During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Keep in mind Ahament is not the only villain to end up here by accident as Unualaq was meant to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist but comes off as a power hungry madman in the show proper. Its why he is far and wide the least popular of the main Avatar villains as he both lacks the cool factor the others have and is written oddly.
Errol upon getting further opinions.
edited 1st Nov '17 3:25:29 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Huh, seems like I'm outvoted on Paulette. So be it.
Takada.
Joe: Is it stated that he HAS to be an Emotion Eater in order to survive? That makes me a bit wary.
Tak; Anime!"K"; Edgar; Fane; Tony; Toby; Rumpel.
43110: Please add to the drafts.
As for accidental CMs, we have a Designated Hero from Red Zone Cuba.
Huh seems we have a bumper week with like 14 peole already and another 14 pending.
Any Votes on Martin Newman
edited 1st Nov '17 4:53:54 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I only saw a little bit of Missing, but it was enough to get a feel for the character, so
to Martin.
I remember for the longest time I thought Frollo and Lotso’s motives made their actions understandable, but no, they were hypocrites. I think characters like Unnalaq and Ahmanet were written to be empathetic, but it didn’t come off that way in either case.
edited 1st Nov '17 6:04:28 AM by futuremoviewriter
Tweaks to the write-up for captain ruyga from timerager
original : Captain Ryuya, Tatsuya Asami's Identical Grandson (give or take a few dozen "greats"), was the ultimate mastermind behind everything that occurred in the series, from the initial escape of Don Dolneiro to Gien's insanity; he was responsible for the crisis that took place in the finale (he had seen two futures — one in which 1/3 of the 21st century is destroyed and one in which the 31st century ceases to exist). To make matters worse, the only reason he was trying to manipulate everything was that he had received a vision that he would die in both futures.
rewrite : Captain Ryuya is the descendant of Tatsuya Asami who was the ultimate mastermind behind everything that occurred in the series. Helping Don Dolneiro to escape from capitvity and relases of the Londerz prisoners who would wreak havoc on the present, with one even trying to release a virus to posion an entire city. He would later drive Gien who was a 5 year old to insanity and which lead to his death. He was responsible for the crisis that took place in the finale (he had seen two futures — one in which 1/3 of the 21st century is destroyed and one in which the 31st century ceases to exist). Willing to kill billions of innocents to save his own hide, he is everything the timerangers are not.
Addded to drafts. Before any asks ryuya was depicted as selfish and egotistical so is still a keep despite the whole dying thing. one of the main themes of the show is you can choose your own destiney, so he could have avoided it or made a different outcome but instead choose to be a dick and actively tried to create a Bad FUTURE. Still like tomoe, somone might think its mitigating when it isnt so I rewrote it.
edited 1st Nov '17 7:09:13 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Martin. So that's a CM for Keith Carradine (after comine close as Frank) and we have one for John.
Alright, marathon vote time: Yes to Tony, Toby, Solaris, Takada, Edgar, K, Fane, Rumpelstiltskin, Martin, and Tak. No to Joe and Errol/Erol.
And since no one contested it, I think I'll snatch up the discussion date for Freedom Fighters: The Ray right about now.
edited 1st Nov '17 8:26:23 AM by FriedWarthog
Switching to no on the narrator as well, well we do have one victim villains like rich or Otto. They tend to do something spectacularly bad and thinking it over that is not the case here.
edited 1st Nov '17 9:44:16 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."So John Carridine plays heydrich in the movie that went up just this week. So the son gets his first example only a week after his father, strange coincedence.
edited 1st Nov '17 10:04:58 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Here's the Narrator's story
. It's a pretty quick read. I could go either way, myself, but everything combined leads me towards a SLIGHT no.

Holding off on the Mephisto effort-post as I got someone else that has never been discussed before:
What is the work?
