run though, as he still plans to eventually kill them. He keeps them alive for varying amunts of time before randomly murdering them. It's never revealed why he keeps them alive for extended periods, as he doesn't seem to torture them.

He gets furious when Kelly refuses to eat, knocking the table over and shouting "Eat!" at her, which is the only time he speaks to her. This shows that he doesn't care if they want to eat, rather, he forces them to.

Other mitigating factors?

He doesn't talk much. He only has a few lines. That said, the police talk about how he seems to be overconfident and have no fear of them, as his kills get more frequent. He is pretty smart for a killer, as he constantly changes the ways he gets his victims and kills them so they have no real consistant way to avoid him, going from picking up hitchhikers to breaking into peoples houses. He also makes sure there are always no witnesses. The people keep talking about how after a full year, they are no closer to catching him than when they started. His videotaping method shows him to be sadistic. He oddly doesn't seem to want to take advantage of the possibility of letting another man get convicted of his crimes so he can get off scot free, as he kills Ron Garrison while videotaping it. He likes to force his female victims to dress up in the clothes that he steals from Danni's home. I wouldn't call him a GDV.

jjj
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#98975: Nov 5th 2017 at 5:00:37 PM

Why WASN'T the archbishop from castlevania made a complete monster? The guy's kinda like Frollo in a way in that he thinks he's doing gods work but causes every tragedy in the series


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