Missing 2012 was a short lived 10 episode series which ran in well 2012.The series follows Becca played by Ashley Judd as a widow and retired CIA agent with an teenage son named Michael. In 2001, when Becca and her husband Paul Winston are active CIA agents, he is killed in a car bombing witnessed by their son. In the pilot episode, Michael informs his mother that he has been accepted to a summer architecture program in Rome, Italy. Becca, who now lives an ordinary life running a florist shop, is hesitant to let him go but gives in. After not hearing from him, she receives a call from the architecture school informing her that Michael has moved out of his dorm room, Becca travels to Rome to track him down, but she finds herself in the middle of an international conspiracy involving the CIA and her husband who is discovered to be alive. Becca then teams up with an Interpol agent who was a friend. They work together to find Michael. Meanwhile, Michael meets a Russian girl, Oksana whom he befriends, and they team up to escape.
Who is the villain and what has he done?
Martin Newman played by accomplished actor Keith Carradine. Serves as the true antagonist, Back in the day he was Becca’s CIA handler and mentor who is also Michael’s Godfather. Now retired, he has become an accomplished author of spy novels and lives in blissful peace.
Except that there is a bit more to the story. Martin outside his day job is a criminal mastermind who runs a human trafficking operation, kidnapping young teenagers from Eastern Europe and selling them off to willing buyers, he is also the leader of a rogue group of agents who will do anything for the right price, his alias being suspect zero.
First showing up in episode 4, he helps to join the search for Micheal to throw them of as he was the one who kidnapped him the first place. Michael meanwhile meets Oskana, one of said kidnapped girls. They get along quite while in said capitivity but when Michael starts snopping, Oskana is beaten and bloodied by one of Martin’s goons.
Oskana and Michael later escape using a secret pathway in the building. Meanwhile, Martin Newman is sent to Hungary ‘’thanks’’ to a CIA agent named Dax, where Michael has taken Oksana to a hospital. Later, he reports to azimoff (eastern European crime boss who served as main villain until then when Micchael was revealed as his boss) by saying Michael has been recaptured. It’s revealed that he was kidnapped in an attempt to blackmail the boy’s father into diverting suspicion away from him. Martin Newman later takes Michael and Oksana to Istanbul on the pretence that he is taking them to Becca but Oksana notices his tattoo and Martin warns her to keep quiet or he’ll kill Michael. Basically Michael was the leader as mentioned above and is also responsible for brutalizing her leading to scars that were shown in the previous episodes. She also says she was just one of a train full of girls, so pattern established. His face was covered which is why she didn’t immediately recognize him.
Becca’s husband later shows her pictures of all the stuff that Martin has done over the years which include arms dealing, terrorism and off course human trafficking, basically Martin will for anything for the right price and said pictures move this stuff out of Offscreen Villany as they show destroyed buildings and other stuff.
Alerted that the Becca and Paul (her husband) are on his tail, Martin has one of his lackeys plant contraband in there car and gets Paul arrested while Becca quickly escapes. Martin decides to hire one of his mercenaries to kill Michael, to tie up loose ends as he no longer needs him with the CIA thinking that Becca and Paul are the guilty ones. Michael meanwhile, not being an idiot becomes suspicious of him as he wont let him leave his building.
Martin in the final episodes plans on selling nuclear material to terrorists in the hope of making a quick buck. Paul meanwhile escapes from prison and heads off to stop the exchange while Becca rescues Michael. Becca and Martin later have a shoot out on the top of a building as he tried to get away after the exchange got foiled, with Martin being killed. Hence everyone rejoiced.
Freudian Excuse?
Nothing as he just wants money.
Other redeeming and mitigating factors ?
Nope, he doesn’t care for anyone but himself. Best exemplified by him trying to kill Michael just to tie up loose ends despite him being his godson, who he has known since Michael was a baby.
Heinousness standerd?
Blows everyone away as every other bad guy works for him and have independence that is kinda zero.
He is also much worse than everyone else as he is a terrorist, human trafficking and arms dealer, well the others are just some assassins and a mob boss who kill like one or two people each, compared to him, who runs an empire which has killed or harms hundreds.
Conclusion ?
Keep him and for a short-lived show, its pretty good.
edited 1st Nov '17 3:41:04 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."